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Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001

When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Goon Danton posted:

Authoritarian followers follow authoritarian leaders. If you cultivate a following of them without being of them yourself, someone is going to scoop them right out from under you.

yep

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Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Hmm i wonder why movements to engage more of the populace in wage labor usually win and ones to reduce the wage labor population usually fail. Anyway,

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDJKG6VubJ4

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
I got real mad when chomsky tried to used spacetime or quantum mechanics to refute materialism, that conclusively proved to me that chomsky was an idiot. Just becaise something isn't a particle moving in euclidean space, doesn't mean you can't still classify it as matter, it only means that its dynamics operate under different rules than we, as humans who operate at the macro level, are used.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

rudatron posted:

I got real mad when chomsky tried to used spacetime or quantum mechanics to refute materialism, that conclusively proved to me that chomsky was an idiot. Just becaise something isn't a particle moving in euclidean space, doesn't mean you can't still classify it as matter, it only means that its dynamics operate under different rules than we, as humans who operate at the macro level, are used.

I was confused by his speech about things we understand taking on a state of physicality, because doesn't that only further validate a materialist perspective? It means achieving a more comprehensive understanding of the material world, not necessarily that ideas themselves have a physicality. Like, you can understand or at least think you understand all of the most esoteric texts you can imagine, but it has no real utility in the material world. There's nothing that a sense of idealistic self-righteousness can achieve that couldn't be realized by pharmaceuticals. Plus what do you do if people disagree with your ideology and prevent it from being realized? Kill them? That won't make the ideology jive any better with the baseline physical reality.

*"ideology" i mean here, in the derogatory way Marx referred to it - not in the modern sense of a political belief system.

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy

A Spherical Sponge posted:

Hmm well it's been a while since I read the book that laid out the argument, but from what I remember, and some google searching, the argument is basically that life entails a kind of proto-consciousness facilitated by a functional distinction between the living system and its environment, and the active maintenance of the existence of the living system (ie metabolism, homeostasis, all that sort of stuff), which imbues things in the world with meaning relative to the living system because the living system has a sort of teleological basis to its interactions with the world, based on the drive of all living things to continue to exist and reproduce.

So yeah, a body is necessary as a mediating agent between the world and the self, but the material existence of that body, and the fact that the body itself is composed of living things which have certain teleological orientation towards phenomena in the world acts as a kind of foundation for the structure and content of a conscious mind. I think it has something to do with how the teleological orientation of living cells in multicellular organisms get subsumed into the larger teleological orientation of the multicellular organism itself, and how the mind is just a particularly complex example of that, but I'm not particularly confident on the particulars of the argument.

Edit: there's a sort of summary of the book made by the author here if you're curious, he can probably make his argument better than I can, though of course he doesn't say anything about the feasibility of AI
but there still isn't a technical necessity of a living nedium. I reject outright that there is a teleology to it, but sure, living things orient themselves by natural selection to self-preservation and reproduction. But such orientation is not itself limited to a living substrate, it's just one of many goals that you could choose to orient a thinking thing towards. Emotions and desires are derived by thier effect on the mind, not the nature of their source. Therefore, a machine mind programmed with similar phenomenological ecperience to people, including base hunger, thirst, sexual, affection and social affirmation, etc, must develop in a similar way to an actual person, mentally.

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
this is some dumb rear end bullshit

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

this is some dumb rear end bullshit

turn on ur monitor

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

turn on ur monitor

Turn On My Monitor, My rear end (I Won't Turn On My Monitor)

White Rock
Jul 14, 2007
Creativity flows in the bored and the angry!
The point is that arguing for socialism and arguing for equality under capitalism (equal opportunities but not equal outcomes) are two distinct things and we shouldn't confuse one for the other.

Concessions given by protest is inevitably on the whim of the people in power, and there is an absolute limit to what it can achieve.

White Rock
Jul 14, 2007
Creativity flows in the bored and the angry!
Whats that saying? "I don't want the gay homeless man to die because he is gay, i want him to die because he is homeless."

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Prav posted:

and got re-elected

only thing americans love more than racism is war

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/960939794472882176

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

White Rock posted:

The point is that arguing for socialism and arguing for equality under capitalism (equal opportunities but not equal outcomes) are two distinct things and we shouldn't confuse one for the other.

Concessions given by protest is inevitably on the whim of the people in power, and there is an absolute limit to what it can achieve.

Yeah I mean most people in socialist orgs already understand this, its not really practical advice. PSL and SAlt both participate in fight for 15 for a reason, it's about building a base through organizing over issues.

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
Dying North Koreans a sign US diplomatic strategy works, Tillerson says, via RT

Same story via Reuters if you have hangups about RT.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

quote:

“We are not going to take any responsibility for the fact that he (North Korean leader Kim Jong Un) is choosing to make his own people suffer,” Tillerson said.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

Wheeee posted:

if there's no threat of force then nobody will care

civil rights didnt happen because suddenly those in power felt bad and wanted to be nice

https://twitter.com/ciagofundme/status/954388350051454976

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Jason Unruhe Explains Juche (ASMR)

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Karl Barks posted:

Jason Unruhe Explains Juche (ASMR)

https://twitter.com/NoContextUnruhe/status/937088802975297538

Hilario Baldness
Feb 10, 2005

:buddy:



Grimey Drawer
What's the general consensus on World Socialist Web Site (WSWS)? They just posted a piece making GBS threads on Noam Chomsky and "pseudo Marxist" David Harvey for comments they made regarding Afrin and I thought it was sorta trash and wondered if anyone had a more informed opinion.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

Hilario Baldness posted:

What's the general consensus on World Socialist Web Site (WSWS)? They just posted a piece making GBS threads on Noam Chomsky and "pseudo Marxist" David Harvey for comments they made regarding Afrin and I thought it was sorta trash and wondered if anyone had a more informed opinion.
Trotskyist sex freaks. Avoid.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/01/pate-j27.html

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/11/28/marc-n28.html

Dairy Days
Dec 26, 2007

it will never cease to blow my mind that the man who's parents fled europe to avoid the holocaust among other things then publishes a piece that shits on antifa for daring to exist before the literal gas chambers are constructed and in use
and then people still treat him as a serious academic

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
what does cpusa do these days

big business man
Sep 30, 2012

GalacticAcid posted:

what does cpusa do these days

literally nothing worthwhile

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
too bad. that logo & name are too good to waste

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

GalacticAcid posted:

what does cpusa do these days

CIA stuff

Hilario Baldness
Feb 10, 2005

:buddy:



Grimey Drawer
I donated 60 bucks to them last year since they were doing some community outreach thing in Chicago. Since then I receive random phone calls from someone about going out to lunch since they're "travelling through town". I have never answered their phone calls. I'm probably on a list somewhere.

sub supau
Aug 28, 2007

Hilario Baldness posted:

What's the general consensus on World Socialist Web Site (WSWS)? They just posted a piece making GBS threads on Noam Chomsky and "pseudo Marxist" David Harvey for comments they made regarding Afrin and I thought it was sorta trash and wondered if anyone had a more informed opinion.

Holier than thou dipshits masturbating themselves raw to the thought of a 100% ideologically pure world revolution they lead and that only they are smart enough and correct enough to take part in.

e: also their positions on China and Russia appear to be that neither country can do any wrong.

sub supau fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Feb 8, 2018

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
While I don't disagree with WSWS being not-good, I also don't think we should take it for granted that Noam Chomsky can also have bad opinions.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

pobodys nerfect

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

gradenko_2000 posted:

While I don't disagree with WSWS being not-good, I also don't think we should take it for granted that Noam Chomsky can also have bad opinions.

He said it was bad to punch Nazis.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
out: C.H.O.A.M. company

in: N.O.A.M.C.H.O.M.S.K.Y.

Hilario Baldness
Feb 10, 2005

:buddy:



Grimey Drawer

gradenko_2000 posted:

While I don't disagree with WSWS being not-good, I also don't think we should take it for granted that Noam Chomsky can also have bad opinions.

Noam Chomsky visiting the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum while the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme plays in the background .avi

Zerg Mans
Oct 19, 2006


Unruhe means restless in German

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

Postoyevsky posted:

literally nothing worthwhile

this isn't true

Serf
May 5, 2011


Pener Kropoopkin posted:

He said it was bad to punch Nazis.

well you gotta put yourself in his shoes. any attempt to punch a nazi would cause his old man knuckles to vaporize

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES

R. Guyovich posted:

this isn't true

i would guess it varies by city?

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Serf posted:

well you gotta put yourself in his shoes. any attempt to punch a nazi would cause his old man knuckles to vaporize

David Harvey would punch a nazi. He teaches in prisons, i bet he knows how to make a shiv

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Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

donnie's getting soft ;)

https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/961616572417757185

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