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Helsing posted:This is probably the lamest (and laziest) kind of political criticism imaginable but I feel like at this rate Trudeau Jr. is barely going to be remembered in 20 years. The sheer vacuity and banality of his government up to this point is remarkable. The conversation turned to Trump bashing at a business lunch the other day and like clockwork, oooh remember when Trudeau won the handshake with Trump, that was so amazing, [re-enactment with details]. Everybody seems to remember that.
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Feb 5, 2018 02:37
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the argument is literally "we are decriminalizing weed because it's not like other drugs" - which is an argument that has been accepted by the likes of our parents moment he starts to waver on that message it's open season on accusations of ideological decriminalization
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Feb 5, 2018 02:39
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pfizerman posted:the argument is literally "we are decriminalizing weed because it's not like other drugs" - which is an argument that has been accepted by the likes of our parents That's an interesting take. I've long wondered about the dual messaging.
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Feb 5, 2018 02:50
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I also think the legal weed thing in Canada is a nice illustration of the relative state of our democracy in comparison to the US. Legalizing or decriminalizing cannabis has fairly wide support in the country - over 50% by most polls. And lo and behold, it's actually happening. More impressive is the fact that for the most part, the conservative opposition that I've seen has been more about technical issues than anything else. Their hearts aren't really in it, because they know that much of their base has no real problem with legal weed. A pretty similar percent of the US population favours some kind of legalization/decriminalization, but it will simply never happen at a federal level. It would be a third rail for the democrats, who'd see it as alienating the suburban republican voters they're trying to court, and of course the republicans themselves wouldn't go near it for fear of alienating the reactionary geriatrics in the bible belt. The fact that we occasionally can make progress in getting something people want is not a trivial point of superiority, it's really quite meaningful. Especially considering we've already won some fights that the US parties haven't even made an official part of their agenda yet (I'm thinking of universal healthcare, cheaper university education, fewer wars). Even just poo poo like getting rid of the penny, or replacing the $1 bill with the loonie, or the new plastic money. These things are so far away from ever happening in the US (despite widespread support), it really makes you glad to live in a somewhat more functional democracy.
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Feb 5, 2018 04:36
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Are you really using the deteriorating public health system and ever rising prices of post-secondary education as points to show that our government is worth poo poo? Healthcare will only be more and more privatized and education more and more expensive in our ridiculous pathetic future. Being better than America does not mean a god drat thing, America is a joke, serving as little more than an eternally unheeded warning of the future of our own idiot country. Who cares if our government is still technically functional when the parties in power have no goals or interests beyond moving money from the public into the hands of wealthy private interests? ChairMaster has issued a correction as of 05:32 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 05:29
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Yeah I should have mentioned that all those good things are either actively under attack, or on the road to being rendered so lovely through neglect that they're eventually sold for scrap under our lovely neoliberal system. However, I've been living in Texas for the past few years and I'm pretty convinced that the US is irredeemably hosed politically, and nothing short of a third party taking government (which will basically never happen) will ever make the federal government functional for anything apart from funding the military. At least the left is seeing somewhat of a resurgence in the US; Trudeau (like Obama) puts the left to sleep and can get away with pretty much anything. A simpler way of putting this is 'living in the US significantly lowers your expectations' funny song about politics has issued a correction as of 06:12 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 06:10
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ah yes, the massive wave of healthcare privatization that didnt happen under canada's most conservative government in decades but will definitely happen, in this one,
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Feb 5, 2018 06:15
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It hasn't gotten bad enough yet. But if it's allowed to decay through neglect to the point where large numbers of people are dissatisfied or dying, privatization of select parts will be offered by whoever's in power at the time. It'll seem like a good idea, because people in general won't appreciate that the decline of the system is not a natural phenomenon, but a conscious decision played out over many years. And if it's a liberal government that does it, it'll be an even easier sell because "they're the good smart guys and this is the best we can ask for".
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Feb 5, 2018 06:21
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Fallen Hamprince posted:ah yes, the massive wave of healthcare privatization that didnt happen under canada's most conservative government in decades but will definitely happen, in this one, lol if you think the Liberals are not the party to privatize healthcare when it eventually happens. They can easily get away with more than the Conservatives, because they're smart enough to adopt the language of progress and trick all the idiot Canadians into thinking that they're the good guys. They can do incredibly horrible things to the very fabric of society and get away with it by having a 50% female cabinet, and privatization is their specialty.
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Feb 5, 2018 06:56
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Fallen Hamprince posted:ah yes, the massive wave of healthcare privatization that didnt happen under canada's most conservative government in decades but will definitely happen, in this one, ah yes the massive trend towards nationalization that we haven’t seen since before the fall of the loving Soviet Union but which is definitely right around the corner, because,
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Feb 5, 2018 10:24
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https://twitter.com/michaeldunbarjr/status/959993329688698880 url parser is hosed infernal machines has issued a correction as of 16:09 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 16:04
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infernal machines posted:https:/twitter.com/michaeldunbarjr/status/959993329688698880
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Feb 5, 2018 16:08
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pfizerman posted:the argument is literally "we are decriminalizing weed because it's not like other drugs" - which is an argument that has been accepted by the likes of our parents I don't know why this is puzzling to you guys, Liberal Policy is a flowchart. Overarching federal policies are basically determined by "Does it help our rich friends get richer?" or "Does more than 50% of the country solidly support this?". The Liberals will never take a chance on anything that doesn't either get them more money or no votes and because of that any progress under majority Liberal governments is stalled. Fallen Hamprince posted:ah yes, the massive wave of healthcare privatization that didnt happen under canada's most conservative government in decades but will definitely happen, in this one, Healthcare is under attack at this moment. Harper was incredibly Conservative and would have done poo poo like banning gay marriage and abortions again if he had the capital, but even he understood that those positions would toxic politically and never spoke about them publicly in his time and kept the social conservative wing of his party quiet for the most part. He did cut funding to parts of government that were against his views as a way of slowly strangling out those positions. Healthcare is one of those positions and with all the tinkering Harper did, which the Liberals refuse to change, provinces are basically hosed sideways when it comes to funding healthcare. Over the next 20 years we are going to slowly develop a 2-tier system for MRIs, X-Rays, Homecare, basically anything outside of ER care because there's simply not enough money being pumped in via Federal transfers.
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Feb 5, 2018 17:06
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Yes! Doug Ford is back baybeee! Just what legal weeds really calls for. A Fordathon
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Feb 5, 2018 19:23
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https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/960560363803734017 Godspeed
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Feb 5, 2018 20:36
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America is crashing and we're next 
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Feb 5, 2018 23:09
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Racism, Canadian styleWaffleLove posted:The politics of working with FN employee's is a lot of hassle for no reason at times(I understand why it got like that it just a pain in the rear end)...
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Feb 6, 2018 13:54
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if people aren't going to wage class war on the rich then mother nature will pick up the slack
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Feb 6, 2018 14:25
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infernal machines posted:Racism, Canadian style Try to have a real dialogue and 
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Feb 6, 2018 15:11
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Stickarts posted:Try to have a real dialogue and It's really deeply ingrained though, to the point that I'd bet WaffleLove doesn't even consider that post racist.
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Feb 6, 2018 15:16
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Talking about race as a whitey is exhausting, and I get to pick up my toys and go home whenever I want.
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Feb 6, 2018 15:26
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Have either of you ever been involved in working with large numbers of FN employees from remote communities?
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Feb 6, 2018 15:28
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I worked on a couple of reserves in my youth and the level of poverty is staggering. I mean like shanty town level poverty.
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Feb 6, 2018 15:32
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tbh he's not wrong, but is actually just describing what working up north is like regardless of race
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Feb 6, 2018 15:36
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Reince Penis posted:I worked on a couple of reserves in my youth and the level of poverty is staggering. I mean like shanty town level poverty. I don't think anyone doubts that. Just like I don't think anyone is suggesting there are no crimes committed by people who belong to FN communities. The difference is how it's framed, see the "they" that crops up, and the acknowledgement that actually plenty of people show up to work hosed up, but here we're just focusing on the FN people, because the point of the anecdote is how messed up "they" are.
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Feb 6, 2018 15:38
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I went to school with a bunch of First Nations kids when I was in grade 6 or 7, and, oddly enough, it turns out when they aren't getting systematically hosed around by prejudice, poverty, and all the other poo poo we heap on First Nations communities, they're actually really nice people for the most part, like literally every other group of people on earth. But oh boy, moving from a long way away from that area, did 11-year-old PT6A sure not understand the politics involved with hanging out and playing basketball with the native kids...
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Feb 6, 2018 15:40
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Like, we'll cluck our tongues at Americans for unabashed anti-black racism, but using exactly the same terminology, say "well that's just describing how it is" when talking about FN/aboriginals here in Canada.
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Feb 6, 2018 15:41
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lowly abject turd posted:tbh he's not wrong, but is actually just describing what working up north is like regardless of race Sure, except he specifically calls out First Nations people, before acknowledging that actually pretty much everybody is doing that poo poo. Because the post was about how bad it is to work with natives, not how bad it is to work in the north.
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Feb 6, 2018 15:53
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Yeah I don't know how pluralising anecdotes does much, but I have decade+ close personal ties to local Indig communities including a nearby rural reserve that I gone to multiple times for powwows, etc. I guess our anecdotes can arm wrestle each other for supremacy. I understand what you're trying to describe. But whatever you - as a businessperson - sees as deficiencies of the community that makes them "bad workers", I think are better understood as deficiencies of the society/State that put them, generation after generation, in a situation of abandonment, desperation, and defeat to the point now that they have no real opportunity nor ability to honestly engage in any economy. There are a huge amount of soft skills and formal training, learned over a lifetime, that goes into holding down a steady, successful job. And there hasn't been a chance at a real job on-reserve in most cases in 100 years. Agency and self-actualisation are learned traits, not innate. The TRC discusses this head-on about how residential schools robbed generation after generation of people of any parenting skills, each generation compounding and entrenching the issues of the past. Which means we don't get to sit back and cluck our tongues in righteous pity when we see social ills manifest. We designed it that way and it's a feature not a bug. The issue I take is the way you framed your discussion - it was not around sociological factors that influence rates of underclass criminality, it was around workers not doing what their boss wanted and being "bad for business". Which is to say it was a discussion of symptom without illness, and effect without cause. e. infernal stole my words including, apparently, "cluck" and "framing"
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Feb 6, 2018 15:56
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Allow me to demonstratecougar cub posted:Have either of you ever been involved in working with large numbers of black employees from urban communities?
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Feb 6, 2018 15:59
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Population: 900 Calls for police service (annually): 1600 Number of calls involving firearms: At least half Number of firearms carried by non-Indigenous law enforcement: Zero Dude I went to college with had some stories to tell about his time up north in Quebec, but it was mainly about how hosed a society under those circumstances must inevitably become, and less about how those dang lazy good-for-etcetc. Basically PT6A posted:it turns out when they aren't getting systematically hosed around by prejudice, poverty, and all the other poo poo we heap on First Nations communities, they're actually really nice people for the most part, like literally every other group of people on earth. this but with a heavy-lidded look of exasperation while speaking.
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Feb 6, 2018 16:06
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You'd think it would go without saying that a century and a half of abortive attempts at genocide and extreme marginalization will have some negative societal effects, but welp.
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Feb 6, 2018 16:21
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infernal machines posted:You'd think it would go without saying that a century and a half of abortive attempts at genocide and extreme marginalization will have some negative societal effects, but welp. But, when you think about it, is that really worse than not showing up to work on time???
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Feb 6, 2018 16:24
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infernal machines posted:You'd think it would go without saying that a century and a half of abortive attempts at genocide and extreme marginalization will have some negative societal effects, but welp. That would require both insight and the sketchiest imitation of critical thinking.
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Feb 6, 2018 16:27
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PT6A posted:But, when you think about it, is that really worse than not showing up to work on time??? Vote CPC!!!
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Feb 6, 2018 16:28
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https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/960898293923549184
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Feb 6, 2018 16:32
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cougar cub, I get your frustration. My brother is a small homebuilder. I have worked off and on with him from day one doing everything from framing and finishing work, to site and trades management, to pushing a broom. I understand the investment you have in making your business succeed and the way your energies tunnel vision into it. But your frustration towards the situation you are expressing here is butting up against literal centuries of colonial violence. It's not that you're wrong, per se, it is that your treatment and/or understanding of the issue is incomplete/lacking in critical context. At least in the way you're presenting it.
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Feb 6, 2018 16:32
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I love my mother and I don't know how to tell her that her facebook activity is edging into "racist grandma" territory, cause so far as I know she's no bigot, but jesus christ no the Khadr settlement has nothing to do with VAC's budget being too small to pay out lifelong pensions to vets who were injured after the change to lump-sum "benefits". e: If you're not following DPRK_News maybe do that, they're pretty consistently good
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Feb 6, 2018 16:36
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Stickarts posted:cougar cub, I get your frustration. My brother is a small homebuilder. I have worked off and on with him from day one doing everything from framing and finishing work, to site and trades management, to pushing a broom. I understand the investment you have in making your business succeed and the way your energies tunnel vision into it. Is half this conversation happening via PMs or am I missing a bunch of posts here?
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Feb 6, 2018 16:51
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Nah, still just the post in Can-Pol proper. I guess I'm just trying to empathise and meet halfway/try to understand someone else's perspective and respond to them from there. Getting into the mindset of small business! Suddenly I feel the urge to cut taxes and gut labour laws. e. And eat babies.
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Feb 6, 2018 16:54
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