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jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


NihilCredo posted:

sql > python tho

yeah but python is a bit less of a horror show than python interacting with something ie a database

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Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008

Dinosaur Gum
Why is there such a hate for python? I like it (I don't use it professionally, but it was the first language I learned).

Is it just the lack of static types? I definitely get that.

Shy
Mar 20, 2010

I was interested ten years ago then 3 came out and I decided to wait till it gets adopted.

jony neuemonic
Nov 13, 2009

Surprise T Rex posted:

Why is there such a hate for python? I like it (I don't use it professionally, but it was the first language I learned).

Is it just the lack of static types? I definitely get that.

i don’t hate python, but it has an insufferably smug community that gets old really fast.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




jony neuemonic posted:

i don’t hate python, but it has an insufferably smug community that gets old really fast.

i think that only java community is at large free of some kind of insufferable smuglords

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Surprise T Rex posted:

Why is there such a hate for python? I like it (I don't use it professionally, but it was the first language I learned).

Is it just the lack of static types? I definitely get that.

about half of the hate is yospos circlejerk in one form or another

jony neuemonic
Nov 13, 2009

cinci zoo sniper posted:

i think that only java community is at large free of some kind of insufferable smuglords

yeah but with python it goes all the way up to the designers of the language. kinda like go, actually.

but i’m also biased because i’ve only ever had python developers demand i explain why i don’t love their favourite language (not the person who just asked, i mean in real life)

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




jony neuemonic posted:

yeah but with python it goes all the way up to the designers of the language. kinda like go, actually.

but i’m also biased because i’ve only ever had python developers demand i explain why i don’t love their favourite language (not the person who just asked, i mean in real life)

oh i deffo agree that my headcanon for guido is not far off from pike

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




speaking of lang preference, interviewed a dude today who actually managed a "python vs r" question like an adult (my "irl r programmers" experience is hit and miss)

VikingofRock
Aug 24, 2008




python is fine for small-to-medium sized projects; there's just a YOSPOS reaction against anything that's not enterprise enough

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

VikingofRock posted:

python is fine for small-to-medium sized projects; there's just a YOSPOS reaction against anything that's not lisp

VikingofRock
Aug 24, 2008




cinci zoo sniper posted:

speaking of lang preference, interviewed a dude today who actually managed a "python vs r" question like an adult (my "irl r programmers" experience is hit and miss)

"R is a little bit better for heavy / obscure statistics. Python is a little bit better for projects not requiring those because it has a more-readable syntax and is more flexible. The right answer is probably to use whatever the rest of the team is familiar with."

Did I do that right?

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




basically yeah, but you're also one of the last people itt id expect to get this wrong. he did wrongly assign "cutting edge machine learning algorithms" as python's advantage but that was the answer (the python bit was more ad-specific and talked about data janitorial"

but ya, the cool thing about r is that there's any algo or derivative that you may want - real academic stats papers come out with r packages and whatnot

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Feb 7, 2018

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




basically think about tools that fit the job, not news for anyone who has worked on a few jobs doing similar things. we're hiring down to stem undergrads so you never know what to expect (like dude who thinks data prep is irrelevant, minor part of the job)

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




its like 50-80% of workload on that position, you don't need to be einstein to poo poo our some plots for results spat out by bunch of premade algos

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




speaking of data prep, ill need to query our mongo tomorrow for archive data

:negative:

at least it's not a terrabyte of zipped firebird 1.5 backups we have for one of our older hardware systems (i hope i never have to touch those, as they lack any references to our main ecosystem so everything must be matched via timeframes, basically)

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
i got paid money like 7 months to do neural net poo poo
r's neural net poo poo, in absolute specificity (just neural net poo poo and no other specific stats poo poo) is really crap
python's neural net poo poo is pretty great

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




bob dobbs is dead posted:

i got paid money like 7 months to do neural net poo poo
r's neural net poo poo, in absolute specificity (just neural net poo poo and no other specific stats poo poo) is really crap
python's neural net poo poo is pretty great

"deep learning" marketing wave shite sure, i wouldnt be surprised - i think all the big stuff like tensorflow, cntk, or theano all either don't have R bindings as such, or those were added at some later point - which is not surprising, given "oddities" of R as a language.

my job doesnt touch neural nets with 10-foot pole, much like quite a few other ml areas since what's hot in sv and real world don't necessarily intersect - i imagine, at least. for that kind of "classical stuff" r is pretty stellar in terms of lib/algo availability

but then again much like big data or data science, machine learning is yet another term that everyone defines their own way.

*with stalker accent* i machine learn engineer, i know how is fix all truck in my garage

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

cinci zoo sniper posted:

"deep learning" marketing wave shite sure, i wouldnt be surprised - i think all the big stuff like tensorflow, cntk, or theano all either don't have R bindings as such, or those were added at some later point - which is not surprising, given "oddities" of R as a language.

my job doesnt touch neural nets with 10-foot pole, much like quite a few other ml areas since what's hot in sv and real world don't necessarily intersect - i imagine, at least. for that kind of "classical stuff" r is pretty stellar in terms of lib/algo availability

but then again much like big data or data science, machine learning is yet another term that everyone defines their own way.

*with stalker accent* i machine learn engineer, i know how is fix all truck in my garage

google search is now backed by a fuckton of neural nets. facebook news feeds

i mean, it's overhyped, but it's not a flash in the pan

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




im just hitting at the overhyping, not calling it useless. even for my usual shitposting itd be rich to call something useless just because it's not a good choice for my use case

im just mildly irritated that the hype spills over to business people, causing tiresome questions. that and potential hires thinking that all they will do is brute force parameter combinations on google's hot algo of the week

although, if facebook new feed tech uses it too then i might be mad about them in general since facebook is getting toxic and the algorithmic feed ruined instagram (also is basically useless since it appears to work the same way if you have not liked a single post or if you have liked all posts from all people you follow (but just them))

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

cinci zoo sniper posted:

"all hands on dick" alert

:raise:

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013





all hands on deck is a very silly phrase imo

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

cinci zoo sniper posted:

(also is basically useless since it appears to work the same way if you have not liked a single post or if you have liked all posts from all people you follow (but just them))

doesn't that have the same infomation content in the decision given by liking (H=0)? why would it be awful that those would work the same way?

i mean, it would be a valid complaint if like, you liked all of alice's posts and not bob's posts and liked all of bob's posts and not alice's posts in the two possible states and then got the same algorithmic feed

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder
lol go

https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/7vv9zz/popular_lib_gobindata_removed_from_github_or_why/

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.
I hate python because I hate meaningful whitespace.

That being said I use it all the time for little one-off scripts or whatever. I've had to support "enterprise" python before and it was very painful.

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

lol that's even better than leftpad

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




Finster Dexter posted:

I hate python because I hate meaningful whitespace.

That being said I use it all the time for little one-off scripts or whatever. I've had to support "enterprise" python before and it was very painful.

Coworker said literally the same first sentence today

Also said he'd rather write something in js with node than deal with the whitespace in python

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


c tp s figured out how to compile and execute arbitrary user typed visual basic .net code and have it interact with the hosting (C#) application

i'm basically a fuckin wizard (or an idiot who finally got lucky, more likely)

C# code:
namespace CompilingExperiments
{
    public class Program
    {
        static int MyValue = 0;
        public static void DoAThing()
        {
            MyValue++;
            Console.WriteLine($"did a thing {MyValue}");
        }

        static void VBSample()
        {
            SyntaxTree syntaxTree = VisualBasicSyntaxTree.ParseText(@"
Imports System

Namespace RoslynCompileSample
   Class Writer
       Private Const MyValue = 123
       Sub Write(str as String)
         Console.WriteLine (str)
       End Sub
        Sub _Execute
            ;
        End Sub
    End Class
End Namespace"
            );

            SyntaxNode rootNode = syntaxTree.GetRoot();

            var allMethods = rootNode.DescendantNodes().OfType<MethodStatementSyntax>();
            var methodNode = allMethods.First(x => x.Identifier.Text == "_Execute");

            var nodeToReplace = methodNode.Parent.DescendantNodes().OfType<EmptyStatementSyntax>().First();

            string usercode = @"
CompilingExperiments.Program.DoAThing()
CompilingExperiments.Program.DoAThing()
";
            SyntaxTree userCodeTree = VisualBasicSyntaxTree.ParseText(
                                     usercode, new VisualBasicParseOptions(kind: SourceCodeKind.Script)
                                 );

            SyntaxNode userCodeRoot = userCodeTree.GetRoot();
            var injectedSyntaxNode = rootNode.ReplaceNode(nodeToReplace, userCodeRoot.ChildNodes());

            string assemblyName = Path.GetRandomFileName();
            MetadataReference[] references = new MetadataReference[]
            {
                MetadataReference.CreateFromFile(typeof(object).Assembly.Location),
                MetadataReference.CreateFromFile(typeof(Enumerable).Assembly.Location),
                MetadataReference.CreateFromFile(typeof(Program).Assembly.Location)
            };

            VisualBasicCompilation compilation = VisualBasicCompilation.Create(
                assemblyName,
                syntaxTrees: new[] { injectedSyntaxNode.SyntaxTree },
                references: references,
                options: new VisualBasicCompilationOptions(OutputKind.DynamicallyLinkedLibrary));

            RunCompiledCode(compilation);
        }

        static void RunCompiledCode(Compilation compilation)
        {
            Assembly assembly = null;

            using (var ms = new MemoryStream())
            {
                EmitResult result = compilation.Emit(ms);

                if (!result.Success)
                {
                    IEnumerable<Diagnostic> failures = result.Diagnostics.Where(diagnostic =>
                        diagnostic.IsWarningAsError ||
                        diagnostic.Severity == DiagnosticSeverity.Error);

                    foreach (Diagnostic diagnostic in failures)
                    {
                        Console.Error.WriteLine("{0}: {1}", diagnostic.Id, diagnostic.GetMessage());
                    }
                }
                else
                {
                    ms.Seek(0, SeekOrigin.Begin);
                    assembly = Assembly.Load(ms.ToArray());
                }
            }

            if (assembly != null)
            {
                Type type = assembly.GetType("RoslynCompileSample.Writer");
                object obj = Activator.CreateInstance(type);

                type.InvokeMember("_Execute",
                    BindingFlags.Default | BindingFlags.InvokeMethod,
                    null,
                    obj,
                    null);
            }
        }
    }
}
outputs "did a thing 1" newline "did a thing 2" so the script modified host state

finally

jony neuemonic
Nov 13, 2009

i still use perl for all my one-off scripting things, but that’s more just familiarity than a thing i would recommend.

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill
I too sometimes use perl still. it’s better than shell scripting. for small one off scripts any language is fine really. perl, python, whatever.

just pray they never grow

Zemyla
Aug 6, 2008

I'll take her off your hands. Pleasure doing business with you!

Shy posted:

I too clean up codebases by writing more lovely code

You've heard of refeeding syndrome, where if you try to give too much food to a starving person, they die?

The same principle applies to codebases.

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Wheany posted:

really loving the stackoverflow questions where the top answer is "gently caress you you should never do that due to ideological purity"

I like the ones where someone tries to argue that your answer shouldn’t be considered definitive when you didn’t cite any documentation or give a justification as to why an API works the way it does

like, I wrote the drat API, you can take what I say about it as gospel

(just got one of those today)

also fun is when you say an answer shouldn’t be marked as best answer because developer shouldn’t be doing the thing and a “community manager” or whatever they’re called says you don’t have the authority to say they shouldn’t be doing it

like dude, I could put a bear trap in the code in question that logs “what’s the best answer now, rear end in a top hat?” with a link to their comments any time someone tries to use the workaround, you’d better loving believe I have the authority to say they shouldn’t do it

fuckin stack overflow, man

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

gonadic io posted:

gently caress youuuuuuu

yeah it should be gaðr

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

VikingofRock posted:

python is fine for small-to-medium sized projects; there's just a YOSPOS reaction against anything that's not lisp

VikingofRock
Aug 24, 2008




Ciaphas posted:

an idiot who finally got lucky

don't post a summary of my teenage years

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

bob dobbs is dead posted:

i got paid money like 7 months to do neural net poo poo
r's neural net poo poo, in absolute specificity (just neural net poo poo and no other specific stats poo poo) is really crap
python's neural net poo poo is pretty great

how do they compare to Symbolics’ neural net poo poo

(j/k, Plexi has disappeared from the universe, tapes are desperately sought for preservation but it doesn’t look good)

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Finster Dexter posted:

I hate python because I hate meaningful whitespace.

I’ll be overjoyed the first time I hear someone say this and they back it up by showing their curly braces code that’s hilariously misaligned, indented arbitrarily, line breaks inserted without rhyme or reason

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder
i refuse to write code without some sort of automatic code formatter

dont even care what it looks like just make it consistent and so that i dont have to worry about it

Shaman Linavi
Apr 3, 2012

luv when an editor doesn't normalize tabs/spaces and i have to figure out why python is yelling at me

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AWWNAW
Dec 30, 2008

snack overflow is funny as hell if you try to answer questions. I have an email alert setup for a tag and will answer questions sometimes and the regulars get real pissy if you beat them to an answer. sometimes I’ll post an answer and it’ll get downvotes before they’ve even had time to read it

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