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     Yeaaah... I'm not feeling it.
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Jan 28, 2018 02:51
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sebmojo posted:You are insane. MWLL has the advantage over MWO in a shitload of ways but art is not one of them, yea. The only place PGI's mechs really fall down for me is the Clan designs.
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Jan 28, 2018 02:53
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Skoll posted:I absolutely hate the PGI Atlas that everyone seems to love. They made what is supposed to be a terrifying machine look squat and fat. This is downright bizarre, the Atlas in the game is an intimidating machine? If they were slender they'd look too much little Gundams imo
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Jan 28, 2018 03:30
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"Tall" does not inherently mean "slender". Despite its brief screentime, the Atlas from the MW3 intro is probably the most outright intimidating any of its incarnations have managed to be.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:33
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Gwaihir posted:MWLL has the advantage over MWO in a shitload of ways but art is not one of them, yea. The only place PGI's mechs really fall down for me is the Clan designs. Even that varies from mech to mech. I like the Cauldron Born and the Kodiak just fine.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:39
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Cowcaster posted:i always thought the inner sphere/clan balancing dynamic was supposed to be along the lines of imperial guard/space marines where a single space marine grossly outguns a single guardsman but there’s a lot, a lot more guardsmen to go around Imagine if the lore about Imperial Guard was the same as ever "Human wave attacks" etc. But when you try to play it you are only allowed allowed five dudes, and you can't afford the maintenance of your only tank. THEN got put up against the normal standard amount of space marines. That's how Btech shakes out for the players a lot of the time. You hear all about the large battles and IS having "Greater numbers" etc. But when it's your turn it's back to all the "Oh, but it's so EXPENSIVE! You're lucky to even keep half your poo poo running and deserve to be chased to the ends of the galaxy for trying to swipe a single lostech laser." Unless you actually let your players have it too, "But one side has more dudes than the other!" doesn't work for a balance dynamic. Section Z fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 03:40
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What retarded games did your friends con you into playing where y'all fought IS Lance vs equivalent tonnage Clan Star?
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Jan 28, 2018 03:44
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Rygar201 posted:What retarded games did your friends con you into playing where y'all fought IS Lance vs equivalent tonnage Clan Star? Also, obviously a game where you are INTENDED to go toe to toe with the clans wouldn't screw you with materials. But "IS is just lousy with resources, go nuts" vs "You salvaged a GUN!?! Send the contract police!" is quite the mood whiplash in a setting. Even if both are valid in their own goals, it tends to mix the message. Section Z fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 03:46
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Section Z posted:I'm more trying to get across why "Balance with the fact you have reserves!" isn't quite so hot for a broad strokes dynamic with some old fashioned exaggeration. Because chat about "Well Clans have longer range guns anyways" vs "Well, by hex-" isn't quite panning out. Yeah, when you're not controlling things on a strategic level, having way more dudes just means you get shittier stuff on your side. It just doesn't work in a tactical setting.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:49
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Rygar201 posted:This is downright bizarre, the Atlas in the game is an intimidating machine? If they were slender they'd look too much little Gundams imo Strobe posted:"Tall" does not inherently mean "slender". Despite its brief screentime, the Atlas from the MW3 intro is probably the most outright intimidating any of its incarnations have managed to be.  This is always what I pictured an ideal Atlas to be and I don't think I've seen any of the games get it right.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:51
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I mentioned MW3 because its appearance is enough to make a Mad Cat recoil in surprise and backpedal helplessly from it. Intimidation isn't looks alone, and there hasn't been an effective representation of what an Atlas can do psychologically outside of that specific instance that I'm aware.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:53
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Strobe posted:I mentioned MW3 because its appearance is enough to make a Mad Cat recoil in surprise and backpedal helplessly from it. Intimidation isn't looks alone, and there hasn't been an effective representation of what an Atlas can do psychologically outside of that specific instance that I'm aware. The King Atlas in PTN's LP is a pretty good example for non-video media. It was so psychologically devastating that it made the freeborn warriors of the Clan they were fighting completely lose all faith in the Clan way of life and seek them out to surrender and offer their services fighting against their old Clan.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:59
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Strobe posted:I mentioned MW3 because its appearance is enough to make a Mad Cat recoil in surprise and backpedal helplessly from it. Intimidation isn't looks alone, and there hasn't been an effective representation of what an Atlas can do psychologically outside of that specific instance that I'm aware. The MW3 intro and the old MW5 intro are basically it, really. Unless you want to cherry pick specific instances from the novels.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:59
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PoptartsNinja posted:Some of the PGI designs are OK, but others like the Centurion (and their weird flat brick of an Atlas) are mediocre at best. I loving hate the PGI Centurion, they took a tall slender 'Mech and made it fat. They also completely missed the Clan aesthetic, but I've talked about that in other places so I won't bother here. What's truly infuriating about this is that the concept art for the PGI Centurion is perfect. Then they modeled it and turned it into this squat, wide thing. If they'd just modeled the concept art I think most people would love the reimagined Cent.
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Jan 28, 2018 04:05
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Skoll posted:The MW3 intro and the old MW5 intro are basically it, really. Unless you want to cherry pick specific instances from the novels. I've always liked the MW2: Mercs intro the best. Really shows the priorities there: Look at the bright side, kid. You get to keep all the money.
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Jan 28, 2018 04:28
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I would pay for a modern re-skin of both clan MW2 games. They were great for their time but I have no idea how well they would age, but I played them in my really early teens and was Real Bad at them. Oddly, I replayed MW2 Mercs into my late teens but never bothered with the other ones. Anyway, I mentioned that because apparently one of the things you did was trials of position but I never read into or understood what I was actually doing at that age, so something now where I perceive it better and understand whats going on would be really neat, to me. Something that plain works on an operating system made in this century would be enough for me, but given that a legal agreement between Activision and Microsoft necessary for a MW2 product would unseal the Blood Gate and bring forth the Night of Endless Agony I'm not holding my breath. The original MW2 campaigns are a series of disjointed missions or snapshots of the conflict that don't really mesh in a narrative sense, but Ghost Bear's Legacy puts you in a few Trials and locks in your Mech chassis for mission arcs. If you complete the campaign without restarting, there are a few extra 1v1 missions for a bloodname. Good luck with the last mission, or just save your sanity and use freebirthtoad. That said, the fact that the MW5 footage reminds me of the basic flow of the random missions in MW2 Mercs has me tentatively hopeful that some great missions and campaigns could be produced in due time. They wouldn't be made by PGI, of course, but I'd love to see some solid campaign mods like Freespace.
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Jan 28, 2018 04:30
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Q_res posted:What's truly infuriating about this is that the concept art for the PGI Centurion is perfect. Then they modeled it and turned it into this squat, wide thing. If they'd just modeled the concept art I think most people would love the reimagined Cent. Yeah, this is what I was gonna say. Have a look at this bad boy, it's pretty sexy:  Someone hosed up severely to get what we have currently in the game there. Also I am super on board with making custom campaigns for MW5. I have quite a bit of Unreal 4 level design experience, so... we can fix whatever PGI fucks up, as long as the art assets are good. Mod tools are confirmed for the game, so we can just fix the problems ourselves. It's nice when you don't have to do this, like HBS I have faith in not to gently caress it up, but it's comforting to know that if it does happen, we can fix it.
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Jan 28, 2018 04:51
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The only thing that gives me even a morsel of a shred of hope for the PGI MW5 is that it's on Unreal and will be co op.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:11
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Skoll posted:The only thing that gives me even a morsel of a shred of hope for the PGI MW5 is that it's on Unreal and will be co op. Yeah, it's UE4 with 4 person Co-op and Steam Workshop support for mods. As long as they get the foundation right, the mechanics and basic gameplay right, the rest will come with time.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:17
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PGI super hosed with scale and it messed up a whole ton of poo poo. Some of the remodels are rear end, some are great. I think the new Raven looks amazing, and the hunchback is another great looker.  vs  and  vs  I also thought the centurion concept art for MWO was amazing, but what we got in game was awful.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:35
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Cyrano4747 posted:Do you have a source saying that it's bullshit? I'm willing to believe it's a myth, but I've been hearing it pretty consistently for decades now so I'd like to see an interview or something with someone who was involved where they say "no, we wanted them that way from the get go." I would think it would be the other way around: the evidence that no-minimum-range was intended is that that's how they were printed, and despite multiple printings of that book, an official errata sheet for that book which I own, and a revised edition of the book, no change to them was ever made (and as can be seen with the Tactical Handbook, FASA was perfectly willing to correct weapon stats if they were wrong). Where's the evidence that it was ever intended to be otherwise? Even the previous line developer of BT specifically said that he'd never been conclusively shown or told it was a mistake, only that he'd heard the rumour of it. It's just been going around so long that it's taken on a life of its own, but no one has ever been able to prove it; it's always just "I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy's hairdresser's best friend". Same with the rumour about the original Omnimech versions. Xotl fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 06:54
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sebmojo posted:You are insane. Galaga Galaxian linked some pics of the Living Legends mechs, and I did say the Living Legends mechs weren't super-detailed in my post. Just having the art/model assets of the fully usable Living Legends hovercrafts, tanks, artillery, helicopters, fighter bombers, aerospace fighters was my initial hope when HBS Battletech game was announced given how rare & valuable Mechs were in-Battletech game universe pre-clan invasion, most of the enemies you'd encounter/fight would be non-Mech assets as the wave of expendable pawns, with Mechs being the backrow chess superunits. Damnit I hope that last sentence makes sense. Living Legends was/is a community built Crysis Wars mod, and given how hard Living Legends got turbo-boned by PGI, it's amazing Living Legends is still alive and kicking. Most of the effort in Living Legends(LL) went into the larger-scale maps and all the non-Mech vehicles, aircraft & battlearmors you/pilot/fight/ejectfrom/die in battle(instead of the PGI approach of the mech as sole-player entity). The generic looking Mechs in LL were the trade-off for the rest of the depth in LL mod. Given that Living Legends is a community mod & getting approval for asset use from the LL community & long-since vanished LL developers versus the one-stop PGI Mechwarrior license leaseholder thing...yeah no brainer for HBS cross-licensing deal with PGI.
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Jan 28, 2018 07:42
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Well we’re getting artillery and Air support anyway, though I’ll admit I don’t know if there’ll be actual models for the artillery. Plus, there’s the cool side effect of HBS’ tank and vehicle models showing up in MW5. And Hovers are only out because of difficulty programming their movement. So I can’t say I see the benefit using LLs thoroughly lackluster models would provide.
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Jan 28, 2018 07:59
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Q_res posted:What's truly infuriating about this is that the concept art for the PGI Centurion is perfect. Then they modeled it and turned it into this squat, wide thing. If they'd just modeled the concept art I think most people would love the reimagined Cent. I think when the cent was first implemented it was a slim little thing, then they just.. rescaled it to be more squat. It was literally so slim for its relative speed that it was drat near impossible to hit at range. (Of course, it doesn't help that this was the time before engine size limits on mechs..)
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Jan 28, 2018 09:45
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Q_res posted:Well we’re getting artillery and Air support anyway, though I’ll admit I don’t know if there’ll be actual models for the artillery. Plus, there’s the cool side effect of HBS’ tank and vehicle models showing up in MW5. And Hovers are only out because of difficulty programming their movement. So I can’t say I see the benefit using LLs thoroughly lackluster models would provide. Mechwarrior 5 is the best running joke in gaming. Brigador is the unofficial Mechwarrior 5 game that I had been waiting over 15 years for. Agree that LL's art isn't super-detailed and artwork done in 2017/2018 will be much more detailed, would still jump into a LL match anytime vs MWO. Hope that HBS does not run into any major issues polishing up Battletech2018 for release.
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Jan 28, 2018 15:15
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Brigador is fun, but I have no idea how it qualifies as "unofficial MW5 game" beyond involving walking tanks and having a merc element to it.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:13
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Cyrano4747 posted:Brigador is fun, but I have no idea how it qualifies as "unofficial MW5 game" beyond involving walking tanks and having a merc element to it. Great Leader was clearly Victor Ian Steiner-Davion. The orbital defense guns were.....orbital defense cannons. The infantry powered armor was....infantry powered armor. The Spacers were Clanners with advanced everything, Loyalists were Steiner faction, and the Corvids were the obvious author's favorite faction if Brigador was a Battletech novel. Solo Nobre Concern was Marik/Liao in their finest tradition of backstabbing everything/everyone simultaneously. Of course all the above is a joke. Forgot how serious Battletech & Mechwarrior series discussion can be on the internet, and this is my apology for not keeping the super-serious tone. Again, sorry.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:45
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Lol chill out robot friend.
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Jan 28, 2018 20:24
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At some point PGI started designing mechs with hit boxes and density in mind and the mechs took a turn for the worse. This was probably around the introduction of the clan mechs, most of them are fugly as hell. I think the last mech I looked at and thought it looked great was the Urbanmech. They mostly make nearly identical manbots or boxy chicken walkers. Only outlier I can think of off hand was the Uziel, which is like someone looked at a cataphract, thought it looked good, but wondered what it would be like if they made it not good.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:01
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I forgot all about the Resizening and how many mechs that blatantly hosed over.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:05
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Still amazed a Shadow Hawk is taller than an Atlas.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:05
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It mostly hosed the Awesome for some reason. Catapult and that one clan mech with the laser hands benefited massively. I don't think any other mechs were seriously affected though. Edit : oh right. Lights and the shadow hawk. Forgot about them.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:07
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It hosed a lot of the Assaults, almost all of them got super sized. It hosed the Grasshopper, the Thunderbolt, Shadow Hawk, Centurion, quite a few others. The few mechs directly benefitted were the Catapult, Stormcrow, Commando, and Raven. Everything else pretty much got taller, wider, or both, some way more than they should have.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:10
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I guess I'll just be the outlier who thinks that most of PGIs designs are pretty OK. They have some notable stinkers, but for the most part they look like the mechs they're supposed to be and have a consistent style where they all actually look like they're from the same universe. The last bit is important. Compare some of the early BT stuff with the clan era stuff and then with the 3055 TRO era poo poo and the art styles just are so divergent it makes poo poo really bizarre. The aesthetic swings between industrial on through anime mecha and everything in-between. Also the Uziel looks, well, like an Uziel. It was always a wonky looking design. Their version at least kind of slots in aesthetically alongside things like their version of the hunchback, marauder, etc.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:10
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Great Beer posted:It mostly hosed the Awesome for some reason. Catapult and that one clan mech with the laser hands benefited massively. I don't think any other mechs were seriously affected though. Resizing hosed things up because PGI went all  on how they did it. They decided that mechs had to have similar volume:weight ratios, and based the volume off of the prime variants. So, things like the catapult with those huge boxy LRM ears had artificially inflated volumes which means the body gets made proportionally smaller. It also strongly benefited mechs that were boxy. A cube is going to have less surface area (i.e. height and width) for an equal volume than a long rectangle. The mechs that tended to be skinny on one dimension (grasshopper for example, shadow hawk too) ended up really tall for what they're supposed to be. The wide-as-a-barn Awesome also got hosed this way. A far, FAR better way to have done it would have been to base it on surface area rather than volume. Well, that's assuming that they were going to do this numbers based bullshit anyways rather than just making size another lever they could use for balance. but, you know,
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Jan 28, 2018 22:13
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Cyrano4747 posted:I guess I'll just be the outlier who thinks that most of PGIs designs are pretty OK. They have some notable stinkers, but for the most part they look like the mechs they're supposed to be and have a consistent style where they all actually look like they're from the same universe. It is, but they all look like they're from the same manufacturing facility, which sucks. Why the hell did they give nearly every 'Mech two thumbs? It's ugly as poo poo, it's gotta be a bear to figure out how to pick something up using only a joystick and the neurohelmet's mind-reading. Cyrano4747 posted:Resizing hosed things up because PGI went all They also don't know what the Square/Cubed rule is which is why the Atlas, which is four times the weight of the Commando, is also "four times" its size (and winds up something like 16x its volume). Nevermind that 'Mechs are mostly airspace and insulation and the few that aren't (the Assassin. the Spider) are notoriously uncomfortable deathtraps.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:20
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I haven't looked at MWO in years but I'm glad to see they're still designing the game by making a half-baked formula and then plugging everything into excel and implementing whatever comes out the other side. I have fond memories of the time the 'rebalanced' all the pulse lasers to have a consistent statistical progression across sizes (with no regard to how the weapons were used in practice or which ones were even usable to begin with), which required them to nerf one that was already bottom-tier at the time in order to satisfy Paul's fetish for tidy spreadsheets.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:30
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It would have been nice if there was a definite scale for each mech released by FASA instead of that tiny photo released in one of the source books.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:30
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i think that all of flying debris’ concept art for mechs is extremely good, even if pgi’s realization of them as actual 3d models leaves something to be desired 85% of the time
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Jan 28, 2018 22:46
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:Brigador is the unofficial Mechwarrior 5 game that I had been waiting over 15 years for. Totally going to shill for Brigador ITT, I picked it up about a month ago and have already put like 80 hours into it. The thread is great and you should check it out. Not gonna lie, it's very much not Mechwarrior, but the way the game is written and made scratches the same itch in a lot of ways, and it has that 80s cool thing about it just like Battletech. If you're the kinda nerd who reads the HBS Battletech thread because you're a goon who fancies himself to be a connoisseur of fine games, do yourself a favor and check Brigador out while you're waiting for Battletech to finish cooking.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:18
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