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This question might sound ridiculously ignorant so I apologize in advance. I know I am coming from an extremely Euro-centric point of view. How does Chinese historiography of their ancient/medieval history compare to that for Europe and the Middle East? Because from my very limited understanding it seems to be well behind that of the west. Now I'm sure that there are tons of Chinese sources that have never been translated into English but hasn't the ultra strict rule of the PRC inhibited our ability to study it both inside and outside the country? Our understanding of the ancient Western world has evolved so much that its been basically transformed since the 19th century but has the same thing happened in China?
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Feb 12, 2018 23:43
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Jazerus posted:the scandinavians, desperate to believe they don't all just speak norse The Icelanders literally do tho And nobody else in Scandinavia can understand them.
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Feb 13, 2018 00:05
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhR9kvsxmuE As an Icelander can understand basically every word of this but modern Norwegian is a lot trickier.
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Feb 13, 2018 00:08
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:This question might sound ridiculously ignorant so I apologize in advance. I know I am coming from an extremely Euro-centric point of view. I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you mean "how does modern Chinese historiography of ancient/medieval China compare to modern Western historiography of ancient/medieval China?" or "how does modern Chinese historiography of ancient/medieval China compare to modern Western historiography of the ancient West?" or something else entirely?
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Feb 13, 2018 00:39
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fantastic in plastic posted:I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you mean "how does modern Chinese historiography of ancient/medieval China compare to modern Western historiography of ancient/medieval China?" or "how does modern Chinese historiography of ancient/medieval China compare to modern Western historiography of the ancient West?" or something else entirely? The latter.
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Feb 13, 2018 00:41
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HEY GUNS posted:people have told me that since i know english and german i should be able to understand dutch. this is a lie. I can mostly read Dutch on this basis, but I can't understand speech AT ALL.
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Feb 13, 2018 00:55
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glynnenstein posted:I can mostly read Dutch on this basis, but I can't understand speech AT ALL. they're just clearing their throats at each other all the time
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Feb 13, 2018 00:57
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The latter. I can't speak to it fully but something that keeps coming up while I'm reading about (now-in-China) ancient northeast Asia is stuff like "there was a Chinese dig at this site 20 years ago that seems to have uncovered something really interesting, but they refuse to publish a report or let anyone look at the findings." Western historians get reasonable-ish access normally I think; it seems like sometimes they have to be a bit coy about what they're actually looking for while they're in China but it's not modern North Korea levels or anything. Chinese historians obviously get a whole lot more access. Notably Korean historians are pretty much flat banned from doing anything in the northeast because of all the controversies around who gets to claim the ancient states and so on there, and I would be unsurprised if Japanese historians have a similarly hard time. I also get the impression access has gotten markedly worse over the past couple of decades, newer books seem to bring it up a lot more. Another thing to mention is that like 99% of Chinese archaeology is rescue archaeology, trying to salvage what they can before a new road gets built on top of it and so on, because there's so much development these days that there's pretty much no time or resources for archaeologists to be doing anything more directed, which I expect (although I'm not a historian) leads to some problems in what kind of data becomes available. The books (by western historians) I read don't tend to actively distrust the data or anything though, it's not like Imperial Japan or North Korea actively forging artifacts or anything. The history from Chinese historians itself is more of a mixed bag, and a lot that I've read on that is also from western historians who are probably trying to not scupper their chances of working in China in the future as they write. In general, while maybe methodology and expertise is getting better, state meddling for propagandist reasons has been getting worse lately. Koramei fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 01:19
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Apparently we have a surviving account of a second-century Greek writer just gushing about how his dog is the best and listing all of her cute quirks, which I find hilarious and adorable The entire video containing that anecdote is great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDh2zGgVZzM
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Feb 13, 2018 01:46
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cheetah7071 posted:Apparently we have a surviving account of a second-century Greek writer just gushing about how his dog is the best and listing all of her cute quirks, which I find hilarious and adorable Dog story is awesome but Xenophon's book on horseback riding is good too! The enunciation in that video is a little strange, sounds like speech-to-text with each word carefully enunciated separately.
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Feb 13, 2018 02:18
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glynnenstein posted:I can mostly read Dutch on this basis, but I can't understand speech AT ALL. Yeah, that's the boat I'm in.
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Feb 13, 2018 03:44
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I lived in francophone belgium for a while and my first time in dutch class I was absolutely baffled by the teacher going around the class saying "who hates you" and getting the reply "I hate [name]"
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Feb 13, 2018 03:48
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Dog story is awesome but Xenophon's book on horseback riding is good too! It's an exceptionally pronounced variation of that obnoxious podcast accent literally everyone seems to use.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:11
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hailthefish posted:It's an exceptionally pronounced variation of that obnoxious podcast accent literally everyone seems to use. That makes sense, I'm old enough that I still mostly "read text" like a dinosaur instead of listening to podcasts & streams. Makes more sense than my initial "the AIs are taking our ancient history youtube streaming jobs" theory.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:36
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The real fancy peeps do some crazy voice masking poo poo on top of talking in that loving obnoxious stilted style. I can't stand it and much prefer to actually read words at my own (usually much faster) pace but that's much harder to monetize so welcome to 201X- it sucks.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:41
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I mostly like that it cuts the cool history stuff into ten or twenty minute chunks, unlike a book which is hours of commitment. Obviously different media have their advantages and disadvantages
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Feb 13, 2018 04:45
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cheetah7071 posted:I mostly like that it cuts the cool history stuff into ten or twenty minute chunks, unlike a book which is hours of commitment. Obviously different media have their advantages and disadvantages The only benefit is that I can listen to podcasts during my hour long commute. If we ever get self driving cars in my lifetime that poo poo stops right away and out come the books again.
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Feb 13, 2018 05:08
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That makes sense, I'm old enough that I still mostly "read text" like a dinosaur instead of listening to podcasts & streams. Makes more sense than my initial "the AIs are taking our ancient history youtube streaming jobs" theory. books are great and all but I'm not going to read them while cooking or driving or doing laundry so I don't really see the two as being in competition
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Feb 13, 2018 05:10
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Yeah, podcasts are better suited to be a replacement for talk radio than a replacement for books.
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Feb 13, 2018 05:13
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Podcasts are nice, but when I have to go back and double check something I heard in a podcast, it's hell. Not very good for reference material.
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Feb 13, 2018 05:32
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hailthefish posted:It's an exceptionally pronounced variation of that obnoxious podcast accent literally everyone seems to use. There are a lot of podcasts and youtube channels that I'm interested in but the speaker's voice is annoying or they have annoying vocal tics, so I give up after an episode or two. There's something to be said for speaking with deliberate elocution.
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Feb 13, 2018 05:43
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Dog story is awesome but Xenophon's book on horseback riding is good too! When you posted this I went up to re-listen to the video and was like "huh, seems normal to me?" Before I remembered I had it on 1.5x speed. I watch all of these sort of educational videos and listen to all my podcasts between 1.3-2x, at which speeds this kind of weird affectation I think helps makes things clearer. Weirdly I think my comprehension is greatest at about 1.3, if only because my mind seems less likely to wander than when the the recording is too slow. Edgar Allen Ho posted:Were non-roman soldiers taught commands in Latin or did officers use a local language? Speaking of podcasts, I recall the history of Byzantium podcast talked about how the sixth century Byzantine military manual the Strategikon gives a list of latin military commands still in use by the Roman army. It's been a while since I listened to the episode but I believe he mentioned how at least some of them continued to be used well into the middle ages, and the strategikon itself was updated possibly as late as the 9th century implying it was still in use by Roman leaders.
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Feb 13, 2018 06:41
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I still read but have a way worst attention span now thanks to this stupid phone, so now most books I get through are audiobooks. Plus, I can listen to stories of the Great War while actually killing Germans in Battlefield One.
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Feb 13, 2018 06:54
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Petri Hiltunen, a Finnish comic artist did a two-part album based on Anabasis and the word has it that it's getting translated. The Finnish cover is linked below, I liked it a lot. (the title says "Part One - the War of Cyrus" 
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Feb 13, 2018 15:07
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Ataxerxes posted:Petri Hiltunen, a Finnish comic artist did a two-part album based on Anabasis and the word has it that it's getting translated. The Finnish cover is linked below, I liked it a lot. drat, that's good news. Petri Hiltunen's art looks cool as hell and I've been wishing I could read it for a while.
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Feb 13, 2018 15:23
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Cyrano4747 posted:If we ever get self driving cars in my lifetime that poo poo stops right away and out come the books again. Not for me. I go all  when reading in a car (not on trains, strangely).
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Feb 13, 2018 18:03
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Ataxerxes posted:Petri Hiltunen, a Finnish comic artist did a two-part album based on Anabasis and the word has it that it's getting translated. The Finnish cover is linked below, I liked it a lot. Ooohh Every year or so I go check and see if the Landmark Anabasis is out yet, it's been listed as in production for . . like a decade?
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Feb 13, 2018 18:06
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Squalid posted:When you posted this I went up to re-listen to the video and was like "huh, seems normal to me?" Before I remembered I had it on 1.5x speed. I watch all of these sort of educational videos and listen to all my podcasts between 1.3-2x, at which speeds this kind of weird affectation I think helps makes things clearer. I remember that one. Especially how right before the lines hit the officer would say "Remember you are romans" and then "May god help us." Chilling. Incidentally both Mike Duncan of History of Rome and... british guy of Byzantium don't use obnoxious podcast voice, they sound like charming dweebs and Duncan is pretty good at deadpan humour.
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Feb 14, 2018 00:06
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I've still got no idea what yall are getting at with "the annoying podcast voice".
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Feb 14, 2018 00:52
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History of Byzantium has nearly 200 episodes and is only up to 1025.
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Feb 14, 2018 02:03
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:History of Byzantium has nearly 200 episodes and is only up to 1025. I imagine it'll start going much faster around 1060 or so
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Feb 14, 2018 03:13
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:I imagine it'll start going much faster around 1060 or so He's not going to reach the Crusades until sometime in 2019. Maybe.
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Feb 14, 2018 03:54
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:History of Byzantium has nearly 200 episodes and is only up to 1025. He'll take a break between 1204 and 1280.
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Feb 14, 2018 03:56
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:History of Byzantium has nearly 200 episodes and is only up to 1025. I know, it's great. I also have no idea what "annoying podcast voice" is supposed to mean.
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Feb 14, 2018 05:41
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I remember that one. Especially how right before the lines hit the officer would say "Remember you are romans" and then "May god help us." Chilling. I went looking for the commands in the strategikon and someone on the total war forum typed them up and translated them into English from the index from an Italian book. Shamelessly stolen: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?514809-STRATEGIKON-Roman-Latin-Commands quote:'Maurizio Imperatore, Strategicon. Manuale di arte militare dell'Impero Romano d'Oriente' The strategikon's traditional attribution to the Emperor Maurice places it right at the time when the Emperors were first becoming native Greek speakers, but before native Greek speakers had become a majority of the population. That probably occurred after the Arab conquests. Maurice himself was from Cappadocia and was either Greek or a Hellenized Armenian. For short commands given in combat I'm not sure the language would matter much, the meaning has to be memorized and completely unambiguous, so I would think it would be easy for phrases to be conserved over long times. However I wonder about the long phrases like SIVE PUGNAS SIVE SEQUES INIMICUM SIVE AEQUALIS FACIES, NON FORTE MINARE UT NE SPARGES TU SUUM ORDINEM, which sounds less like a command than a slogan or motto.
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Feb 14, 2018 06:11
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Hmm. What does double phalanx mean exactly? Thanks for the post, by the way.
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Feb 14, 2018 06:49
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Grand Fromage posted:I know, it's great. Listening to the History of Byzantium now. I just reached the overview at 600(episode 42 or so) and he mentioned Peter Charanis’ story about how folks on the island of Lemnos still called themselves Romans. That led me to a rabbit hole which somehow ended with me landing here: http://www.romanity.org um, yeah, great website
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Feb 14, 2018 07:35
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Tree Bucket posted:Hmm. What does double phalanx mean exactly? I wasn't sure either so I looked it up. Phalanxes were notoriously vulnerable to flanking, and so two modifications were used to address that weakness. One was the double phalanx, which was a second reserve line of equal or lesser size behind or to the rear oblique of the phalanx line - they'd remain unengaged during combat and therefore be available to respond to counterattacks. The Roman maniple system can be seen as an extension of this phalanx modification. The other solution was called an articulated phalanx, and involved salting the formation with groups of lighter armed soldiers that were part of the wall but not engaged in phalangite tactics. As such, they would be better able to respond to incursions. I'm imagining something similar to the Spanish tercios of the 16th century, where specialized defensive sub-units would act as quick-reaction forces.
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Feb 14, 2018 14:27
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I'm not sure that "attention!" is a great translation for "siga kai proseche toi paraggellomenos". Rendered more literally, it's "shut up and receive your orders".
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Feb 14, 2018 18:23
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Kaal posted:I wasn't sure either so I looked it up. Phalanxes were notoriously vulnerable to flanking, and so two modifications were used to address that weakness. One was the double phalanx, which was a second reserve line of equal or lesser size behind or to the rear oblique of the phalanx line - they'd remain unengaged during combat and therefore be available to respond to counterattacks. The Roman maniple system can be seen as an extension of this phalanx modification. was this not an option for a phalanx
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Feb 14, 2018 21:37
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