Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

Wastrel_: Jun 3, 2004; Read it and weep.

Just opted into the beta to give it a shot, Graze is fun to use but there are too many loving dozers on One Down. On confined maps like Panic Room there's just no space to take cover from one without another being around the corner to kill you. Dozer health is also ridiculous at the moment. Dozers are currently artificial difficulty and definitely need to be nerfed in some way.

quote:

-they know stealth has flaws and doesn't scale with difficulty, they don't have concrete plans yet, Jules said they discussed adding a timer to stealth. But if they do overhaul stealth they'll let us know beforehand [this is a loving terrible idea]

More fake difficulty, what a surprise.

# ? Feb 11, 2018 05:15

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# ? May 30, 2024 15:00

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

A running theme with these issues is Jules doesn't understand, and undermines, any aspect of the game that relies on or interacts with the actual heist map.

# ? Feb 11, 2018 05:18

Ferrovanadium: Mar 22, 2013; APEX PREDATOR

-MOST AMMUNITION EXPENDED ON CIVILIANS 2015-PRESENT
-WORST KDR VS CIVILIANS 2015-PRESENT

Discendo Vox posted:

[Jules doesn't get it.]

payday_2_under_jules.txt

# ? Feb 11, 2018 05:44

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

This increased spawncap needs to loving go.

# ? Feb 11, 2018 06:12

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Discendo Vox posted:

-they may add picking up grenades from Fully Loaded into the base game for non dlc owners,said they'd partially implemented it with the ai skill that gives you grenades, but in the future as they'd have to redo the ammo skill tree and ai skills

I'm sorry, what? How is that not already there?

quote:

-they tried giving the minidozer more faceplate health instead of hp, but it was too easy to remove because of explosives, and the hp would be huge to not be weak to them [there are several ways to fix this]

Are visors treated as something special? Why can't the faceplate have an explosion clamp like headless dozers, Winters and his phalanx? Why can't it have a explosion multiplier of less than 1 like those admittedly lesser known units, the shield and heavy SWAT? Does Jules even give a gently caress about what the game does already? Does it just not exist to him if he doesn't gently caress it up personally?

No. It's not even that, is it? Why can't whatever the gently caress the Crime Spree modifier does to make bulldozers immune to explosions not apply to the faceplate?

quote:

-Jules thinks the solution to turrets destroying ai teammates is add hp scaling with the amount of human players [Jules doesn't get it.]

How in the gently caress has he never seen what happens to AI teammates around turrets?

quote:

-to Jules Inspire has been in the game so long nerfing it would hurt everyone, Jules thinks it makes the game more fun

Playable. He meant playable. With Swan Song's length cut and all invincibility being rather short, reviving someone who died even an inch outside cover requires a speed boost at the minimum to be possible on One Down. Base time is 6 seconds, a single cop can kill you in 0.7 seconds - simple math.

quote:

-said low ammo pickup on medium assault rifles (amr etc) is okay if you use semi auto and priorities accurate shots, said they also see use with body expertise and would be too powerful then with more pickup

What medium assault rifles has he been using and how does he think a 2.74 average on the AMR-16 is at all reasonable when the KSPs get 22.95?

quote:

-can't talk about workshop custom heists, says it's harder than it seems

I guess "You've got mods for that" is more Joakim's line.

Also:

quote:

they don't [...] want to do "a weird fix that won't fix anything"

# ? Feb 11, 2018 14:01

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

In the meantime 160 sniper rifles are outperforming DMRs because of Graze.

Also I have no idea if explosive multipliers/clamps are fixed yet. They broke it last August.

UnknownMercenary fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Feb 11, 2018

# ? Feb 11, 2018 14:29

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

One caveat here is the faceplate and dozer armor in general is handled differently from normal enemy health. I don't know if giving it a clamp or explosive resistance would be a simple fix.

# ? Feb 11, 2018 21:43

Prokhor Zakharov: Dec 31, 2008; This is me as I make another great post

Good luck with your depression!

If Jules ends up doing this stuff to 3 I might just skip it entirely, what a shitshow.

# ? Feb 11, 2018 22:29

TopHatGenius: Oct 3, 2008; something feels
different; Hot Rope Guy

There's nothing like running a bunch of pubbies through Overdrill and making it all the way through. :unsmith:

There's also nothing like having all of them get downed and into custody during the escape so I have to do the C4 escape and bag moving by myself :smithicide:

I escaped after sorting through the bags and pulling out 8 money bags

# ? Feb 13, 2018 05:07

Thefluffy: Sep 7, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvWIHlQEaBU graze is a well balanced skill

# ? Feb 13, 2018 21:51

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

And Captain Winters is an otherwise difficult encounter.

# ? Feb 13, 2018 22:06

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

i mean, you either punk winters almost immediately or the buffs he drops on the cops get out of control and you start losing, hard, in very short order.

on one hand i can't say it's a bad thing for there to be a way to handle him outside of explosives, on the other hand a sniper rifle basically becoming quid-pro-quo rocket launchers that can pick up ammo is a design decision that probably could have been thought through better.

# ? Feb 13, 2018 22:52

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

To be fair to Graze, it can't deal any more damage than the actual shot did so shooting an already-injured cop tends to work out very poorly.

To negate that fairness entirely, the only things out of immediate reach of a heavy sniper rifle are crimelords, swat van turrets and bulldozers.

maswastaken fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Feb 13, 2018

# ? Feb 13, 2018 23:10

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

yeah, it basically means that you shoot for the one hit quit breakpoint for the tan swat equivalent of your difficulty range and just prioritize those targets. entire squads fall over if you hit the hard guy, and that dude is generally the one you've wanted to shoot since Death Wish was the new hotness so it's not even a difficult context switch.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 00:24

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

Thefluffy posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvWIHlQEaBU graze is a well balanced skill

DMRs are still too OP though. Can't have them pick up more than 1 bullet, ever.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 00:48

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

why does graze turn your sniper rifle into a pseudo shotgun

what the gently caress is jules doing

# ? Feb 14, 2018 00:53

TopHatGenius: Oct 3, 2008; something feels
different; Hot Rope Guy

Either it won't be fixed post beta or it will be nerfed into oblivion. It's hilarious.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 01:03

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Kith posted:

what the gently caress is jules doing

Taking two completely unrelated problems:

Specialised Killing is a straight up point tax in One Down.
No one uses Sniper Rifles

And producing two very related solutions:

Remove both the need and option to take Specialised Killing
Add a comically overpowered Sniper Rifle skill

# ? Feb 14, 2018 01:34

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

I am largely okay with the removal of Specialized Killing, although if he wanted to go all the way he would've given a slight bump to DMR damage just so they match revolvers.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 02:29

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

I am glad I did all the one down heists before this, IMO.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 03:21

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Oh boy, new beta changes!

quote:

Mutators
Alternate Arsenal will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
Because of Training will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
BFFs will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
Clone Army Arsenal will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
Extraterrestrial Heisters will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
Friendly Fire will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
Hurt Me More will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
Hydras will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
Over Dozed will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.
Waking Nightmare will no longer reduce Experience and Money gained when active.

Skills
Trigger Happy

Basic: Damage boost has been increased to 120% (up from 20%) and will now only stack 1 time (down from 4).

Aced: The damage boost increased duration has been reduced to 4 (down from 10).
Developer notes: With the removal of Specialized Killer skill, pistols started lagging behind some of the other weapons. Our hope was that player would move to the trigger-happy skill but because of how clunky that skill works, this was not the case. Therefore we made the above-mentioned changes with the intention to make sure we keep pistols viable in the game.

Pretty sure the Aced version of the skill is all but useless for any pistol with a rate of fire worth a drat but what do I know?

# ? Feb 14, 2018 16:09

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

maswastaken posted:

Oh boy, new beta changes!

Pretty sure the Aced version of the skill is all but useless for any pistol with a rate of fire worth a drat but what do I know?

So when damage would go from 10 => 12 it will now go 10 => 22? But only for four seconds. So its like a bad version of Overkill?

or am I misunderstanding and need to wake up more before I try to interpret Overkillese.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 16:24

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

So when damage would go from 10 => 12 it will now go 10 => 22? But only for four seconds. So its like a bad version of Overkill?

or am I misunderstanding and need to wake up more before I try to interpret Overkillese.

Current trigger happy gives you a 20% damage boost everytime you shoot a cop. You can get this four times.
So you can get a max damage bonus of 80%

The beta one gives you a 120% damage boost everytime you shoot a cop, but you can only get it once every so often.

Basically, pistols will get an EXTRA 40% damage boost from the beta skill. As long as you double tap.

*Unless I too am grossly missing something.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 16:35

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Trigger Happy's effect was exponential, so four stacks was +107.36% damage and they all had separate cooldowns that didn't refresh. As long as you shot regularly enough, you pretty much always had at least +72.8% pistol damage even with Basic.

As long as the not refreshing part is in play and the game continues to hide what's active or on cooldown from you, high ammo/RoF pistols might as well compensate for the uncertainty and lack of consistency by just vomiting bullets at everything rather than spend 8 points. As for revolvers, maybe they're desperate enough?

maswastaken fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Feb 14, 2018

# ? Feb 14, 2018 16:50

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

why not just buff base pistol damage and make trigger happy into something that isn't a point tax

# ? Feb 14, 2018 21:13

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Most other weapon classes are like that. LMGs, Sniper Rifles, Shotguns, all pretty much reliant on their absurdly strong tier 4s.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 21:22

chairface: Oct 28, 2007; No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

maswastaken posted:

Most other weapon classes are like that. LMGs, Sniper Rifles, Shotguns, all pretty much reliant on their absurdly strong tier 4s.

Shotguns being reliant on overkill, fair enough. Sniper rifles on the graze thing, yeah, I agree. LMGs don't really need body expertise at present; they're strong loving guns regardless of their t4.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 21:34

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

Body Expertise + tan armor piercing just means you never need to aim to murder everything.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 23:01

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

chairface posted:

LMGs don't really need body expertise at present; they're strong loving guns regardless of their t4.

That's only because Jules can't take the subtle _{as a brick through the window} hint people had been dropping for months to just make Body Expertise function like his muh-breakpoints design demands and instead just looked at usage statistics and pushed everything up a breakpoint or seven.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 00:15

Fuuka Ayase: Apr 25, 2017; Literally Hitler

Due to NDA, I cannot disclose my source without getting them fired, but I have been informed of some potential Dozer changes coming soon.

Dozers will now:
-No longer have guns
-Walk faster
-Have walk sounds increased in volume.
-Have walk sounds made independent of volume slider
-Attempt to initiate grapples on players
-Will throw a grappled player
-Put any player thrown in to a wall in to an immediate downed state that consumes a down.
-Will occasionally spawn as suicide dozers that explode upon successfully grappling a player.
-Will do heavy splash damage upon exploding
-Will do a sliding lunge as part of initiating a grapple.

They said they wanted to work in player collisions for dozers damaging players with other players, but they were having trouble with it. So don't expect anything too fancy.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 09:11

Kikas: Oct 30, 2012

Fuuka Ayase posted:

Due to NDA, I cannot disclose my source without getting them fired, but I have been informed of some potential Dozer changes coming soon.

Dozers will now:
-No longer have guns
-Walk faster
-Have walk sounds increased in volume.
-Have walk sounds made independent of volume slider
-Attempt to initiate grapples on players
-Will throw a grappled player
-Put any player thrown in to a wall in to an immediate downed state that consumes a down.
-Will occasionally spawn as suicide dozers that explode upon successfully grappling a player.
-Will do heavy splash damage upon exploding
-Will do a sliding lunge as part of initiating a grapple.

They said they wanted to work in player collisions for dozers damaging players with other players, but they were having trouble with it. So don't expect anything too fancy.

Looking forward to getting chokeslammed through a window.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 12:47

Fellis: Feb 14, 2012; Kid, don't threaten me. There are worse things than death, and uh, I can do all of them.

There�s a new dozer in town....

AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CEENAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUWxAHapGqM

# ? Feb 15, 2018 14:41

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Fuuka Ayase posted:

Due to NDA, I cannot disclose my source without getting them fired, but I have been informed of some potential Dozer changes coming soon.

Dozers will now:
-No longer have guns
-Walk faster
-Have walk sounds increased in volume.
-Have walk sounds made independent of volume slider
-Attempt to initiate grapples on players
-Will throw a grappled player
-Put any player thrown in to a wall in to an immediate downed state that consumes a down.
-Will occasionally spawn as suicide dozers that explode upon successfully grappling a player.
-Will do heavy splash damage upon exploding
-Will do a sliding lunge as part of initiating a grapple.

They said they wanted to work in player collisions for dozers damaging players with other players, but they were having trouble with it. So don't expect anything too fancy.

Bad joke or ovk? Who the gently caress knows?

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:45

Fuuka Ayase: Apr 25, 2017; Literally Hitler

Why would I lie?

# ? Feb 16, 2018 06:05

TopHatGenius: Oct 3, 2008; something feels
different; Hot Rope Guy

Fuuka Ayase posted:

Due to NDA, I cannot disclose my source without getting them fired, but I have been informed of some potential Dozer changes coming soon.

Dozers will now:
-No longer have guns
-Walk faster
-Have walk sounds increased in volume.
-Have walk sounds made independent of volume slider
-Attempt to initiate grapples on players
-Will throw a grappled player
-Put any player thrown in to a wall in to an immediate downed state that consumes a down.
-Will occasionally spawn as suicide dozers that explode upon successfully grappling a player.
-Will do heavy splash damage upon exploding
-Will do a sliding lunge as part of initiating a grapple.

They said they wanted to work in player collisions for dozers damaging players with other players, but they were having trouble with it. So don't expect anything too fancy.

Finally, the Cloakerdozer. :allears: