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Coughing Hobo posted:Citan is absolutely one of the most powerful characters in the game, and around the time the rest of the party catches up, he picks up a sword. Or when he can make the random Gear he swiped from Bart's desert pirates perform up to par, then when everyone is getting Omnigears he goes "Let me grab mine". I forgot, he faked his 6-length combo limit until the rest of the party unlocked it, right? Omobono fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 22:56
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Priestly posted:I seem to remember it being a relatively decent retelling of Gnosticism, actually. Or at least I have a vague recollection of a poster in the LP thread saying so, it's been a while. It was, sort of, and that might've even been me. It's super simplified and on-the-nose, though, which kinda works out. What's impressive is that Takahashi kept sticking to it at least up through the first Xenoblade, which has the same themes intact but kept mostly to the subtext, and lets the story be it's own thing. The result is something that feels genuinely polished and complete, if lacking in the heady 90s-anime insanity that Xenogears just barrels wildly into from every possible angle. Much as one might do with Drakengard and/or NieR and NieR Automata respectively: Read the Xenogears LP; play Xenoblade Chronicles.
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Feb 13, 2018 00:48
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So was there actually any plot throughline from Xenogears to Xenosaga to Xenoblade or are they completely distinct entities? I vaguely remember zohars being a thing in Xenosaga but I never played past the first game and barely remember it now.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:13
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DeathSandwich posted:So was there actually any plot throughline from Xenogears to Xenosaga to Xenoblade or are they completely distinct entities? I vaguely remember zohars being a thing in Xenosaga but I never played past the first game and barely remember it now. Xenoblade, at least, is a distinct game from the other two. It could be argued that Xenoblade X and Xenoblade 2 are connected to them, but that's mostly because of the Zohar imagery in those games. There's no plot connection, as far as I know.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:22
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DeathSandwich posted:So was there actually any plot throughline from Xenogears to Xenosaga to Xenoblade or are they completely distinct entities? I vaguely remember zohars being a thing in Xenosaga but I never played past the first game and barely remember it now. It's Final Fantasy rules, there are a few elements shared between them but the plot and setting are different in each one.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:22
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None. There's a few things in Xenosaga that'll make you go "oh hey it's like that thing," and there's an Uzuki who manages to be awful in their own special yet equally unintended-by-the-writer way, but otherwise it's it's own deal. And there are two characters in Xenoblade 1 who visually resemble, respectively, Elly with a tan and Margie with the anime zazz dialed way up.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:34
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Allegedly the plan was that if Xenosaga continued it was going to "catch up" to Gears and finish telling that story, but I think when that game failed any attempt to revisit that grand epic fell by the wayside now that so many pieces of it were tied up with so many other companies.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:37
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The backstory/setting of Xenosaga and the 'Episode 1' parts of Xenogears' Perfect Works material are identical. It's pretty clear that at some point in production Xenosaga legitimately was meant to be the full 6 episode arc laid out in that, or at least something that resembled that. But it seems like by the time they actually released Xenosaga 1 they'd dropped that plan and turned it into its own thing, since Xenosaga 2 is nothing like Perfect Works' Episode 2. Although oddly it looks like they were still shooting for a 6 part story even midway through Xenosaga 3's production, albeit with some parts spun off into non-game forms. Then Namco got fed up and Xenosaga 3 is 3 games.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:52
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CmdrKing posted:The backstory/setting of Xenosaga and the 'Episode 1' parts of Xenogears' Perfect Works material are identical. It's pretty clear that at some point in production Xenosaga legitimately was meant to be the full 6 episode arc laid out in that, or at least something that resembled that. But it seems like by the time they actually released Xenosaga 1 they'd dropped that plan and turned it into its own thing, since Xenosaga 2 is nothing like Perfect Works' Episode 2. Nintendo is so buddy buddy with Bandai Namco that if Monolith wanted to pick xenosaga back up again and convinced Nintendo to foot the bill they probably could.
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Feb 13, 2018 18:38
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For the most part I liked the Xenosaga games, but I remember XS2 was one of the worst rpg offenders I can remember at having even regular encounters feel long and tedious late game.
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Feb 13, 2018 20:22
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Yeah, Xenosaga 2's random battles are such a slog (even early game) that I have no idea how I finished that game. Thankfully 3 is much better in that regard. To anyone wanting to play Xenosaga, I'd recommend playing 1 then trying to find an LP of 2 then playing 3. ...! fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 21:29
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Ohtsam posted:Nintendo is so buddy buddy with Bandai Namco that if Monolith wanted to pick xenosaga back up again and convinced Nintendo to foot the bill they probably could. This is actually reasonably plausible, Namco did much of the development on the last Smash Bros., and Nintendo actually lent out both Xenoblade and Fire Emblem to Namco for Project X Zone 2 (which is the first I've ever heard of Nintendo licensing out their characters for a project that wasn't primarily focused on those characters). All it would take is someone at the two companies to push for it to happen. And given his status as a freelancer, they could get Yoko Taro to help write it, which I think would be a pretty good fit.
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Feb 13, 2018 21:35
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EclecticTastes posted:And given his status as a freelancer, they could get Yoko Taro to help write it, which I think would be a pretty good fit. I wasn't sure about this at first but then I remembered how Xenogears ended and now I think you're on to something. Wasn't Humanity down to like 20 guys and some Chu's holed up in the arctic by that point?
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Feb 13, 2018 21:40
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Man I should finish Id's LP of Xenogears. Or maybe play it myself if I want to kill a hundred hours 
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Feb 13, 2018 22:52
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:I wasn't sure about this at first but then I remembered how Xenogears ended and now I think you're on to something. Pretty much. This also was well after the protagonist's evil split personality was directly responsible for the death of an entire floating city's worth of people and the party accidentally causing a good chunk of humanity to become insane mutants. Good times...
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Feb 13, 2018 23:17
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END ME SCOOB posted:Allegedly the plan was that if Xenosaga continued it was going to "catch up" to Gears and finish telling that story, but I think when that game failed any attempt to revisit that grand epic fell by the wayside now that so many pieces of it were tied up with so many other companies. Nah, from the early interviews Takahashi said Xenosaga was more of a spiritual reimagining of Xenogears, with each game being somewhat self-contained (lol) with a plot that would span from "the beginning to the end of the universe", so no, the plan was never to lead into Xenogears. He just took Episode I from Perfect Works, remade it, and then managed to make an impressively large number of game design mistakes that torpedoed the series's chances to go anywhere
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Feb 13, 2018 23:18
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exploded mummy posted:places like "WHY WOULD YOU LET THEM EAT THAT" or "WHO WOULD BUILD A GUN ROBOT THAT FIRES ITS PILOT IN A BULLET"  edit: Synthbuttrange posted:SO LONG SKORPEX! 
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Feb 13, 2018 23:25
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I would only support a Xenogears remake if it keeps all of the stupid poo poo. Removing Guntron or the crucifixion would be criminal
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Feb 13, 2018 23:27
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...! posted:Yeah, Xenosaga 2's random battles are such a slog (even early game) that I have no idea how I finished that game. Thankfully 3 is much better in that regard. You got to corner the Pope and air juggle him with ricochet bullets and shoryuken. It owned and was the only time the battle system clicked
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Feb 14, 2018 00:04
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Xenosaga 2 has a battle system designed for epic boss battles that made no allowances for battles that lasted less than 5 minutes.
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Feb 14, 2018 00:36
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I remember playing XS2 and dropping it for like a year, only to resume when news of XS3 finally came along, and having to slog through the final dungeon full of stupidly overpowered assholes. Then XS3 ended up being a legitimately decent game...and turns out smashing a plot planned for several into one actually can solve pacing issues sometimes.
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Feb 14, 2018 01:20
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Does that mean there's an actual good story buried somewhere in Xenosaga? I had to stop playing XS1 pretty quickly because of all the anime bullshit characters, making me mad I wasted money picking up XS2 at the same time.
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Feb 14, 2018 02:08
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Kind of, if you dig large-scale sci-fi filled with excessively hamfisted metaphors. Which, given the subject of this thread, you very well might.  Speaking for myself: I liked Xenosaga, yet find it hard to recommend sincerely. It rolls around in the most obnoxious of anime cliches while taking itself seriously to a fault, and the writing is choppy, clearly stitched together from a larger vision that didn't work out, and poorly paced. The second game, while focusing the story on a truly entertaining villain that'd be right at home in any Yoko Taro work, is a chore to play even if you do master the overwrought combat system, although the first and third are fine in that regard. On the plus side: The imagery's great, the hard sci-fi elements are satisfyingly dense, the music is mostly amazing, and KOS-MOS is a legitimately cool character whose story arc has a great payoff, serving as the strongest throughline of the three games.
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Feb 14, 2018 02:49
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Xenosaga 3 had some awesome stuff going for it. The ground combat was speedy and easy to understand and Mech combat is pure prefection in both presentation and mechanics wise. The time travel story arc is possibly the best part of the entire series with more amazing things happening one after the other that it almost feels like a drag when it's all over. A shame it ended the way it did but at least we get to have continuing adventures of KOS-MOS as she teams up with various Mega Mans to destroy some umbrella laboratories in the multiverse.
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Feb 14, 2018 03:33
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Zerilan posted:For the most part I liked the Xenosaga games, but I remember XS2 was one of the worst rpg offenders I can remember at having even regular encounters feel long and tedious late game. When Xenosaga 2 came out I was really into Game Informer, and they said in their review, "This is a dropped ball of Devil May Cry 2 proportions." They still gave it a 7/10. U-DO Burger posted:I would only support a Xenogears remake if it keeps all of the stupid poo poo. Removing Guntron or the crucifixion would be criminal Agreed. A remake should be changing things like the dungeon design and replacing the content that had to get cut from Disc 2.
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Feb 14, 2018 03:57
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XS1 was playable, I was able to just suck up the various types of tedium and get through it. XS2 was a horrible slog, the sluggish battles were a pain. Then the obligatory self destruct escape sequence happened and I think I got maybe through 2 screens and 2/3 of the time was already gone from the horrible battles. Dropped it and never picked it up. Unfortunately that killed my interest in 3 so I never played it.
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Feb 14, 2018 04:12
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I would be willing to let the removal of the Crucifixion scene slide if it meant removing Seriously, gently caress mascot characters and gently caress Chu-Chu even harder. And I didn't mean that literally, Fei, you dirty dirty furry.
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Feb 14, 2018 04:13
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I spent way more time playing the card game in 1 than actually playing that game. Seriously, that poo poo owned.
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Feb 14, 2018 04:35
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Bufuman posted:I would be willing to let the removal of the Crucifixion scene slide if it meant removing but then we'd lose the chuchu orgy
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Feb 14, 2018 04:48
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These days the Chuchus would be Nopons and you know it. ...I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse.
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Feb 14, 2018 04:55
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Bufuman posted:I would be willing to let the removal of the Crucifixion scene slide if it meant removing The crucifixion scene is integral to the original vision and to remove it would be akin to pissing on the game.
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Feb 14, 2018 04:56
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Materant posted:These days the Chuchus would be Nopons and you know it. Nopon verrrycoool! 
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Feb 14, 2018 05:02
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The Nopon are a proud and majestic people. Great Heropon Riki undertook his noble ordeals, that the sins of all his mascot forbears might be absolved. We're not sure it worked, but we salute him anyway.
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Feb 14, 2018 05:18
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Mazed posted:The Nopon are a proud and majestic people. The role of Heropon is explicitly one of "either they succeed and keep the village safe, or they get eaten. Either way, problem solved."
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Feb 14, 2018 05:47
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Bufuman posted:I would be willing to let the removal of the Crucifixion scene slide if it meant removing ftfy
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Feb 14, 2018 06:12
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Chucifixion
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Feb 14, 2018 06:33
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Materant posted:These days the Chuchus would be Nopons and you know it. They do have enough design similarities that it makes me wonder if the original designer wanted to redo them and make something that wasn't a complete aberration of nature.
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Feb 14, 2018 06:54
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I remember reading a Xenogears LP and stopping about the time an act ended and about another entire act's worth of plot developments got presented as one big wall-of-text. Is there anything worthwhile beyond that point?
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Feb 14, 2018 09:53
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The Lone Badger posted:I remember reading a Xenogears LP and stopping about the time an act ended and about another entire act's worth of plot developments got presented as one big wall-of-text. Is there anything worthwhile beyond that point? I'd say every part of Xenogears is worth it especially if you read thedarkid's LP
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Feb 14, 2018 11:17
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The Lone Badger posted:I remember reading a Xenogears LP and stopping about the time an act ended and about another entire act's worth of plot developments got presented as one big wall-of-text. Is there anything worthwhile beyond that point? There is. Xenogears is one of my all-time favorite games and I love it dearly, but I can certainly understand the people who were turned off by the first half or so of disk 2.
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