|
Neurolimal posted:It shouldn't be that hard to give UM's their own flavor, especially with the roman inspiration. Maybe give them shields that can get in the way of enemy LoS when used (in place of a shooting phase), with models getting an extra buff when multiple nearby models in the unit choose to do so. They should bring breacher units to 40k. UMs could get a cool Shield Wall type ability, granting a +1 to save rolls against shooting attacks, and get to fire overwatch twice for 1 CP or something.
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 00:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 12:56 |
|
|
Zuul the Cat posted:They should bring breacher units to 40k. UMs could get a cool Shield Wall type ability, granting a +1 to save rolls against shooting attacks, and get to fire overwatch twice for 1 CP or something.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 00:20
|
|
|
Artum posted:Adding another flavour would just compound the problem of vanilla marines being bad though. I mean, most of the time "vanilla marines" are a custom chapter modeled after the main chapters. I'm not sure how you would go about having a marine army with no chapter focus that's still good, beyond giving them a ridiculous point discount. Tying UM to 'Generic Marines' just causes UM to be boring and disliked for being a boring lead-faction.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 00:24
|
|
|
The last thing vanilla Marines need is more units, they already have incredible bloat and redundant options all scrapping to fill the same role. What matters is making what they already have better, and more clearly defining roles. I'm trying to think what would make Tacs good. Maybe an ability to either shoot twice or fight twice, choose at the start of the turn. Right now they're eclipsed by Intercessors as tough mid holders and by Scouts for cheap troop tax. The stratagems need a serious looking at too. Far too many of them are hugely situational or rely on heavily building your list around them (often to the point of being mutually exclusive). There was a real and obvious shift in the implementation of stratagems from like Guard onwards, and Marines have sufferes for it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 00:26
|
|
|
Here's another question; why would I ever take a Gravis Captain when a Space Marine Captain on Bike is far superior in nearly every way, save -1 attack? I've been goofing around with the idea of an Inceptor Captain. Looking around it seems like a Biker Captain would be an excellent substitute.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 00:33
|
|
|
Zuul the Cat posted:I've decided to finally give up on AoS as I never really have a good time when I play it. As such, I just traded off a large lot of Khorne Bloodbound and got some Harlequins & T'au stuff. Fire Warriors are essential for troop slots, obviously, but if you want to go heavy on the infantry you definitely want some Cadre Fireblades. They're the cheapest HQ choice Tau has at 42 points, and they're the best markerlight platform in the entire army with BS2+. Their aura ability also helps Fire Warriors a good deal, making them 50% more shooty at close range (particularly overwatch). Pathfinders are probably the best unit that aren't Commanders, pre-Codex, because they get markerlights, pulse carbines (not great, but they can move if you have something else to put markerlights to negate movement penalties (8-13" when advancing, markerlights can remove the penalty for Assault weapons advancing, and can let your rail rifles start shooting at -1). Rail Rifles are real loving good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 01:09
|
|
|
Also of note is the fact that the leader of the Ultramarines is also the guy who set down the rules on how to Marine, so giving Ultramarines extra stuff means that they're breaking their own rules which sets a bad example to all the young impressionable Marine chapters and Ultramarines is for the childrens :wutang: But for real, the intent I feel behind an Ultramarines/Successor Chapter/Generic Custom Chapter force was always on being a balanced low-model force whereas all the other furry, vampire, renfaire cosplaying, and traitor Marines had specialized elements that sacrificed the balance vanilla Marines had.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 01:11
|
|
|
Two Beans posted:But for real, the intent I feel behind an Ultramarines/Successor Chapter/Generic Custom Chapter force was always on being a balanced low-model force whereas all the other furry, vampire, renfaire cosplaying, and traitor Marines had specialized elements that sacrificed the balance vanilla Marines had. And therein lies the problem because instead now all the sub factions just get the standard marine kit and all their own stuff with little to no tradeoff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 01:19
|
|
|
That's sort of the issue - GW lore is competing with GW business model. The theory is that if you want to play a divergent chapter, you get benefits. Benefits that are offset by the loss of some of the things that being a Codex Chapter brings. The issue is they used to do this with kits - You want your Wolfy McWolf Throne, you can't take Assault Marines, whatever. Or you want Baal Predators, you can't take whatever version of ridiculous flyer is good this month. The practical is that GW business never wants a player to not be able to take a kit - You like a thing, you should be able to play with it, and your choice of army shouldn't hamstring your purchasing. Remember when WHFB Giants appeared? They found a way to shoehorn them into basically everything, and the same thing happened with the Land Raider. So, the issue is the only way to differentiate is then to provide rules coverage - Allow players to utilise the same models, in different ways. But that's a slippery slope, because it gave us 7th Ed Formations eventually, and it turned into a poo poo-show. The outcome of this is we end up in the unhappy medium - Divergence is rewarded, and 'vanilla' factions end up just worse; Play Ynnari over Eldar. Play Blood Angels successors over Ultramarines. Play GSC over straight Guard/Nids. Because you get more toys or options, or your army is flat better. (Some intentional hyperbole on my part for illustrating a point, please don't go dissecting this, it wasn't the intent.) I honestly don't think GW internally have come up with a satisfactory compromise. I do hope they do, because honestly, I don't WANT to run my Primaris custom chapter as Space Wolves, but once their Codex comes out, I expect if I want to maximise my chances of winning, I should. Maybe we'll eventually get a Codex: Primaris for them specifically, which will make me happy, but doesn't address the above, really. And those Ultramarines make up a LOT of armies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
Two Beans posted:Also of note is the fact that the leader of the Ultramarines is also the guy who set down the rules on how to Marine, so giving Ultramarines extra stuff means that they're breaking their own rules which sets a bad example to all the young impressionable Marine chapters and Ultramarines is for the childrens :wutang: Well at the same time, he always intended those to be guidelines rather than Marine Law, and one of the things that disappointed him on his return was the fact that the UM's had rigidly adhered to every page. E: nonsequitur question: do inquisitors break regiment adherence? I know a bunch of the other imperium non-SOB/SOS/Marine dont, but I'm not sure if I saw inquisitors listed. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Feb 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 01:35
|
|
|
Uh, weren't (still aren't) things like Centurions and Thunderfire Cannons (and until very recently Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminators) Codex marines only? Venerable and Ironclad Dreads basically still are. The problem isn't that they don't get stuff to set them apart, it's that the stuff that sets them apart sucks this edition.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 01:40
|
|
|
Strobe posted:Uh, weren't (still aren't) things like Centurions and Thunderfire Cannons (and until very recently Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminators) Codex marines only? Venerable and Ironclad Dreads basically still are. Yeah, Cents, Thunderfires, and Ironclads are all
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Well at the same time, he always intended those to be guidelines rather than Marine Law, and one of the things that disappointed him on his return was the fact that the UM's had rigidly adhered to every page. I'm afraid I'm pretty ignorant of what happens in the Black Library books since I haven't read any of them, and also my only source of lore has been the rulebooks and codexes of editions 1 through 3 so more recent stuff I've been playing catch-up on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 01:49
|
|
|
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I'm comparing them to a Primaris Captain, not a regular one. The Primaris Captain has the same number of attacks, same number of wounds, and can also field a power first for 28 points less. Considering you can get a bike that adds +1 T, +1 W, +8 movement for a mere 26 pts over a regular captain, I’d say youre correct. Give him the Primarch’s wrath and you got a dakka captain, although it’ll never be better than a TH. TheArmorOfContempt fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Feb 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 02:04
|
|
|
Cross posting from the painting thread because tbh I don't know why they don't just scrap all Marines and move to Primaris.Gravitas Shortfall posted:I HATE painting marines.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 02:32
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Cross posting from the painting thread because tbh I don't know why they don't just scrap all Marines and move to Primaris. They should. I have been building all my characters on Primaris bodies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 02:37
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Cross posting from the painting thread because tbh I don't know why they don't just scrap all Marines and move to Primaris. cool ultramarines
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 03:00
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Cross posting from the painting thread because tbh I don't know why they don't just scrap all Marines and move to Primaris. They've basically hinted at that by fluff mentioning that normal marines can be upgraded to Primaris. Seeing as how they're primarily a way to make marines look less stupid I wont be surprised if by 9thed they become the mainstay, maybe with a thrown-bone of Squat Marines getting some gimmick (shove more in a vehicle being the obvious one  ).
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 03:08
|
|
|
Conversely my Carcharadon army is shelved until there is a chapter tactic/variation that lets you take chainswords on your tactical marines because all of my tacticals have chainswords. I may end up having to use the SW codex.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 03:11
|
|
|
Thundercloud posted:Conversely my Carcharadon army is shelved until there is a chapter tactic/variation that lets you take chainswords on your tactical marines because all of my tacticals have chainswords. Can also run them as Black Templar Crusader Squads.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 03:13
|
|
|
Have you heard the good word of THIN YOUR PAINTS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxWgsqSf74s
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 04:06
|
|
|
The Young Lad tonight wanted to see about playing, so I cobbled a quick couple of lists at just under 500, which is the entirety of my Nids up against a small Patrol detachment of SM (I gave him Iron Hands rules to try to keep his dudes alive longer). Now, keeping in mind that I only have the one HQ right now and that I deliberately placed that HQ where it could easily be shot by a squad of Sniper/HB Scouts and a Hellblaster squad, please consider: Is it technically child abuse to field a Flyrant against a ten year old? PantsOptional fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Feb 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 05:06
|
|
|
PantsOptional posted:The Young Lad tonight wanted to see about playing, so I cobbled a quick couple of lists at just under 500, which is the entirety of my Nids up against a small Patrol detachment of SM (I gave him Iron Hands rules to try to keep his dudes alive longer). Now, keeping in mind that I only have the one HQ right now and that I deliberately places that HQ where it could easily be shot by a squad of Sniper/HB Scouts and a Hellblaster squad, please consider: Against hellblasters that will overheating on 2's? Yes. I'm actually calling CPS now
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 05:08
|
|
|
Man, I’m gonna have to buy him a shitload of juice now
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 05:16
|
|
|
Anything I missed in the last 500 posts?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 05:25
|
|
|
Uroboros posted:Considering you can get a bike that adds +1 T, +1 W, +8 movement for a mere 26 pts over a regular captain, I’d say youre correct. Give him the Primarch’s wrath and you got a dakka captain, although it’ll never be better than a TH. I've really started to wonder about the viability of using an alternative model as an Inceptor Captain. I could do a biker captain, or something crazy like a Ravenwing Talonmaster or Sammael on Sableclaw or Corvex.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 06:01
|
|
|
Technowolf posted:Have you heard the good word of THIN YOUR PAINTS. I saw this today. It was the best advice that this and the minis painting thread gave me when I was getting serious about painting my Tyranids. I looked at my Shadespire stuff for the first time in months today (great game!) and immediately decided to strip it and retry it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 06:10
|
|
|
  This weapon swap worked out way better than I thought it would.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 09:11
|
|
|
That's awesome.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 09:35
|
|
|
Foul Ole Ron posted:Just curious what units work for a committed alpha strike list with csm/daemons. Raptors will likely not kill enough stuff in close combat, but they can tie up Shooty stuff for a turn. They got mullered by some Hellblasters in close combat but it meant those Hellblasters weren’t shooting turn one so they were a worthy sacrifice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 10:25
|
|
|
Milotic posted:Raptors will likely not kill enough stuff in close combat, but they can tie up Shooty stuff for a turn. They got mullered by some Hellblasters in close combat but it meant those Hellblasters weren’t shooting turn one so they were a worthy sacrifice. Unless they are bloody ultra Marines or dire avengers (so much hubris). It's really hard to tell isn't it before the grand rules reshuffle?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 11:22
|
|
|
Yeah my friend was playing Imperial fist tactics as his chapter is a successor of that. I was like “Are you sure you don’t want to go Ultramarine tactics for this game?” but he wants to run as fist tactics. The ignores cover is quite good. But it’s not quite in the same ballpark as can fall back and shoot as normal. I ran as Alpha Legion and thanked my stars I hadn’t chosen night Lords - the Open War cards we chose made everyone immune to morale.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 12:32
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:What do you get for finishing it? A coronary. Actual answer: a certificate proving you beat the Ogre challenge.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 13:59
|
|
|
Milotic posted:Yeah my friend was playing Imperial fist tactics as his chapter is a successor of that. I was like “Are you sure you don’t want to go Ultramarine tactics for this game?” but he wants to run as fist tactics. The ignores cover is quite good. But it’s not quite in the same ballpark as can fall back and shoot as normal. The way we've been doing Open War cards, which I'm really fond of now, is to deal 3 cards at each step and have each player remove a card, so the last card left is what you end up using. Helps avoid situations where you have something that'll cripple one of the armies and adds a bit of extra choice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 14:02
|
|
|
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I've really started to wonder about the viability of using an alternative model as an Inceptor Captain. I could do a biker captain, or something crazy like a Ravenwing Talonmaster or Sammael on Sableclaw or Corvex. If you want to keep him cheaper then jump pack is the best way to keep him like the inceptors. The problem is Marines lack a true shooty HQ option.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 14:11
|
|
|
Uroboros posted:If you want to keep him cheaper then jump pack is the best way to keep him like the inceptors. The problem is Marines lack a true shooty HQ option. I don't care about making him cheap, I just want something cool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 14:57
|
|
|
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I don't care about making him cheap, I just want something cool. Pop goes the Monkey on Shapeways makes a jump pack for Primaris bodies. I am thinking about buying some to have a jump captain look like a Primaris. Kinda want him to be jump buddies with 6 Plasma Inceptors.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 16:05
|
|
|
dexefiend posted:Pop goes the Monkey on Shapeways makes a jump pack for Primaris bodies. I am thinking about buying some to have a jump captain look like a Primaris. Yeah, I just wish he didn't have the fragility of a regular dude. That's why I was looking at stuff like guys on bikes or the DA Ravenwing characters.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 16:23
|
|
|
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I don't care about making him cheap, I just want something cool. A bike will clearly have the most shooting, but the jump pack will allow him to function like the inceptors. The bike not being able to scale buildings is a huge negative in my opinion. Primarch’s Wrath and a power axe would keep him cheap but flexible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 17:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 12:56 |
|
|
Uroboros posted:A bike will clearly have the most shooting, but the jump pack will allow him to function like the inceptors. The bike not being able to scale buildings is a huge negative in my opinion. Primarch’s Wrath and a power axe would keep him cheap but flexible. Can jetbikes or speeders scale buildings?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2018 17:24
|
|