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Right, and changing ways has a bit in it with the Glass Walker perspective of "Vaccines might have banes in them, but they also work, and performing a cleansing ritual on a few kids is worth the time and gently caress any Theurge who says otherwise." The Pentex handbook is tounge-in-cheek enough that I read that paragraph as "In the real world vaccines work but in the world of darkness they are literally evil because lol."
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Feb 6, 2018 21:06
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The entire Pentex book is propaganda though? Like, Magadon is the monopoly and all but it's pretty explicit that THEIR stuff is evil because, ya know, Pentex. I agree it's clumsy and could be better done but I really didn't get the anti-vaxx angle. Maybe a line like 'and we of course encourage OUR drugs to be the norm because our patented unique formulas have a blahblahblah increased success rate (and totally have banes in em)' to make it more clear Rando Pharma corp probably isn't putting banes in flu shots. Also yea, Ways has some poo poo in it but they do have the Walkers explicitly saying 'no what that's stupid, we watch the drugs and are ready to fix kids up when they get squirrely but vaccines are objectively good'.
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Feb 6, 2018 23:44
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Kurieg posted:Well, there are methods that do work on Garou, and the nation is decidedly against them. And apparently all garou subconciously want their children so most of the time they'll frenzy during the abortion proceedings. Also apparently the womb in a pregnant Crinos Garou draws up into their ribcage to better protect the fetus in combat. Have they... have they heard of the Black Furies or... oh, nevermind.
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Feb 6, 2018 23:51
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Dawgstar posted:Have they... have they heard of the Black Furies or... oh, nevermind. One of the few things we've heard about W5 so far is that the black furies have apparently abandoned mankind to their own devices until they become sufficiently woke to withstand the feminist truth.
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Feb 6, 2018 23:58
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Kurieg posted:One of the few things we've heard about W5 so far is that the black furies have apparently abandoned mankind to their own devices until they become sufficiently woke to withstand the feminist truth. I'm almost morbidly curious if they'll go hard back on the Catholic Church/Patriarch-as-Wyrm spirit/totem/whatever.* *Thanks, Phil!
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Feb 7, 2018 00:08
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Kurieg posted:One of the few things we've heard about W5 so far is that the black furies have apparently abandoned mankind to their own devices until they become sufficiently woke to withstand the feminist truth. I'd kinda like a Werewolf with more radical elements in tribes about causes other than the basic fight. Like, the Red Talons make an interesting concept, having a whole tribe around various levels of 'no, gently caress humanity, those idiots are why we're here' is interesting because it gives a foil that can be pretty sympathetic at times while not going into full antagonism. Having a Fury movement around 'nah let's just break off into our own badass amazon island or something' can be cool to play off. It's hard to tell someone who's human cover is protecting abuse victims and all that maybe she needs to give men a chance, her going 'nah, goin to Amazon Island, eat it guys' is kinda justified even if her less radical sisterhood would say 'but that's literally how everything got hosed up to begin with' and have fair reason to do that too. The problem is instead of making them factions they just made the whole tribes like that and they have probably the worst WW writers working on it (not everyone on the team obvs, more 'a couple lovely apples spoil the bunch') so it just comes off as "UGH FEMINAZIS JUST WANNA LET MEN DIE HUH"
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Feb 7, 2018 00:46
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sexpig by night posted:I'd kinda like a Werewolf with more radical elements in tribes about causes other than the basic fight. That's Forsaken. Choose your enemy, because they're dangerous or you believe they're dangerous. You can fight pollution, polluters, abusers, people with fake IDs, demigods of fire, magic rats.
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Feb 7, 2018 00:50
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Forsaken 2E is a good game that's absolutely terrible at presenting itself. If you can get past the conlang bullshit and the organizational issues that seem to plague every nWoD line, it's an even weirder and more original take on its subject matter than Demon is in some ways.
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Feb 7, 2018 00:53
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nofather posted:That's Forsaken. Choose your enemy, because they're dangerous or you believe they're dangerous. You can fight pollution, polluters, abusers, people with fake IDs, demigods of fire, magic rats. In fairness, Forsaken also declares that the Red Talons and the Silver Fangs are villain subgroups. Seriously, the Predator Kings and Ivory Claws are just straight up Red Talon and Silver Fang, sans any apologism. It takes some odd circumstances (fringe group Ivory Claws in Amish country who are significantly less Nazi Eugenics Movement or Outback Predator Kings who legit just do not have to give a poo poo about anything but hunting big monster spirits) for them to be friends.
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Feb 7, 2018 00:56
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Forsaken 2E is a good game that's absolutely terrible at presenting itself. If you can get past the conlang bullshit and the organizational issues that seem to plague every nWoD line, it's an even weirder and more original take on its subject matter than Demon is in some ways. Yes it's a brick wall not everyone can overcome. But if you want werewolf where you get to choose the fight, there you are. Mors Rattus posted:Seriously, the Predator Kings and Ivory Claws are just straight up Red Talon and Silver Fang, sans any apologism. It takes some odd circumstances (fringe group Ivory Claws in Amish country who are significantly less Nazi Eugenics Movement or Outback Predator Kings who legit just do not have to give a poo poo about anything but hunting big monster spirits) for them to be friends. The Predator Kings just care that you honor the hunt. The Ivory Claws are more likely to have an issue since their whole thing is about honoring their parentage. nofather fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 00:56
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I forget if I asked this ages ago but I haven't read Forsaken 2e: I remember hearing that there's no longer any punishment for two Forsaken (or werewolves in general) having children together. Doesn't this mean most werewolves would come from established werewolf or wolf-blooded families? You'd kind of be born and raised into the whole deal.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:01
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bewilderment posted:I forget if I asked this ages ago but I haven't read Forsaken 2e: I think the First Change is unpredictable enough that while most werewolves can be from wolf-blooded families, it's not at all guaranteed that your family is werewolves. Though, like, that seems up to the individual table how much they want a pack to be a family (I had a short-lived Woof game where the GM wanted basically all the PCs to be college-age woof kids of woof parents, and that worked well). EDIT: Also I think 'born and raised' is a great background to have available for woofs, because there's a strong Uratha culture that really stands out in the mechanics and language. Woofs who grow up in that milieu would have a weird and interesting relationship with the human world around them, and take to the spiritual apex predator role maybe too much. My character was a cahalith with the Screaming Moon Gift tree, and she was far too sanguine about violence and Lunacy because she Changed early and got way too used to regeneration and being able to gloss people's minds. She was messing around on the wrong end of the Harmony scale from human, and I was looking forward to her naive sense of woof superiority getting her in deep trouble. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 05:17
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bewilderment posted:I forget if I asked this ages ago but I haven't read Forsaken 2e: From what I remember the 'wolf gene' is still a crapshoot so while obviously you'd expect two wolves to have better odds you still get lots of 'yea poo poo guess his great grandpa was a wolf and the gene just was dormant a couple generations' cases.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:19
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our current game is all cousins of the Simmons family: Sofie, Sasha, Skye, and Sonny (plus his daugher Savannah). A guy named Keith is there too
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Feb 7, 2018 05:20
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bewilderment posted:I forget if I asked this ages ago but I haven't read Forsaken 2e: It's possible to be turned into a wolf-blooded accidentally or by hosed up whim of Luna. Hell, technically it's possible to intentionally be turned into a wolf-blooded if someone knew enough about the occult bullshit behind it [AKA the rules]. And as always it's possible for that spark of blood to give birth to a full on werewolf down the line. At this point it basically means anyone could turn into a werewolf, and all a detailed lineage gives you is the smallest tick of the meter more possibility. So while it's not meaningless, lineage isn't the be all and end all of woof woof generation. At the very least all wolf-blooded tend to have some occult ability beyond the normal though, so that's not nothing.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:28
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I maintain that WtA Garou being anti-vacc makes sense and could even be a great plot point for bringing back the edgy 1st Edition nonsense. It just has to follow this format to not be hugely offensive: 1. Too many people. This is Bad. 2. Disease controls populations. 3. Vaccines stop disease. 4. Vaccines thus mean too many people. 5. Thus, vaccines are Bad. Then balance it against the horrifying ways to die that disease actually represents, and the bane growth that creates, so you can have the nicely solid 'Garou are terrible monsters who directly and indirectly are causing themselves to lose the war' and a serious factional schism over the issue between the tribes with an actual clue of how to win the war (Furies, Gnawers, etc) and those that are loving morons. Properly handled I reckon you could do that while still coming down firmly on the pro-vaccine side (which is where I sit. I'm that guy reliant on herd immunity! Get vaccinated so I don't die, assholes!) but it needs to refrain from pulling punches about the legitimate horror show that disease returning as a major cause of death really is. EDIT: Basically Ratkin best Kin.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:34
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I just want to say that Loomer, you are as a lantern in the darkness of... well, an old World of Darkness. I have never been able to like anything from the old WoD as opposed to the Chronicles but I'm always happy to see your posts in the thread. Cheers!
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Feb 7, 2018 07:06
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Basic Chunnel posted:our current game is all cousins of the Simmons family: Sofie, Sasha, Skye, and Sonny (plus his daugher Savannah). Please note that the only one with actual confirmed werewolf parents/family is Keith. Basically Luna just does whatever and trying to find some sort of pattern or logic to it is a fool's errand.
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Feb 7, 2018 07:41
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Nothing that anyone has said or described about oWerewolf looks enjoyable to actually play through in the slightest, but that's been my take on basically the entirety of oWoD. These all just feel like (lovely) books you read, not actually games you'd play.
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Feb 7, 2018 07:41
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There was definitely an element of people buying the books to read and keep up with the setting and not really gaming with them, but most of the unplayability is just 90's design.
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Feb 7, 2018 10:16
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ProfessorCirno posted:Nothing that anyone has said or described about oWerewolf looks enjoyable to actually play through in the slightest, but that's been my take on basically the entirety of oWoD. These all just feel like (lovely) books you read, not actually games you'd play. The basic premise is pretty gameable, right? Furious lycanthrope guerrila warfare against Captain Planet villains, hella rad evil spirits, and the cosmic forces of entropy itself! Cue the metal riff!
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Feb 7, 2018 11:09
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Kurieg posted:Not really anymore. It's true that NuWolf had no hand in the first parts of V20, since that was produced before Paradox bought the White Wolf imprint, NuWolf has made changes on several current 20th anniversary releases to bring them more in line with their ideas for the 5th edition lines. 
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Feb 7, 2018 12:41
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Warthur posted:To my knowledge they at least either came in too late to touch the core books of the 20th Anniversary lines or didn't ask for many changes... except for Wraith, which has now gone back and forth between OPP and NuWW because they wanted some tweaks applied, especially to the Orpheus chapter. oh god no
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Feb 7, 2018 13:03
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CAN we get a class action lawsuit going? Because we paid for a OPP product, not a NuWW one?
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Feb 7, 2018 13:05
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MonsieurChoc posted:CAN we get a class action lawsuit going? Because we paid for a OPP product, not a NuWW one? I partly blame OPP for this, mind. They really should have given Rich Dansky a bit more support rather than leaving him to write the entire tome by himself and also juggling an increased day job workload he hadn't expected to deal with at the time of the Kickstarter. If the book had been finished faster, it would have received the CCP oversight treatment ("It's written in words on a page? Eh, good enough...") and be safe from NuWW's meddling. RichT on one of the recent Monday Meeting Notes made some vague noises about how maybe OPP's allowed developers to work unsupported by their ownsome a bit too much and they're working on changing that, which is good. (Being less reliant on "game designer as auteur" as a cornerstone of the PR would also be helpful - Wraith20 was always promoted as effectively being RICH DANSKY'S Wraith, Mage20 was very much presented as PHIL BRUCATO'S Mage and so on, with the involvement of those designers being a major selling point on the Kickstarters in question. That's fine in theory, but if the designer in question suddenly becomes unable to focus their efforts on the project that leads you to what's happened with Wraith. Plus the less a game line is intimately associated with one particular individual, the less damaged it gets when you get a BHM situation.) Warthur fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 13:16
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MonsieurChoc posted:CAN we get a class action lawsuit going? Because we paid for a OPP product, not a NuWW one? Despite how it can look, especially with projects like the OPP ones, donating to a kickstarter is not the same as purchasing a product. You're donating to something you believe in, not entering a binding financial contract. There's potential for repercussions in cases of outright scams, but it's kind of critical to the whole crowdfunding concept that backers can't just demand their money back or fling around lawsuits when the product doesn't turn out quite how they envisioned it, or even when the project outright tanks.
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Feb 7, 2018 13:31
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I wasn’t being serious, just... gently caress NuWW.
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Feb 7, 2018 13:35
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Terrorforge posted:Despite how it can look, especially with projects like the OPP ones, donating to a kickstarter is not the same as purchasing a product. You're donating to something you believe in, not entering a binding financial contract. There's potential for repercussions in cases of outright scams, but it's kind of critical to the whole crowdfunding concept that backers can't just demand their money back or fling around lawsuits when the product doesn't turn out quite how they envisioned it, or even when the project outright tanks. That said, given that it was always going to be the case that the project would be subject to an approvals process from the licensors, I don't think the change in the identity in the licensors would be considered enough to be a breach of the original contract. But if someone fails to deliver on a Kickstarter that'd be breach of contract.
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Feb 7, 2018 13:41
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ZearothK posted:You just described Daily Cthtonicle, it just lacks the free to play elements. I'm catching up on the thread but I had to respond to this: as a reporter and huge dork, this is extremely my poo poo and I can't wait to play it tonight. Thanks!
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Feb 7, 2018 20:57
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Warthur posted:To my knowledge they at least either came in too late to touch the core books of the 20th Anniversary lines or didn't ask for many changes... except for Wraith, which has now gone back and forth between OPP and NuWW because they wanted some tweaks applied, especially to the Orpheus chapter. Seldom have I experience the dizzying heights and lowest of lows so quickly. "Oh, man! An Orpheus chapter! Overseen by NuWW..." I think I have some feelings to eat.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:01
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On the one hand, if Wraith20 proceeds from the premise that the Underworld was NOT sandblasted to nothingness by a nuke, and thus is a setting to play in, it makes sense they'd want to hold pretty tight on the setting predicated upon "ok this is after that." On the other hand, this is nuWW so it's entirely possible they'll say that black people only have like, 3/5 of a ghost or something.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:30
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:On the one hand, if Wraith20 proceeds from the premise that the Underworld was NOT sandblasted to nothingness by a nuke, and thus is a setting to play in, it makes sense they'd want to hold pretty tight on the setting predicated upon "ok this is after that." World of Acceptable Amounts of Darkness
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Feb 8, 2018 00:47
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:On the one hand, if Wraith20 proceeds from the premise that the Underworld was NOT sandblasted to nothingness by a nuke, and thus is a setting to play in, it makes sense they'd want to hold pretty tight on the setting predicated upon "ok this is after that." I think the best case scenario is that something like 'Orpheus is NOT CANON and your games DON'T count, but go ahead and have a good time!'
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Feb 8, 2018 01:20
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Dawgstar posted:go ahead and have a good time!' How dare they.
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Feb 8, 2018 01:53
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Dawgstar posted:but go ahead and have a good time!' That doesn't sound like nuWW at all
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Feb 8, 2018 02:11
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cptn_dr posted:That doesn't sound like nuWW at all Good catch.
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Feb 8, 2018 02:28
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:On the other hand, this is nuWW so it's entirely possible they'll say that black people only have like, 3/5 of a ghost or something.
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Feb 8, 2018 04:24
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Loomer posted:The basic premise is pretty gameable, right? Furious lycanthrope guerrila warfare against Captain Planet villains, hella rad evil spirits, and the cosmic forces of entropy itself! Cue the metal riff! They seem more like weirdos in fur suits bombing abortion clinics now? I’m terrified at what sort of behavior the gameline is going to now inspire IRL.
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Feb 8, 2018 04:32
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Which sourcebook had the actual rules for Pangeans? e: looks like it was Dark Eras Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 04:54
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Dark Eras IIRC
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Feb 8, 2018 05:04
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