Laptop Megathread: Your laptop doesn't have Haswell? More like Hasbeen~

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Laptop Megathread: Your laptop doesn't have Haswell? More like Hasbeen~

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Spam Musubi: Jan 17, 2018; Cheap, Affordable, and Tasty!
Wrap me in rice like you would with your mother.

What�s your guys opinion on the new Dell XPS 13?

# ? Jan 30, 2018 02:57

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# ? May 15, 2024 22:30

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

AutisticAwl posted:

What�s your guys opinion on the new Dell XPS 13?

It appears to be a 9360 with all usb type C and the camera from the 2 in 1

# ? Jan 30, 2018 03:12

Spam Musubi: Jan 17, 2018; Cheap, Affordable, and Tasty!
Wrap me in rice like you would with your mother.

Don Lapre posted:

It appears to be a 9360 with all usb type C and the camera from the 2 in 1

Wondering if I should buy for my son or not.

# ? Jan 30, 2018 03:16

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

AutisticAwl posted:

Wondering if I should buy for my son or not.

No reason why not unless he wants a convertible or has older usb things to plug into it. Even then i assume it comes with a dongle like the 2 in 1

# ? Jan 30, 2018 03:17

Atomizer: Jun 24, 2007

First off, Woot has a T440S for $450. It's an older Haswell model, but at least it has an SSD and 8 GB RAM. The 14" display is 1600x900, or HD+.

Don Lapre posted:

You will not take advantage of dual channel. ~2-5% penalty in most applications, onboard video performance may take a bigger hit.

That being said you didn't have it before either so while it wont lower your performance you will not get the benefit of enabling it.

Doesn't the soldered RAM + optional DIMM enable dual-channel though? I think if you have a different capacity in each channel it's called something like "mixed mode" where it performs like DC up to the maximum capacity of 2x the smaller channel, then the extra capacity on the larger module is accessed in SC mode.

Hadlock posted:

Re: lovely low travel keyboard chat

I've had one of the new rMBP now for about three months; either it's been fully broken in, or I've gotten used to it finally.

That whole "grain of sand will trash your keyboard" myth is absolutely true - I had a bread crumb under my up arrow and it gave me real serious grief while I slowly pummeled it in to Oblivion for the better part of a week. I'm certain that a more durable speck of dust would have permanently crippled my keyboard.

I'm a bit confused about key travel now though. I type at work on a crisp new mbp keyboard and then come home and pound on a 5 year old Thinkpad keyboard which now feels a bit mushy or like I'm using a TRS-80

I make no secret of the fact that I hate Apple, but am I being unreasonable in thinking that if you buy a "premium" product it shouldn't have a grain of sand or crumb as its kryptonite? :confused:

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

Yeah key travel doesn't tell the whole story, and is sort of misleading when it comes to laptops imho

For a mechanical keyboard, key travel is important because the activation point is mid-stroke. Mechanicals are nice because you can type very quickly and comfortably by not bottoming out every keystroke, and the more key travel you have, the more room you have to bounce across the keys like your fingers are the delicate toes of a ballet dancer.

Laptops are (almost) universally membrane keyboards so you have to bottom out every stroke. Most feel like mushy crap because you have to crush a cheap piece of rubber into oblivion so the key registers your input. Tactile response is arguably more important than key travel for a membrane board, it's all about how it feels when the rubber dome collapses and sends the plunger to the bottom. Thinkpads have a nice combination of stiff dome + lots of travel, so you feel a sort of "pop" when you depress the key and the plunger shoots down to kiss the membrane.

Apple solves this problem by having a metal dome instead of a rubber one, so they can get away with less travel because the tactile response is so pronounced. Which of course introduces a whole host of other issues such as requiring a complete loving rebuild if a grain of sand gets in there. I dunno what the gently caress Dell is doing, something about magnets or some poo poo, but i'm interested in where it's going.

Hey, I've been looking for a place to share something and this appears to be the best opportunity. So a (Chinese) company called Havit makes these ultra-slim mechanical keyboards (including an 87-key.) They're wired, with removable cables, backlit, with Kailh blue switches. I got the 104-key one during a sale, and I'm really impressed. The low-profile, short-travel keyswitches took a short while to get used to but then I really liked typing on it. The blue switches are clicky, but aren't too loud so you get the best of both worlds. I wanted to bring this up because this is the closest keyboard to being able to fit a mechanical one into a laptop. You're still not going to be able to fit it in an ultraportable, but you could totally get it into a gaming laptop.

# ? Jan 30, 2018 09:39

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Atomizer posted:

First off, Woot has a T440S for $450. It's an older Haswell model, but at least it has an SSD and 8 GB RAM. The 14" display is 1600x900, or HD+.

The T440 is a pile of poo poo and nobody should buy one for $450. That's like a 5 year old laptop with a poop touchpad.

You can get a T460 on eBay for $500 refurbished all day

# ? Jan 30, 2018 14:35

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Atomizer posted:

First off, Woot has a T440S for $450. It's an older Haswell model, but at least it has an SSD and 8 GB RAM. The 14" display is 1600x900, or HD+.

Doesn't the soldered RAM + optional DIMM enable dual-channel though? I think if you have a different capacity in each channel it's called something like "mixed mode" where it performs like DC up to the maximum capacity of 2x the smaller channel, then the extra capacity on the larger module is accessed in SC mode.

I make no secret of the fact that I hate Apple, but am I being unreasonable in thinking that if you buy a "premium" product it shouldn't have a grain of sand or crumb as its kryptonite?

Hey, I've been looking for a place to share something and this appears to be the best opportunity. So a (Chinese) company called Havit makes these ultra-slim mechanical keyboards (including an 87-key.) They're wired, with removable cables, backlit, with Kailh blue switches. I got the 104-key one during a sale, and I'm really impressed. The low-profile, short-travel keyswitches took a short while to get used to but then I really liked typing on it. The blue switches are clicky, but aren't too loud so you get the best of both worlds. I wanted to bring this up because this is the closest keyboard to being able to fit a mechanical one into a laptop. You're still not going to be able to fit it in an ultraportable, but you could totally get it into a gaming laptop.

Ahh forgot about hybrid dual channel. That is a possibility.

# ? Jan 30, 2018 14:39

Pablo Nergigante: Apr 16, 2002

The speakers on the XPS 15... aren't great. They're in the front facing downward, so everything sounds a little muffled when it's on my lap, and Dell uses this weird Waves MaxxAudio Pro program to "boost" the sound but it makes some things sound a little distorted. And there are apparently issues with it and Windows 10 updates so there aren't even any presets available to tweak the sound further. It's a shame since everything else about the laptop is fantastic. I'm happy with it overall but I wish the speakers were better, and there's plenty of room on either side of the keyboard for speakers

# ? Jan 30, 2018 17:21

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Pablo Gigante posted:

The speakers on the XPS 15... aren't great. They're in the front facing downward, so everything sounds a little muffled when it's on my lap, and Dell uses this weird Waves MaxxAudio Pro program to "boost" the sound but it makes some things sound a little distorted. And there are apparently issues with it and Windows 10 updates so there aren't even any presets available to tweak the sound further. It's a shame since everything else about the laptop is fantastic. I'm happy with it overall but I wish the speakers were better, and there's plenty of room on either side of the keyboard for speakers

On my 13 i just used the eq and boosted treble in a smooth wave from center and it fixed the muffled sound.

# ? Jan 30, 2018 17:41

Pablo Nergigante: Apr 16, 2002

Don Lapre posted:

On my 13 i just used the eq and boosted treble in a smooth wave from center and it fixed the muffled sound.

I'll try that when I get home, thanks!

# ? Jan 30, 2018 17:45

Seamonster: Apr 30, 2007; IMMER SIEGREICH

strangely enough, speakers on both sides of the keyboard was the way for the progenitor of the XPS 15 archetype (mostly metal, thinner, dGPU, no numpad) XPS 15z circa 2011. Then Dell decided to gently caress with the design for the next few iterations, every iteration with overall bad results until our current infinity edge business.

# ? Jan 30, 2018 17:52

Pablo Nergigante: Apr 16, 2002

Seamonster posted:

strangely enough, speakers on both sides of the keyboard was the way for the progenitor of the XPS 15 archetype (mostly metal, thinner, dGPU, no numpad) XPS 15z circa 2011. Then Dell decided to gently caress with the design for the next few iterations, every iteration with overall bad results until our current infinity edge business.

Sounds about right, the rest of the build is top-notch, the speakers are really the only problem

# ? Jan 30, 2018 18:07

Seamonster: Apr 30, 2007; IMMER SIEGREICH

Good to hear. I'm tempted to pick up a maxed out 9560 refurbish off fleabay for ~$1700 once my tax refund clears. 32G of that DDR4 and 1TB of nvme drive is like $700 just for those components, jfc.

# ? Jan 30, 2018 18:41

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

I was surprised my 9365 had a pm961 (basically a 960 evo) ssd, but apparently some come with toshiba drives.

# ? Jan 30, 2018 19:06

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Pablo Gigante posted:

I'll try that when I get home, thanks!

I did the same but I cut instead of boosting, 250Hz or so and lower is where you get that mid/low muddy buzzing

Don't have the Maxx Bass knob too high though. It's good for music to fill in a bit of the lower end, but for stuff like dialogue you can get that distortion when it's past halfway, so try turning that down first. You could always save your own presets too

# ? Jan 30, 2018 19:21

Dr. Fishopolis: Aug 31, 2004; ROBOT

Atomizer posted:

Hey, I've been looking for a place to share something and this appears to be the best opportunity. So a (Chinese) company called Havit makes these ultra-slim mechanical keyboards (including an 87-key.) They're wired, with removable cables, backlit, with Kailh blue switches. I got the 104-key one during a sale, and I'm really impressed. The low-profile, short-travel keyswitches took a short while to get used to but then I really liked typing on it. The blue switches are clicky, but aren't too loud so you get the best of both worlds. I wanted to bring this up because this is the closest keyboard to being able to fit a mechanical one into a laptop. You're still not going to be able to fit it in an ultraportable, but you could totally get it into a gaming laptop.

There are a bunch of gaming laptops with mechanical switches, some use the kind of low-travel switches you're talking about. They're generally the more absurd "concept" designs or "desktop replacement" behemoths.

I love mechanical keyboard switches to a pretty unhealthy degree. If you get me talking about them, the people in whatever room I'm in will either disperse quietly while looking at the ground or start throwing things at me. The Novatouch I'm using right now has a keycap set that is worth more than the board itself.

But there's a time and place for them, and laptops are neither. If you're seriously looking at a laptop with mechanical switches, it's going to be loving humongous. It's not a thing you're going to put on your lap or carry around. I'm sure there's a market for those things, like... i dunno. College students who live in tiny rooms and can afford two laptops?

I also don't understand why you would use a desktop keyboard with low travel switches at all, but you do you man

Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jan 30, 2018

# ? Jan 30, 2018 19:43

Pablo Nergigante: Apr 16, 2002

baka kaba posted:

I did the same but I cut instead of boosting, 250Hz or so and lower is where you get that mid/low muddy buzzing

Don't have the Maxx Bass knob too high though. It's good for music to fill in a bit of the lower end, but for stuff like dialogue you can get that distortion when it's past halfway, so try turning that down first. You could always save your own presets too

Word, thanks for the tips everyone

# ? Jan 30, 2018 21:32

El Grillo: Jan 3, 2008; Fun Shoe

Ended up buying an x270 to replace my aged, terrible Asus 1215n. Boy is it nice to have a laptop where bits don't fall off when you pick it up.

Thing feels genuinely nice and solid - all the Thinkpads I've used have felt creaky as hell, though to be fair I've only ever encountered old ones. This thing is actually pretty sleak despite that unchanging 90's square design. Also the ergonomics and the options for function buttons and so on are all pleasingly logical; I didn't expect there to be such an easily accessible option to reverse the position of the Fn and Ctrl keys for example. Just feels like a lot of thought has gone into everything. But maybe this is just me being excited at having a new laptop.

e: it can also play HD video lol. gently caress you Asus & NVidia.
e2: also �659 for a brand new one, woop

# ? Jan 30, 2018 23:46

Pablo Nergigante: Apr 16, 2002

Uh is there any way to get smooth scrolling like Safari in OSX with Chrome in Windows. I tried a couple extensions but they're not quite right. That's one thing I miss from my old MacBook.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 01:35

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Chrome should have smooth scrolling enabled by default. Otherwise its in about://flags

# ? Jan 31, 2018 02:59

Mu Zeta: Oct 17, 2002; Me crush ass to dust

I don't see anything referencing "smooth" in the about://flags section on Chrome in OSX.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 03:21

dissss: Nov 10, 2007; I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

Mu Zeta posted:

I don't see anything referencing "smooth" in the about ://flags section on Chrome in OSX.

It�s there in Windows.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 03:23

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

dissss posted:

It�s there in Windows.

Ohh sorry, i thought he meant in Windows. I thought it was already in osx by default and not changeable.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 03:44

Pablo Nergigante: Apr 16, 2002

I saw that flag but it still doesn't work quite the same way, it still scrolls line-by-line with the "smooth scrolling" enabled and the acceleration is hosed up. However I just found an article from like 4 days ago that said that they're gonna be supporting the Windows Precision Touchpad poo poo for true smooth scrolling soon so I guess I just have to wait a bit.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 04:01

AverySpecialfriend: Jul 8, 2017; by Hand Knit

oops wrong thread lmao

AverySpecialfriend fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jan 31, 2018

# ? Jan 31, 2018 04:53

Pablo Nergigante: Apr 16, 2002

AverySpecialfriend posted:

clear is lowkey the best color on the legendary banner, firesweep bow and seashell a+

What the

EDIT: Apparently it�s a Fire Emblem Heroes thing

# ? Jan 31, 2018 05:02

AverySpecialfriend: Jul 8, 2017; by Hand Knit

swing and a miss

# ? Jan 31, 2018 05:03

shovelbum: Oct 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

AverySpecialfriend posted:

oops wrong thread lmao

Were you looking for the TROMP thread

# ? Jan 31, 2018 05:05

Atomizer: Jun 24, 2007

Bob Morales posted:

The T440 is a pile of poo poo and nobody should buy one for $450. That's like a 5 year old laptop with a poop touchpad.

You can get a T460 on eBay for $500 refurbished all day

Woot apparently agreed and replaced that deal with a "gaming" desktop and a disclaimer/apology. :laugh:

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

There are a bunch of gaming laptops with mechanical switches, some use the kind of low-travel switches you're talking about. They're generally the more absurd "concept" designs or "desktop replacement" behemoths.

I love mechanical keyboard switches to a pretty unhealthy degree. If you get me talking about them, the people in whatever room I'm in will either disperse quietly while looking at the ground or start throwing things at me. The Novatouch I'm using right now has a keycap set that is worth more than the board itself.

But there's a time and place for them, and laptops are neither. If you're seriously looking at a laptop with mechanical switches, it's going to be loving humongous. It's not a thing you're going to put on your lap or carry around. I'm sure there's a market for those things, like... i dunno. College students who live in tiny rooms and can afford two laptops?

I also don't understand why you would use a desktop keyboard with low travel switches at all, but you do you man

I know there's like the Acer Predator 21, the $9k gaming "laptop" :stare:

with a full mechanical keyboard, but they're still disappointingly uncommon in laptops of any kind. :saddowns:

I mean you can always attach an external keyboard, but I still love mechanical keyswitches as much as you do. And I guess the attraction to the low-profile mech keyboard was just the novelty of it, but like I said it works as you'd expect and I'll take a mechanical over a membrane keyboard any day.

Also, I used to use a Unicomp (of Lexmark/IBM descent) buckling spring keyboard (USB Model M reproduction, with Trackpoint) for a long time, which has similar switches to "regular" mechanical, but eventually I replaced it with a mechanical, backlit 84-key with blues.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 09:31

knox_harrington: Feb 18, 2011; Running no point.

El Grillo posted:

x270

e2: also �659 for a brand new one, woop

Ohh... where did you see this?

# ? Jan 31, 2018 11:46

Dr. Fishopolis: Aug 31, 2004; ROBOT

Atomizer posted:

Woot apparently agreed and replaced that deal with a "gaming" desktop and a disclaimer/apology.

I know there's like the Acer Predator 21, the $9k gaming "laptop" with a full mechanical keyboard, but they're still disappointingly uncommon in laptops of any kind. I mean you can always attach an external keyboard, but I still love mechanical keyswitches as much as you do. And I guess the attraction to the low-profile mech keyboard was just the novelty of it, but like I said it works as you'd expect and I'll take a mechanical over a membrane keyboard any day.

Also, I used to use a Unicomp (of Lexmark/IBM descent) buckling spring keyboard (USB Model M reproduction, with Trackpoint) for a long time, which has similar switches to "regular" mechanical, but eventually I replaced it with a mechanical, backlit 84-key with blues.

I have a lot of problems with the Surface line, but I will admit to, at one point, carrying around a surface plus a Planck that I built with Alps switches from an Apple Extended Keyboard.

It was marvelous, but a bit too heavy and fiddly and not coffee shop friendly. I'm never selling that little keyboard though.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 17:43

anothergod: Apr 11, 2016

You know how my U key fell off? Now my E key is threatening to fall off, too. I'm 100% interested in not loving around and getting an official Lenovo replacement. Is there a Lenovo site for this? For some reason it's not popping up on quick google, and tha worries me. IDC if it's slow, I just want guaranteed official parts.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 17:57

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

anothergod posted:

You know how my U key fell off? Now my E key is threatening to fall off, too. I'm 100% interested in not loving around and getting an official Lenovo replacement. Is there a Lenovo site for this? For some reason it's not popping up on quick google, and tha worries me. IDC if it's slow, I just want guaranteed official parts.

If it's within warranty, you can just give their customer service a call. They overnighted me a new keyboard when I had similar issues.

If it's old enough that they tell you to gently caress off, you can try here: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/partslookup
There's also a ton of people selling them online, either via eBay, Amazon, or other such stores. Official parts are easy enough to come by.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 18:01

Dr. Fishopolis: Aug 31, 2004; ROBOT

Nobody makes knock off thinkpad parts, just ebay that poo poo. Lenovo charges $120 for a replacement keyboard, but you can find the exact same part for $50 easy.

# ? Jan 31, 2018 18:03

shovelbum: Oct 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

Nobody makes knock off thinkpad parts, just ebay that poo poo. Lenovo charges $120 for a replacement keyboard, but you can find the exact same part for $50 easy.

Be careful when sourcing LCDs and batteries but otherwise ebay is the best way

# ? Jan 31, 2018 20:17

shovelbum: Oct 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Also fuuuuuck the price of RAM, I hope 16gb is enough

# ? Feb 1, 2018 00:11

Happy Thread: Jul 10, 2005; by Fluffdaddy; Plaster Town Cop

I buy replacement used Lenovo keyboards off ebay for like twenty bucks or less all the time, they work great

(T420 / X220 keys and pointer buttons are REALLY easy to break off)

Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Feb 1, 2018

# ? Feb 1, 2018 00:57

El Grillo: Jan 3, 2008; Fun Shoe

knox_harrington posted:

Ohh... where did you see this?

eBay

# ? Feb 1, 2018 01:05

shovelbum: Oct 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Ordering from Lenovo status: ordered laptop+battery on the 29th, battery (supposed to arrive Feb 6) is here. Laptop is still optimistic about its chance of shipping on 1/30. Lolnovo

# ? Feb 1, 2018 01:12

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# ? May 15, 2024 22:30

Hadlock: Nov 9, 2004

First -80 series Thinkpad for sale spotted in the wild:

https://www3.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-series/ThinkPad-T480s/p/22TP2TT480S?menu-id=T480s#tab-customize

T480s is the "slim" or s-omething T series. Different from the much more common T series. Listing for $1999.00 aud or $1600 usd compared to $1099 for the 470s in the US... everything is way ridiculously more expensive in Australia for no reason though so don't take that as a pricing trend for the US.

Also appears that they have the E480 and E580 but those are hardly Thinkpads with plastic internal frames.

edit: T480s (not T480) comes with 8gb RAM soldered to the motherboard, 1 SO-DIMM up to 16GB for a max of 24GB memory.

Also comes availble with i5-8350U which according to intel ark (the ultimate source of truth) is a true quad core with 8 logical cores:

https://ark.intel.com/products/124969/Intel-Core-i5-8350U-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

Haven't looked in to it in detail but the primary difference between the lowest i5 offered and highest i7 is simply clock speed.

Hadlock fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Feb 1, 2018

# ? Feb 1, 2018 04:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Laptop Megathread: Your laptop doesn't have Haswell? More like Hasbeen~

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