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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What are the odds we'll be able to find more written records in these locations? Hope springs eternal, but paper does not.
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Feb 4, 2018 01:11
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That's a new thread title if ever I heard one
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Feb 4, 2018 01:31
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What are the odds we'll be able to find more written records in these locations? It would be cool if we did, for sure. I think one of the reasons why pre-Columbian civilizations don't get more respect is because of the relative lack of writing and literature.
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Feb 4, 2018 02:19
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Part of the problem is that they are overshadowed by the Aztecs. We know a lot about Cortez's campaigns against Montezuma and Tenochitlan, but overlook the ruthless multi-decade campaign that destroyed the Maya states in southern Mexico and Guatemala.
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Feb 4, 2018 02:34
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and, more pragmatically, overshadowed by thick jungle
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Feb 4, 2018 02:48
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Its gonna be fun seeing how much of thats been looted already/by the time some archaeologists get out there.
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Feb 4, 2018 03:03
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Telsa Cola posted:Its gonna be fun seeing how much of thats been looted already/by the time some archaeologists get out there. Past lidar acquisitions revealing ruins have had their ground model smoothed to a terrible resolution before being released to prevent exactly that
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Feb 4, 2018 03:30
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sullat posted:Part of the problem is that they are overshadowed by the Aztecs. We know a lot about Cortez's campaigns against Montezuma and Tenochitlan, but overlook the ruthless multi-decade campaign that destroyed the Maya states in southern Mexico and Guatemala. Plus, a lot of the Mayan cities had already been abandoned by the time the Spanish showed up.
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Feb 4, 2018 03:40
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Senor Dog posted:How many have you heard try this, exactly too many see also: pahwee, bowf birgeenyon, the famous loo
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Feb 4, 2018 03:48
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fantastic in plastic posted:It would be cool if we did, for sure. I think one of the reasons why pre-Columbian civilizations don't get more respect is because of the relative lack of writing and literature. A lot of it is because of conquest era destruction too. The Spanish burned “heretical pagan books” wherever they went. There are some accounts of the purge of Aztec writings that will make you want to cry.
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Feb 4, 2018 05:07
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Cyrano4747 posted:A lot of it is because of conquest era destruction too. The Spanish burned “heretical pagan books” wherever they went. There are some accounts of the purge of Aztec writings that will make you want to cry. Yeah that's what I was thinking of. Every time I read about newly discovered south American ruins, I hope "maybe the Spanish missed these". Oh, for a Mayan Edda . . .
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Feb 4, 2018 05:15
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Kiss my rear end, that twitter line. HoweverHieronymous Alloy posted:What are the odds we'll be able to find more written records in these locations? Pretty good. The vast majority of Mayan writing we have comes from steles and stuff so there's probably some of those. Books... I doubt it. 500 years in that environment for wooden books is not great. But there's always the possibility of Weird Peat Bog Type poo poo so you can never be sure. Also if they dumped things into a local cenote and, for some reason, it's oxygen-free that might preserve the way the Black Sea does.
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Feb 4, 2018 05:32
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Epicurius posted:Plus, a lot of the Mayan cities had already been abandoned by the time the Spanish showed up. The big tourist sites in the Yucatan, yeah. But there was a thriving Maya civilization in the southern highlands that was pretty comprehensively destroyed by the Spanish. The abandoned cities are in better condition since they didn't get the Spanish treatment, so we know more about them.
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Feb 4, 2018 06:00
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cheetah7071 posted:Past lidar acquisitions revealing ruins have had their ground model smoothed to a terrible resolution before being released to prevent exactly that I wasn’t talking about looting due to the info release. Locals normally kinda know where poo poo is at most of the time and they plow a trench through temples frequently. The news might cause that to resurge though. People somehow get backhoes to sites miles in jungle and that astounds me. Its a huge problem in Belize and currently the focus of a national education campaign there. Edit: Yeah looking at the map and the fact them mention is kinda near Tikal its gonna be looted to poo poo. But that always happens and they always miss things. sullat posted:The big tourist sites in the Yucatan, yeah. But there was a thriving Maya civilization in the southern highlands that was pretty comprehensively destroyed by the Spanish. The abandoned cities are in better condition since they didn't get the Spanish treatment, so we know more about them. Most of the cities are overgrown or plowed over, only a couple things got demolished to make churches and poo poo. Go on a drive out between Belize and Guatemala and something like 60-70% of the mounds you see are structures. Plus there are good chances that some of the things we think got damaged by the Spanish weren’t and its just people pulling bricks and poo poo off over the years which we know happened. Edit: Well some cities basically got demolished and built over but I wouldn’t really hang that on the Spanish comprehensively destroying poo poo and more people tearing poo poo down for supplies and space. Cyrano4747 posted:A lot of it is because of conquest era destruction too. The Spanish burned “heretical pagan books” wherever they went. There are some accounts of the purge of Aztec writings that will make you want to cry. They were kinda fine with it until Landa freaked the gently caress out when he learned some Maya falsely converted. In response he gathered every book and idol he could get and burned them. Thats as far as we know the single biggest contributor to the scarcity of the codices. Also it likely didn’t help the writing system collapsed pretty badly before the Spanish even showed up. Anyways fun fact, the coolest Maya themed research thesis I have seen was underwater arch done by diving and surveying remote cenotes. They had to hike their scuba gear onto site which sounds just lovely during the summer there. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Feb 4, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 06:46
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gently caress Spain
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Feb 4, 2018 11:47
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They also did something similar with the incan quipus. We have some surviving examples left so that we know they were a thing that they used to record information, but we don't have enough with proper context to really be able to hazard a guess at what they mean.
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Feb 4, 2018 16:10
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Cyrano4747 posted:They also did something similar with the incan quipus. We have some surviving examples left so that we know they were a thing that they used to record information, but we don't have enough with proper context to really be able to hazard a guess at what they mean. a dude made some pretty big progress towards interpretation last year: https://read.dukeupress.edu/ethnohistory/article/65/1/1/133085/Toward-the-Decipherment-of-a-Set-of-Mid-Colonial
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Feb 4, 2018 18:20
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I recently realized Cleopatra lived closer to modern day than she did to when (most of) the pyramids were built. I'd like to learn more about Egypt. Can goons recommend some interesting sources for learning about Egypt pre-Assyrian conquest? I'm especially interested in their gods and agricultural practices, but everything is good.
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Feb 6, 2018 03:25
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LLSix posted:I recently realized Cleopatra lived closer to modern day than she did to when (most of) the pyramids were built. I'd like to learn more about Egypt. Can goons recommend some interesting sources for learning about Egypt pre-Assyrian conquest? I'm especially interested in their gods and agricultural practices, but everything is good. Kinda of blows the mind how much history we dont know. When I die I hope I learn all of times mysteries. Too bad I'll most likely just be sitting in a pit of fire. Sizzle.
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Feb 6, 2018 04:20
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LingcodKilla posted:Kinda of blows the mind how much history we dont know. When I die I hope I learn all of times mysteries. Learning all of the history we don’t know is a terrifying hell imo but I am admittedly no hellenistic expert
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Feb 6, 2018 04:33
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LLSix posted:I recently realized Cleopatra lived closer to modern day than she did to when (most of) the pyramids were built. I'd like to learn more about Egypt. Can goons recommend some interesting sources for learning about Egypt pre-Assyrian conquest? I'm especially interested in their gods and agricultural practices, but everything is good. There's the Hystery of Egypt Podcast for you.
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Feb 6, 2018 04:53
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LLSix posted:I recently realized Cleopatra lived closer to modern day than she did to when (most of) the pyramids were built. I'd like to learn more about Egypt. Can goons recommend some interesting sources for learning about Egypt pre-Assyrian conquest? I'm especially interested in their gods and agricultural practices, but everything is good. There is a book called "Red Land, Black Land" by someone I don't remember that focuses on the daily life and beliefs of ancient egyptians. It was a really fun read. One thing that stands out to me is how it argued against the idea that the egyptians were obsessed with death. It argues, rather, that they had a very good thing going, for the time. They lived well compared to their neighbours and they loved life, and that's why they were very meticulous about trying to ensure that life kept happening even after death. Accurate or not I love the sentiment. It also hit on the sentiment you're expressing: New Kingdom egyptians that lived centuries before Rome was founded still looked back at stuff like the pyramids and marveled. They knew they were heirs to something amazing. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Feb 6, 2018 |
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Feb 6, 2018 05:37
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:They lived well compared to their neighbours and they loved life
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Feb 6, 2018 06:40
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Their board game was loving awful and boring it's no wonder that Sumerian games were more popular.
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Feb 6, 2018 08:04
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Egypt old as hell, dudes
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Feb 6, 2018 08:47
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5000 years of history but, like, for real.
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Feb 6, 2018 08:53
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Kassad posted:5000 years of history but, like, for real. Doesnt count because they arent the same culture as back then like the glorious Han  請尊敬中國的歷史Also seconding the sentiment of "gently caress Spain". There are so many cultures and histories we will never know more about because of them.
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Feb 6, 2018 08:58
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Did Spain destroy a ton of old Celt/Iberian/Celtoiberian stuff or was that mostly just the Romans?
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Feb 6, 2018 14:30
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Don Gato posted:Doesnt count because they arent the same culture as back then like the glorious Han Egypt has a few people who can speak Coptic, which is the same language as Ancient Egyptian and has a written history of almost 6000 years.
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Feb 6, 2018 14:46
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Egypt has a few people who can speak Coptic, which is the same language as Ancient Egyptian and has a written history of almost 6000 years. I mean, if that's what we're going for, written Greek goes back 3500 years (written in Linear B, in Mycenae), which is about when written Chinese shows up.
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Feb 6, 2018 15:42
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Arglebargle III posted:There's the Hystery of Egypt Podcast for you. By an actual Egyptologist, who can read hieroglyphs and sometimes takes a timeout to go digging. This podcast doesn't gently caress around. (And I assume that's a typo  )
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Feb 6, 2018 17:41
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Was "firewater' ever legit Indian/frontier slang?
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Feb 6, 2018 20:45
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Zopotantor posted:
Turns out ancient Egypt was a feminist matriarchy.
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Feb 6, 2018 20:46
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Baron Porkface posted:Was "firewater' ever legit Indian/frontier slang? Yeah, it’s a calque from some Indian language I believe.
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Feb 6, 2018 20:49
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Baron Porkface posted:Was "firewater' ever legit Indian/frontier slang? Possibly, looks like the Ojibwe word for alcohol is "ishkodewaaboo" which is fire (ishkode) + liquid (aaboo). Some other related languages have a similar construction.
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Feb 6, 2018 20:49
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Firewater is a pretty good name for it honestly
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Feb 6, 2018 20:56
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Especially considering the kind of poo poo moonshine they were getting, good lord.
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Feb 6, 2018 20:58
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skasion posted:Yeah, it’s a calque from some Indian language I believe. i am very fond of calques, one of them will be the title of my book
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Feb 6, 2018 21:19
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HEY GUNS posted:i am very fond of calques, one of them will be the title of my book “Cannon fodder, a story of a pike square.”
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Feb 6, 2018 21:21
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Zopotantor posted:By an actual Egyptologist, who can read hieroglyphs and sometimes takes a timeout to go digging. This podcast doesn't gently caress around. I've been listening to this guy's podcast for years and it's been rad as hell almost every episode. The one he did about AC:Origins was a surprise for a lot of reasons.
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Feb 6, 2018 22:07
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