|
Duckbox posted:One of the paradoxes of asymmetrical warfare is that if your intervention is premised on propaganda of the enemy as a weak and scattered "terrorist" peasant rabble, then it becomes a shocking upset any time they act like a normal army. If you pretend an invasion is just "moving the grass," then it's a a big surprise to see grass fight back. Granted, it is likely this way in part because all the powers involved are both funding their own proxy forces in other theaters while conducting their own major military operations. Everyone is loving everyone else and hoping what goes around doesn't come around (and it always does).
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 11:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:15 |
|
|
One down, so many more to go.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 11:31
|
|
|
Someone is sending a poo poo load of ATGMs to Kurdish forces: https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/960125679294713857 That's bad news for Turkish forces, if there's one thing we've learnt in Syria, it's ATGMs are the greatest equaliser.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 13:43
|
|
|
I guess we all get to find out how well Leopard's hold up. Other than those, what tanks does Turkey use anyway?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 13:56
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:I guess we all get to find out how well Leopard's hold up. Other than those, what tanks does Turkey use anyway? Lots of old but modernized Patton tanks of the m48 and m60 types in addition to some Leopard 1 tanks. The bulk of their tank forces are basically made up by older western tanks but it seems like the ones spearheading the Syrian ops are the newer Leopard 2 ones. But I recall reading something about the Turkish armed forces skimping out on some armor upgrades due to the financial crisis? I don't know if that was for the Leopard 2s though, or simply something regarding the continued use of old hardware.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 14:21
|
|
|
Turkey used at older A4/A5 variant of the Leopard 2, it is missing some of the more modern upgrades and several have already teen taken out around Al-Bab. Admittedly, they probably bought surplus A4/A5 Leopard 2's just because the more modern versions are that much more expensive especially if you want to field them across an entire army. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Feb 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 14:31
|
|
|
loving called it. Eat poo poo and missiles erdogan! Anybody know what type the tank they just blew up was? The resolution is too crap to make out E: ok i did say assad might send them manpads specifically, which im not sure the regime even uses extensively. iirc they rely on non-portable systems for air defense? Anyway. Is there a general term for guided missile systems categorically? lollontee fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Feb 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 14:41
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Someone is sending a poo poo load of ATGMs to Kurdish forces: Yeah but what these tweets say is that Turkey's pet jihadists (Zinki in this case) have intercepted the shipment. So all these ATGMs won't be used on Turkey's tanks, but presumably on the Assad regime's tanks once the genocide of the Afrin Kurds is completed to Erdogan's satisfaction.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 15:11
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:Yeah but what these tweets say is that Turkey's pet jihadists (Zinki in this case) have intercepted the shipment. So all these ATGMs won't be used on Turkey's tanks, but presumably on the Assad regime's tanks once the genocide of the Afrin Kurds is completed to Erdogan's satisfaction. Assuming this was the only shipment of note.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 15:20
|
|
|
This seems great. https://twitter.com/abdbozkurt/status/959089711024427009
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 16:10
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:This seems great. Eagerly anticipating Erdogan shaving two separate quarters of his mustache.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 16:25
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Someone is sending a poo poo load of ATGMs to Kurdish forces: Why the Turks first move wasn't to cut off the bulk of Afrin canton from Assad I'll never know. Do they not get the concept of cutting off your enemy's ability to resupply and reinforce? Saw the same thing in the battle for al-Bab, which took a heavy toll (on them, the TFSA, and the city itself) because of precisely that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 17:20
|
|
|
Radio Prune posted:Why the Turks first move wasn't to cut off the bulk of Afrin canton from Assad I'll never know. Do they not get the concept of cutting off your enemy's ability to resupply and reinforce? Saw the same thing in the battle for al-Bab, which took a heavy toll (on them, the TFSA, and the city itself) because of precisely that. Because that would have required Turkish army troops attacking regime positions, which would've led them to be bombed by Russian planes. Erdogan definately doesn't want to get into open conflict with Russia at this point, so they're stuck with the one front they have on Afrin.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
lollontee posted:Because that would have required Turkish army troops attacking regime positions No it wouldn't.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Someone is sending a poo poo load of ATGMs to Kurdish forces: https://twitter.com/AllyOfTruth/status/959912178223669248 quote:Well I guess its not THAT special... and to some not THAT surprising...
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 18:19
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68i1ByXHEio the russian pilot blew himself up. this will anger the pro-regime people for whom suicide bombing=terrorism
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 19:27
|
|
|
How and where did Zenki intercept this shipment?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 19:58
|
|
|
Radio Prune posted:No it wouldn't. Oh word? So tell me, how do you encircle Afrin without holding Aleppo? Or is your suggestion that the Free Turkish Army has somehow in the intervening time transformed into a force capable of taking Aleppo back from the Regime on its own?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 20:09
|
|
|
lollontee posted:Oh word? So tell me, how do you encircle Afrin without holding Aleppo? Or is your suggestion that the Free Turkish Army has somehow in the intervening time transformed into a force capable of taking Aleppo back from the Regime on its own? I think the point was that they could have prioritized attacking the YPG territory adjacent to regime positions first instead of attacking from the Turkish border. It's a long stretch of land though, so it's not like it would have been a quick fix before getting to the stuff they really care about. Plus it would have left them exposed in the rear if Assad did decide to gently caress with the TFSA. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Feb 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 20:12
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:I think the point was that they could have prioritized attacking the YPG territory adjacent to regime positions first instead of attacking from the Turkish border. It's a long stretch of land though, so it's not like it would have been a quick fix before getting to the stuff they really care about. Plus it would have left them exposed in the rear if Assad did decide to gently caress with the TFSA. YPG territory next to regime positions is uhh... A mountain. A range of mountain.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 20:21
|
|
|
lollontee posted:YPG territory next to regime positions is uhh... A mountain. A range of mountain. So is a lot of the rest of the territory Turkey's been fighting in?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 20:29
|
|
|
Didn't realise Aleppo had somehow teleported itself to somewhere between Darat Izzah and Menagh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 20:51
|
|
|
Radio Prune posted:Didn't realise Aleppo had somehow teleported itself to somewhere between Darat Izzah and Menagh. Are you dense? I said mountains you dolt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harim_Mountains lollontee fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Feb 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
You do not march through that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:04
|
|
|
lollontee posted:Are you dense? I said mountains you dolt. lollontee posted:Oh word? So tell me, how do you encircle Afrin without holding Aleppo? Or is your suggestion that the Free Turkish Army has somehow in the intervening time transformed into a force capable of taking Aleppo back from the Regime on its own?  Besides, the area Turkey and the TFSA has been primarily advancing into is more rugged than the area I'm talking about so 
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:17
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:So is a lot of the rest of the territory Turkey's been fighting in? Much smaller, with roads and valleys running through them and opening into plateaus. The Harim mountains on the other hand, have no roads running along them, and maybe one running through them connecting SDF and regime areas. Not gonna happen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:17
|
|
|
lollontee posted:YPG territory next to regime positions is uhh... A mountain. A range of mountain. lollontee posted:YPG territory next to regime positions is uhh... A mountain. A range of mountain. lollontee posted:YPG territory next to regime positions is uhh... A mountain. A range of mountain. lollontee posted:YPG territory next to regime positions is uhh... A mountain. A range of mountain.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:20
|
|
|
Go look at a map.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:20
|
|
|
lollontee posted:YPG territory next to regime positions is uhh... A mountain. A range of mountain.  Here's the thing though, you might recognize the names Nubl and Zahraa because they were sieged by the rebels for years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Nubl_and_Al-Zahraa  (Sidenote, holy poo poo things have changed in 3 years.) Assad and the SAA would most likely hit the roof if Turkish backed rebels started attacking the YPG areas to the west of Nubl and Zahraa. This is because they know that such an attack could very easily lead to a renewed besieging of Nubl and Zahraa when Nusra and company decide "hey, the TFSA is attacking the west, let's attack that thin SAA salient in the east!". I'm actually a little surprised the SAA hasn't pushed on Biyanun and Hayyan to make that salient a little less precarious. E: Some more history: quote:After months of rebel siege and continuous reciprocal kidnappings, popular committees in [Nubl and Zahraa] agreed to begin negotiations with Sunni rebels on 27 March 2013. The agreement to negotiate was organised by Kurdish parties from the neighbouring Kurd Dagh region, controlled by Kurdish separatists of the PYD. The talks were to be brokered by Kurds, and several kidnapped individuals had been freed on both sides. Over the following years, the only land route that brought some food and essential goods came from the Kurdish-held town of Afrin, to the north. Saladin Rising fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:31
|
|
|
The topographic map I'm looking at shows the area I'm talking about to be less mountainous than the primary area of Turkish operations in the border area.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:33
|
|
|
Radio Prune posted:The topographic map I'm looking at shows the area I'm talking about to be less mountainous than the primary area of Turkish operations in the border area. They've been seizing the heights along the border for the same reason Israel held onto the Golan. They're a natural emplacement for anyone looking to lob rockets or shells into Turkey so the Turks want them for themselves.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
I like maps
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 21:59
|
|
|
Turkey could theoretically have encircled Afrin, but I think their idea is to bleed the SDF until Afrin accedes to SAA control. That way, Turkey doesnt have to occupy much of the canton or deal with the awkwardness of telling the TFSA to give land back to the SAA.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 22:07
|
|
|
HEY EVERYONE HAVE A HOT TAKE https://www.mintpressnews.com/10-curious-facts-isis-media-ignores/236996/
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 23:33
|
|
|
SSNeoman posted:HEY EVERYONE HAVE A HOT TAKE https://www.mintpressnews.com/10-curious-facts-isis-media-ignores/236996/ Why even bother posting that. Its your standard "just asking questions" conspiracy stuff, just in a top 10 list for more clicks. Its seriously not worth anyone's time, especially now with IS basically spent as a force.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 00:43
|
|
|
So the really bad and dumb discussion about topography aggrevated me into overlaying the Turkish advance on Syria's topography: Borders are a bit faint because  but I'm not going to waste the time vectorizing that poo poo so it looks nice. Resolution on the DEM is roughly 90 meters. Contrary to lollontee's semi-coherent position, the Turkish aligned forces would not have to go through Aleppo, but they would have to go through Tall Rif'at and would be exposed to regime positions in Zahraa as Saladin Rising pointed out. The prospect of a prolonged siege is not something anyone I think would cherish. Turkish forces occupied the rugged hills south of Efrin before the operation began, which I presume was done primarily to cut Kurds off from potential resupply prior to the invasion. There's still a good amount of hill country west of Zahraa but compared to the terrain they have chosen to concentrate their offensive against it looks positively gentle. Interestingly Turkish forces seem to be avoiding the flat valleys that would seem to invite a rapid mechanized advance. I presume this is because forces advancing on a place like Jandaris in the west would be vulnerable to ambush by anti-tank weapons. I'm not sure what the conventional military tactics are for operating in this kind of terrain but if anyone wants to explore a high resolution terrain data this site is a good source: https://market.trimbledata.com/#/da...56640625&zoom=9
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
This letter was allegedly found on the shot-down Russian pilot. The Syriac Military Council is denouncing Turkish fascism, colonialism, and genocidal intent in a press release. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 13:46
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:This letter was allegedly found on the shot-down Russian pilot. i think that's just him asking for a medal i'm sure he'll get it, now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 13:53
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/960518332502900736
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 15:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:15 |
|
|
Well it’s pre-Turkish so why would they care?
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2018 15:47
|
|
