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I thought for sure that Captain America was going to show up and give Peter guidance when he was at a low point. I guess in retrospect that this doesn't make sense, timeline-wise.
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Feb 1, 2018 22:21
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Snowman_McK posted:So it's a Punisher show that isn't for people who want to see the Punisher do Punisher things? Who is it for? Optimists.
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Feb 1, 2018 22:28
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Alexander Hamilton posted:I thought for sure that Captain America was going to show up and give Peter guidance when he was at a low point. I guess in retrospect that this doesn't make sense, timeline-wise.
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Feb 1, 2018 22:38
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Halloween Jack posted:It doesn't make sense because the movie Captain America is not an inspiring figure in any way after Winter Soldier. It's...really weird. In fact, he's relegated to a joke cameo in the new Spider-Man movie. Hannibal Burress calls him a war criminal.
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Feb 1, 2018 22:45
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Cythereal posted:Except Happy and Tony weren't ignoring him - pay attention to their dialogue and they repeatedly indicate that they're listening to every word Peter tells them. Peter is a kid. He's overconfident, reckless, and absolutely convinced he's doing the right thing. Yeah but that's the point, Tony is a bad absentee father (visualized by a literally empty suit) and isn't great at showing Peter that he's actually listening and taking him seriously. Happy is a bad intermediary who seems like he's constantly annoyed and blowing Peter off. Part of the story is that Tony is repeating the mistakes his father made.
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Feb 1, 2018 22:56
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"When justice is outlawed, the just... must become outlaws." The ideology of the Marvel movies doesn't permit its heroes to take themselves too seriously. Among the Avengers' Big Three, Captain America alone is allowed a break in the constant undercutting asides to the audience; and this only because they don't have the balls to show Captain America as a complete doofus like Tony or Thor. With his ponderous ethics and overt political significance Steve can only exist as a phantom menace, in jokey self-lampooning PSAs or referenced as a traitor and public enemy. His ghost haunts the film universe of Homecoming; the meta-joke of course, being that in his own series Cap has been deflated into this rear end in a top hat who doesn't stand for anything except that he feels sad all the time.
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Feb 1, 2018 22:56
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Speculating about character development in the MCU is always fun, because it'll all get thrown out or ignored for the next movie.BrianWilly posted:Would you say that this is No. Because Bernthal is a ridiculously talented guy who plays the character really well. He's just stuck in a show that, like all the Netflix poo poo, is really stretched. Cythereal posted:The Punisher series is about broken people doing broken things, trying to deal with their lives after intense trauma and largely not doing very well. Frank kills people in every episode, but it's rarely glorified - Frank Castle is not a good, sane, or well man, and what he does is not admirable. It might be necessary, and Frank Castle ultimately is a net force for good, but it's not because he's a man of great morals or emotional control. The meat of the Punisher series isn't the violence, it's the quiet scenes of emotion and pain as people hurt, twisted, and broken by violence and its consequences try to piece things together and figure out what to do with their lives. I know what the Punisher is about. I'm not asking for a far right power fantasy. No on screen version of the Punisher has been that, and none have portrayed him as anything other than broken (this includes the Dolph Lundgren film) I'm asking for a leaner narrative format, or, if it insists on being as long as it is, having more happen.
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Feb 1, 2018 23:04
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Mordiceius posted:Even my wife, who is the most casual movie viewer, saw Homecoming and said "Wow, Tony is coming off a complete rear end in a top hat and lovely person." She's right. All he Iron Man stuff took me out of the film. Homecoming was OK but I could have really done without the Stark connection. Come to think of it, I liked every part that didn't try to cram Peter into the MCU. Unfortunately, that was like 1/3 of the movie. Keaton, Holland and the rest were great. I don't think Spiderman functions best as part of a team.
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Feb 1, 2018 23:25
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It would have been fun if Cap directly gave Peter a pep talk through those tapes while Peter was really sleep deprived or something. But then again that might be too confusing for the Marvel audience.
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Feb 1, 2018 23:34
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Detective No. 27 posted:It would have been fun if Cap directly gave Peter a pep talk through those tapes while Peter was really sleep deprived or something. But then again that might be too confusing for the Marvel audience. "Peter.... you were right about him.. You have ... to find... MJ... she's the key.... find MJ"
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Feb 2, 2018 00:11
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MacheteZombie posted:"Peter.... you were right about him.. You have ... to find... MJ... she's the key.... find MJ" The big difference is that Spider-Man would be the one waking up in world owned by the authoritarian superhero and his flying drones.
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Feb 2, 2018 00:17
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Homecoming's milder action and lowered stakes proceed logically from Iron Man's victory in Civil War. This is the world of responsible liberalism and technocratic parenting Tony wanted to build. The prologue where Toombs' company is cashed out by a pack of smirking federal officials is the old world of command-and-control authoritarianism (represented by Nick Fury and SHIELD, which is actually Hydra), which has already been dismantled as of Winter Soldier. In the denouement, Toombs is invited to join the new order: capitalism with a heart---capitalism that cares.
Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 00:26
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Guy A. Person posted:Yeah but that's the point, Tony is a bad absentee father (visualized by a literally empty suit) and isn't great at showing Peter that he's actually listening and taking him seriously. Happy is a bad intermediary who seems like he's constantly annoyed and blowing Peter off. Part of the story is that Tony is repeating the mistakes his father made. And Peter is a headstrong kid ignoring the signs that he is valued and trusted by a guy with his best interests at heart - much like Tony at that age, from everything we've seen of movie Tony when he was young. The difference is, Peter breaks from his father [figure] by becoming a street-level hero instead of an inventor and business mogul. Snowman_McK posted:I know what the Punisher is about. I'm not asking for a far right power fantasy. No on screen version of the Punisher has been that, and none have portrayed him as anything other than broken (this includes the Dolph Lundgren film) I'm asking for a leaner narrative format, or, if it insists on being as long as it is, having more happen. More does happen, and I think Netflix Punisher does a very good job with its run time. You just don't appear to be interested in the emotional boil of the show, which is fair. This isn't Your Punisher, and that's fine.
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Feb 2, 2018 02:43
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Cythereal posted:And Peter is a headstrong kid ignoring the signs that he is valued and trusted by a guy with his best interests at heart - much like Tony at that age, from everything we've seen of movie Tony when he was young. The difference is, Peter breaks from his father [figure] by becoming a street-level hero instead of an inventor and business mogul. More than what? Itself? I've watched it (or enough of it to know I don't want to watch more), and I'm asking that more happen than does happen. You're assuring me that that is the case, that the show contains more stuff than it contains. My problem is not the take on the character. It's the take on the show. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 02:53
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The thing that amazes me about the Marvel Netflix shows is that they stifled all of them in order to build up to The Defenders, which they then gave a low budget and managed to make it feel even longer than the already stretched previous seasons even though it was shorter than any of them. Its one of the worst seasons of TV I've ever seen. That said, it does connect to the Marvel movies in that it cast an excellent actor as a villain (Sigourney Weaver) and then completely wastes her.
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Feb 2, 2018 03:48
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Stan Lee was just hospitalized for "shortness of breath". He's fine for now, but still needs to stay there for a few days.
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Feb 2, 2018 04:27
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He probably saw a hot dame.
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Feb 2, 2018 05:11
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The first episode of the Punisher is basically a gritty version of an episode of the Shadow, but twice the length and half as enjoyable.
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Feb 2, 2018 06:03
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https://intpolicydigest.org/2017/06/26/the-alt-right-has-a-new-hero-and-it-s-black-panther/ Gonna watch a Marvel movie to own the libs.
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Feb 2, 2018 06:39
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't like all or most of that stuff but they seem to give their actors a little more rope, which is basically my only standard for a tv show. The big thing for me is that the villains are all done much better in the marvel netflix shows than the movies, although part of that maybe the fact that most of the various showrunners were smart enough to leave some of the villains alive at the end of the season. However considering how much New York is embedded in my family history, the way they portray the various neighborhoods like Hell's Kitchen and Harlem as if the 90s and 2000s never happened is 70% amusing and 30% irritating.
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Feb 2, 2018 07:23
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Gentrifiied neighborhoods make for lame movies
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Feb 2, 2018 07:25
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McSpanky posted:https://intpolicydigest.org/2017/06/26/the-alt-right-has-a-new-hero-and-it-s-black-panther/
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Feb 2, 2018 07:43
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sponges posted:Gentrifiied neighborhoods make for lame movies uh, Good Burger?
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Feb 2, 2018 08:44
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Conal Cochran posted:The first episode of the Punisher is basically a gritty version of an episode of the Shadow, but twice the length and half as enjoyable. Now that's a character I want to see attempted again. I actually legit love the 90s movie.
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Feb 2, 2018 10:11
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MonsieurChoc posted:Now that's a character I want to see attempted again. I actually legit love the 90s movie.
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Feb 2, 2018 10:33
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McSpanky posted:https://intpolicydigest.org/2017/06/26/the-alt-right-has-a-new-hero-and-it-s-black-panther/ quote:Black Panther is not a character whose backstory, morals, or goals will cater to globalists, multiculturalists, or SJWs. Black Pidgeon Speaks, a cultural commentator whose YouTube channel boasts over 200k subscribers, points out several tenants of Black Panther’s character that paints a portrait of T’Challa as a “hero of the alt-right.” Firstly, Black Panther is anti-globalist. Black Panther’s moral coda is steeped in a strong nationalistic conviction that constantly places the wellbeing of his people’s history, culture, and identity over any external attempts at opening up the culture and economy of Wakanda, the fictional African country in the Marvel universe. Wakanda is a hierarchal society that’s intentionally racially homogeneous, and its immigration policy is essentially isolationist. Other cultural influences are not permitted within Wakandan borders, as Black Panther believes them to be harmful to the wellbeing of his people. The Wakandan King enforces these policies through a culturally entrenched military, the Hatut Zerzae (a former secret police force turned mercenary group) & the Dora Milaje (the King’s all-female Praetorian Guard). In this sense, T’Challa expresses strikingly neo-Nazi tendencies. Lotta layers here
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Feb 2, 2018 11:34
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Sir Kodiak posted:He's definitely goofy in Homecoming, though admittedly not all that sad. He gets Donald Glover to talk to him by virtue of being a bit pathetic in his attempt to interrogate him.
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Feb 2, 2018 11:48
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Conal Cochran posted:The first episode of the Punisher is basically a gritty version of an episode of the Shadow, but twice the length and half as enjoyable. The first episode of The Punisher is Frank desperately trying to not be the Punisher but not knowing what else he could possibly be. As far as he knows he's already killed all the people responsible for murdering his family (mostly in Daredevil season 2) so he's got no reason to keep finding and killing more criminals. He sure as hell isn't capable of ever finding happiness again but he doesn't want to fall prey to rage any more, he's figuratively (and literally) hitting a brick wall over and over. The rest of the series is his descent/ascent into embracing his role as the Punisher.
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Feb 2, 2018 12:06
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Uncle Wemus posted:Lotta layers here Using tenant instead of tenet is a really good way of giving the reader an early indication that the writer decided a formal education was a Liberal con.
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Feb 2, 2018 12:41
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Uncle Wemus posted:Lotta layers here Isn't the whole point of the movie that Black Panther wants to open up his country to the world, and it's the anti-globalist who are the villains.
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Feb 2, 2018 12:43
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The MSJ posted:Isn't the whole point of the movie that Black Panther wants to open up his country to the world, and it's the anti-globalist who are the villains. Probably. I believe that was his father’s perspective in Civil War...that maybe pure isolationism is a bad thing.
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Feb 2, 2018 12:56
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The first episode of The Punisher is Frank desperately trying to not be the Punisher but not knowing what else he could possibly be. As far as he knows he's already killed all the people responsible for murdering his family (mostly in Daredevil season 2) so he's got no reason to keep finding and killing more criminals. He sure as hell isn't capable of ever finding happiness again but he doesn't want to fall prey to rage any more, he's figuratively (and literally) hitting a brick wall over and over. The rest of the series is his descent/ascent into embracing his role as the Punisher. Why do people keep explaining this show to others in this thread whenever they say something bad about it, like the only issue could possibly be that we're just to dumb to understand it?
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Feb 2, 2018 14:09
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The MSJ posted:Isn't the whole point of the movie that Black Panther wants to open up his country to the world, and it's the anti-globalist who are the villains. That's long been the speculation here. It will be hilarious if a bunch of alt-righters organize a field trip to see this opening day and their new hero turns out to be the exact opposite of what they expected.
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Feb 2, 2018 14:21
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"Will he be globalist or anti?" is maybe the worst hype for a superhero I've heard in my life.
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Feb 2, 2018 14:54
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:"Will he be globalist or anti?" is maybe the worst hype for a superhero I've heard in my life. With Spider-Man Homecoming, we had “will he be gentrified or not?”
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Feb 2, 2018 15:42
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Kurzon posted:Spider-Man is strong enough to effortlessly crush a man's skull with his bare hands. Peter must really suck if he can't scare people with that. He definitely needs to get better at that part of the job.
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Feb 2, 2018 16:38
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:In the comics, there is a point where Tony, stripped from his armor and slowly dying as his heart sputters, literally kludges together a death ray out of pieces of broken Ultron slavebots while Ultron mops the floor with his friends. IIRC at the last moment he tosses this molecular disassembler to Thor, the only one physically strong enough to shoot it, who blows Ultron away. I think that would have been a more dramatic climax than the movie where Thor, Hulk, Vision and Iron Man all just kinda gang-stomp Ultron for justice. Still has to be some kind of realization that he's not going to solve the world's ills with magical technology, but instead might manage to just barely maintain a bastion against chaos with it if he does his absolute best.
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Feb 2, 2018 17:08
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Sir Kodiak posted:He definitely needs to get better at that part of the job. Obligatory: 
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Feb 2, 2018 18:11
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THR posted this cool article about Wesley Snipes' attempt to get Black Panther made in the 1990s. It was before Blade (and probably the experience of trying to get it made helped when it came time to actually make Blade), and there's not a lot in there beyond "we wanted to make a movie that was probably beyond the realm of the technology at the time" and "we talked to John Singleton and he didn't share the vision we had" but it's a neat story nonetheless.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:41
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Conal Cochran posted:Why do people keep explaining this show to others in this thread whenever they say something bad about it, like the only issue could possibly be that we're just to dumb to understand it? because if that's not your complaint, then you are in a very, very, very tiny minority of the people who've complained about it. the vast majority of the negative reactions I've seen to Punisher were anger that it wasn't War Zone stretched out to 10 hours.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:57
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