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grimcreaper
Jan 7, 2012

Discendo Vox posted:

Nah, we just need Overkill to hire me on as design lead.

I agree with this. You would be a good addition.

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FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Hire Ian McCollum and make a forgotten weapons pack

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Hire Ian McShane and make a Swearingen/Continental Dude mashup character who calls out specials as various brands of cocksucker

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo

grimcreaper posted:

Huh. I didnt know those new DLCs not included with the vastly overpriced game werent the precurser for 37 more dlc packs.

How many more hours of content would Payday 2 need to have in order for it to justify its price, in your opinion?

maswastaken
Nov 12, 2011

FAUXTON posted:

Hire Ian McShane and make a Swearingen/Continental Dude mashup character who calls out specials as various brands of cocksucker
We already have Rust.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

I cant decide between...
Clay:


or
Parchment:

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

maswastaken posted:

We already have Rust.

Rust is the rye to Swearingen's bourbon.

They're both entirely viable hooch, but one is smoother by far.

EorayMel
May 30, 2015

WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Français.

FAUXTON posted:

Hire Ian McCollum and make a forgotten weapons pack

Make him a heister instead that gives us a jackhammer shotgun :whatup:


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I cant decide between...
Clay:


or
Parchment:


Clay's better for potato sack monster. Parchment is better for walmart plastic bag shopper monster. I'd go with potato sack monster tbh.

grimcreaper
Jan 7, 2012

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

How many more hours of content would Payday 2 need to have in order for it to justify its price, in your opinion?

At least 56 more DLCs worth of content.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I cant decide between...
Clay:


or
Parchment:


Give Plastic and Plastic Bag a shot.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

why not that rainbow metal one

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
So what is this beta announcement about I wonder.

maswastaken
Nov 12, 2011

Stream summary here

Summary summary: One Down's becoming a mutator for any difficulty, unnamed hardest difficulty is to be less bullshit (Jules played it and won), cops to be little less awful in general.

UnknownMercenary
Nov 1, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


^^ Goddamnit

John Murdoch posted:

So what is this beta announcement about I wonder.

Here's a good summary.

Summary of summary:
- One Down is now Three Downs (presumably getting a name change) and "one down" is going to be a mutator going forward, with achievements tied to it.
- Cop AI apparently optimized enough to no longer need nearly 100 on map enemies to compensate so enemy spawn numbers are being lowered
- Enemy health caps out a current Deathwish numbers
- Mayhem is getting a higher headshot multiplier to make it easier
- Enemy damage stats remain unchanged
- Crime Spree specific special units are coming to the base game (Medic Dozer, Minigun Dozer mentioned, no word on the Zeal Sniper)

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
Zeal sniper looks to also be coming to base game, along with the missing dozer weapons on OD.

The minigun dozer is supposed to have double the health of other dozers, only be able to walk, and be exclusively dangerous at close range...The way it's coded, though, it's not clear how well it will work for that, and a walk-only dozer enemy that's just tossed into the dozer spawnset is going to create really high variance in difficulty.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
So we're mostly getting what they should've done months ago, except they're not fixing the insanely borked OD damage numbers because ??????

EorayMel
May 30, 2015

WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Français.

John Murdoch posted:

So we're mostly getting what they should've done months ago, except they're not fixing the insanely borked OD damage numbers because ??????

They nerfed swan song instead, so when you beat the new and improved OD you will feel a sense of pride and accomplishment.

UnknownMercenary
Nov 1, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


John Murdoch posted:

So we're mostly getting what they should've done months ago, except they're not fixing the insanely borked OD damage numbers because ??????

I'd love to get damage falloff as part of the difficulty equation, but depending on how this shakes out in practice it should still make the 6 skull difficulty a lot more playable.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

UnknownMercenary posted:

I'd love to get damage falloff as part of the difficulty equation, but depending on how this shakes out in practice it should still make the 6 skull difficulty a lot more playable.

It'll certainly be more playable but I worry that it'll really just turn OD (they should call it Overdose so I can keep using OD as an abbreviation) into rocket tag, where as long as you can get the drop on cops your DW-ready build will clean house as usual but the second they get the drop on you, you instantly splat. It'll make getting the mask infinitely more simple, but it'll still be a frustrating experience, particularly on the same maps that have always been garbo on OD.

UnknownMercenary
Nov 1, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


The one thing I'm really looking forward to is the reduced spawn numbers. It should make large open maps less of a pain in the rear end indirectly. Goat Simulator with it's abundant lack of cover was less of a problem when it was only 40 cops spread around the map instead of 84.

YET ANOTHER FAG
Mar 6, 2003

by R. Guyovich

UnknownMercenary posted:

^^ Goddamnit


Here's a good summary.

Summary of summary:
- "one down" is going to be a mutator going forward, with achievements tied to it.

These better be retroactive because cmon man.

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo
Why would anyone play mutators? Even the ones that make the game harder still cut your exp/cash

spit on my clit
Jul 19, 2015

by Cyrano4747

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Why would anyone play mutators? Even the ones that make the game harder still cut your exp/cash

because money/exp doesnt matter what does matter is having more things to shoot bursting out of things you just shot

YET ANOTHER FAG
Mar 6, 2003

by R. Guyovich

spit on my clit posted:

because money/exp doesnt matter what does matter is having more things to shoot bursting out of things you just shot

💯💯💯

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

UnknownMercenary posted:

The one thing I'm really looking forward to is the reduced spawn numbers. It should make large open maps less of a pain in the rear end indirectly. Goat Simulator with it's abundant lack of cover was less of a problem when it was only 40 cops spread around the map instead of 84.

I dunno, if they're not actually trying to make OD any easier (while blatantly making changes that will make it easier) then the improved AI could counterbalance that, since a non-zero amount of OD survival revolves around avoiding cops (or running the game on Vox's lovely computer :v:). And while smaller mobs of cops will be easier to keep culled, it won't really change how easy it is for a single random cop to blow your head off.

UnknownMercenary
Nov 1, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


John Murdoch posted:

I dunno, if they're not actually trying to make OD any easier (while blatantly making changes that will make it easier) then the improved AI could counterbalance that, since a non-zero amount of OD survival revolves around avoiding cops (or running the game on Vox's lovely computer :v:). And while smaller mobs of cops will be easier to keep culled, it won't really change how easy it is for a single random cop to blow your head off.

Well, also keep in mind that you can now get 4 downs instead of 2. You will be able to die twice as much as before with a 4 person team all taking doctor bags, or actually be allowed to bring something that isn't that.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Tbh, I just hate that the game can randomly decide you die now, regardless of difficulty. It's just that OD makes sure it happens as often as possible.

bbcisdabomb
Jan 15, 2008

SHEESH
I think I've finally found the cause of the weird crashes I've been having when I zoom. Turns out I still had the goonmod weapon customizer files installed, despite reinstalling payday.

Now I'm just sad the customizer is gone.

UnknownMercenary
Nov 1, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


John Murdoch posted:

Tbh, I just hate that the game can randomly decide you die now, regardless of difficulty. It's just that OD makes sure it happens as often as possible.

Well hopefully they decide to add damage dropoff back in once the dust settles. There are actually people who are super upset that the current pile of feces is going to be improved upon.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Yeah in the back of my head I was thinking those idiots are why Jules is claiming they're not making the game any easier despite doing literally exactly that.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene



this is the international version, in which I retroactively forgot I called it "that god drat cloaker" when I made the thrilling sequel to "that loving cloaker."

Wastrel_
Jun 3, 2004

Read it and weep.
I'm not about to believe that cop AI is going to be significantly improved. One easy way is to bring back mixed special spawn groups with tasers taking cover behind shields again, which is a very simple example of better enemy tactics rather than numbers.

Achievements better be retroactive, because damned if I'm going to do Goat Simulator with 2 downs ever again.

They're also going to do something about assault rifles, both the 40-damage ones (to compensate for the removal of silent killer) and the 80-damage ones (which are total poo poo now).

These are surprisingly sensible changes but should really have come at the same time as they nerfed grenade launchers and other weapons.

maswastaken
Nov 12, 2011

FAUXTON posted:



this is the international version, in which I retroactively forgot I called it "that god drat cloaker" when I made the thrilling sequel to "that loving cloaker."
How does it compare to Jules Tingle's "Pounded in the Butt to Make Way for the Bulldozer?"

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

maswastaken posted:

How does it compare to Jules Tingle's "Pounded in the Butt to Make Way for the Bulldozer?"

Chairface and I tried 2-manning a Big Bank run the other day and I shot 18 civilians. We didn't make it but I was the last one into custody because I thought the Patchett was still a decent counter-sniper SMG and found out it has no range now.

Explosionface
May 30, 2011

We can dance if we want to,
we can leave Marle behind.
'Cause your fiends don't dance,
and if they don't dance,
they'll get a Robo Fist of mine.


I went ahead and started goofing around in this again the other day. Just low difficulty soloing. Trying out different weapons and heists I haven't seen before, including the Brothers Grimm. HOLY poo poo I'M IN LOVE.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Explosionface posted:

I went ahead and started goofing around in this again the other day. Just low difficulty soloing. Trying out different weapons and heists I haven't seen before, including the Brothers Grimm. HOLY poo poo I'M IN LOVE.

Hell yeah another convert

maswastaken
Nov 12, 2011

I've been playing with sniper rifles and shotguns (a rare victory for Overkill Ace, since sniper rifles appreciate both the damage and the weapon swap speed) and I think I'm ready to fire off cylinders of annihilation the size of this:



Please come sooner, beta.

EorayMel
May 30, 2015

WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Français.
:frogsiren: oh poo poo!!! :frogsiren:

:mamacita: Disclaimer: this seems to only be for the beta. :mamacita:

Difficulty changelog

quote:

Mayhem
Enemies will take 33% more headshot damage.
G36 swats should do Overkill Damage instead of DW damage.
Deathwish
Whenever a Bulldozer spawns, there is a chance that it will be a slow-moving minigun-wielding Bulldozer.
One additional Taser is allowed into the level.
One additional Cloaker is allowed into the level.
One additional Bulldozers is allowed into the level.

One Down:


Whenever a Bulldozer spawns, there is a chance that it will be a slow-moving minigun-wielding Bulldozer.
Whenever a Bulldozer spawns, there is a chance that it will be a Medic Bulldozer. A Medic Bulldozer counts as both a Medic and a Bulldozer.
One additional Taser is allowed into the level.
One additional Cloaker is allowed into the level.
Two additional Bulldozers are allowed into the level.
Bulldozers will have 100% more health than Deathwish bulldozer.
Specials will no longer spawn alone and will have a few swats accompanying them.
The numbers of time a player can go down before custody is no longer reduced to 1.
Enemies health is reduced by 33.3%.
Developer notes: One Down units will now have the same health as Death Wish and Mayhem units.
The black zeal bulldozer will now use an Izhma 12g shotguns as a weapon.
The white zeal bulldozer will now use a KSP light machine gun as a weapon.
Cloakers will now also drop smoke bomb when they charge and kick down a player.
Due to an issue cloakers will use the normal model instead of the zeal cloaker model.


Weapon changelog

quote:

Joker:
Basic: Converted units see their damage reduced by 35% .
Aced: Converted enemies damage is no longer reduced.
Developer notes: Due to improve reaction time of the AI, convert became deadlier than they need to be for this reason we have reduced the amount of damage they can deal.
Specialized Killing:
The Skill has been removed and replaced with High value target.

High Value Target:
The skill has been moved from Mastermind - Sharpshooter - Tier 3 to Ghost - Silent Killer - Tier 3.
Ammo Efficiency:
The skill has been moved from Mastermind - Sharpshooter - Tier 4 to Mastermind - Sharpshooter - Tier 3.
Graze:
A new skill has been added in Mastermind - Sharpshooter - Tier 4!
Basic: Snipers that hit their target deal 20% of the damage dealt in a 100 cm radius around the bullet trajectory.
Aced: If a bullet would headshot-kill someone, the graze skill will deal 100% of the weapon’s damage instead of 20%.


Rest are many guns getting damage bumps.

quote:

Car-4 Rifle:
Damage increased to 52 (up from 38).
DMR Kit damage decreased to 108 (down from 120).

MP9 SMG:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 36).
Amcar Rifle:
Damage increased to 42 (up from 36).
AMR-16 Rifle:
DMR Kit damage decreased to 66 (down from 80).

Damage increased to 94 (up from 80).
Para SMG:
Damage increased to 55 (up from 38)
AK Rifle:
Damage increased to 56 (up from 40).
DMR Kit damage decreased to 104 (down from 120).

AK.762 Rifle:
Damage increased to 97 (up from 80).
DMR Kit damage decreased to 63 (down from 80).

Krinkov Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
Akimbo Krinkov Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
AK5 Rifle:
Damage increased to 56 (up from 38).
UAR Rifle:
Damage increased to 55 (up from 38).
JP36 Rifle:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 36).
Kobus 90 Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 56 (up from 38).
Compact-5 Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 40).
Akimbo Compact-5 Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 40).
Mark 10 Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 40).
Swedish K Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
Commando 553 Rifle:
Damage increased to 38 (up from 35).
SpecOps Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 40).
Eagle Heavy Rifle:
Damage increased to 98 (up from 81).
Falcon Rifle:
Damage increased to 98 (up from 80).
Gewehr 3 Rifle:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
DMR Kit damage decreased to 61 (down from 80).

Gecko 7.62 Rifle:
Damage increased to 57 (up from 42).
Clarion Rifle:
Damage increased to 41 (up from 35).
Cobra Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 36).
Blaster 9mm Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 36).
Uzi Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 40).
Patchett L2A1 Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 42 (up from 36).
Chicago Typewriter Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 40).
Queen's Wrath Rifle:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 40).
Lion’s Roar Rifle:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 40).
Jacket’s Piece:
Damage increased to 57 (up from 40).
Valkyria Rifle:
Damage increased to 41 (up from 36).
Kross Vertex Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 42).
Micro Uzi Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 36).’
Heather Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 40).
Akimbo Heather Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 40).
Bootleg Rifle:
Damage increased to 40 (up from 38).
CR 805B Rifle:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
Jackal Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
AK17 Rifle:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
Tatonka Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
Signature Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 39).
Akimbo Signature Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 44 (up from 39).
MP40 Submachine Gun:
Damage increased to 99 (up from 80).
Union 5.56 Rifle:
Damage increased to 58 (up from 40).

Grom Sniper Rifle:
Damage decreased to 160 (down from 300).
Total Ammo increased to 40 (up from 30).
Rate of fire increased to 150 (up from 60).
Contractor Sniper Rifle:
Accuracy decreased to 60 (down from 72).
Lebensauger .308 Sniper Rifle:
Rate of fire increased to 150 (up from 120).
Repeater 1874 Sniper Rifle:
Damage increased to 246 (up from 160).
Rattlesnake Sniper Rifle:
Damage increased to 246 (up from 160).
Nagant Sniper Rifle:
Damage increased to 480 (up from 300).
Platypus 70 Sniper Rifle:
Damage increased to 480 (up from 300).
R93 Sniper Rifle:
Damage increased to 480 (up from 300).
Desertfox Sniper Rifle:
Damage increased to 480 (up from 300).


Also community safe 6 for those that like skins

EorayMel fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Feb 8, 2018

maswastaken
Nov 12, 2011

quote:

Grom Sniper Rifle:
Damage decreased to 160 (down from 300).
Total Ammo increased to 40 (up from 30).
Rate of fire increased to 150 (up from 60).
Guess Jules figured out the most concealable sniper rifle shouldn't also be one of the strongest in general.

Also, I appreciate that he took all this time and effort to leave shotguns completely unchanged.

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bbcisdabomb
Jan 15, 2008

SHEESH
With the repeated buffs of every other weapon type, I think it's time for shotguns to get buffed back to beta range levels. With Goat Sim and Heat Street, the damage falloff might actually happen now!

:getin:

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