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Guy Mann posted:I can't believe we're getting a sequel to Wreck-It Ralph before we're getting a movie made using the Paperman tech. Also, I feel like I'm the only guy on Earth who was underwhelmed by Paperman's aesthetic. I know the stated goal was to work on tech that'd allow CG to look just like hand-drawn animation, but the end result doesn't look like 2D, it looks like 3D CG with a nice filter. Everything was just a little bit too perfectly-done, from subtle angle changes of the model to the lighting thereof, in a way that only computer algorithms tend to do, which broke the illusion they were shooting for for me - probably related to the uncanny valley effect or something. Still aesthetically very pleasing, but people kept making it out to have been a game-changer that nailed its stated objective, and sorry, I just don't see it; at best, it's merely a great first step.
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Feb 11, 2018 20:36
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Get Arc System Works to make a movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRFxs1BEFk
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Feb 11, 2018 21:05
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Shadow Hog posted:IIRC Moana was going to be that movie, but for one reason or another, the tech wasn't ready for a full-length motion picture, so they dropped it and went with what we got instead. You’re not the only one. I didn’t like it much either. I’ve seen some other CG/2D hybrids I like the look of more.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:28
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paradoxGentleman posted:The "Home Stay Home" picture makes me wonder if this is going to be an introverts vs. extroverts thing. Now I'm paranoid The Grinch isn't going to be a holiday movie
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Feb 11, 2018 21:34
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Sinners Sandwich posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVWnjqfP49Y ... I'm sorry, what? I'm not really entirely sure what I just witnessed here, and I'm baffling at what the gently caress it's supposed to have to do with the Grinch except for having a vaguely annoyed green furry in it. Sinners Sandwich posted:Now I'm paranoid The Grinch isn't going to be a holiday movie I would say the fact that they're advertising it in February with... the Grinch ice skating...? kind of seals this
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Feb 11, 2018 21:40
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ThermoPhysical posted:A friend of mine saw Peter Rabbit and said it's...not...too bad? Like, if you go in expecting ANYTHING based on the original source material, you will hate it with the passion of 1,000 suns but...if you don't, it's not bad. I just got home from seeing it with my kid and I can confirm. It's not quite as horrible as the trailers make it look but Peter is an insufferable dick and the movie is constantly jabbing you in the ribs so you don't miss how hip and clever and meta it is. There are some good jokes buried in the mess, but they're surrounded by a thousand lame ones. The animation, and the interaction between animated and live characters, is quite good and it's a shame the effort wasn't spent on a better movie. There are also a couple of scenes that were really uncomfortable for a kids' movie -- old Farmer McGregor keels over from a massive heart attack right on screen and Peter pokes him in the eye to make sure he's dead. He even gets praised by the other characters for "killing" McGregor. There's also a bit where the rabbits shoot blackberries into the younger McGregor's mouth, knowing he's allergic to them, and he goes into shock and has to use an EpiPen to save himself. You better believe the food allergy crowd isn't thrilled about that one.
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Feb 11, 2018 22:06
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Shadow Hog posted:IIRC Moana was going to be that movie, but for one reason or another, the tech wasn't ready for a full-length motion picture, so they dropped it and went with what we got instead. I believe it's Tangled, the original pitch had it look like a Rococo-era oil painting, but they just could not get it to work.
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Feb 12, 2018 00:46
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:... I'm sorry, what? You're thinking too hard about a quick teaser tying in to the Winter Olympics. It's a very good chance that this teaser has nothing to do with the content of the movie, like the first trailer for Frozen. Like seriously, this thing is as related to the actual movie as the Happy Meal commercial for Sing was. Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 00:52
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Waffleman_ posted:You're thinking too hard about a quick teaser tying in to the Winter Olympics. It's a very good chance that this teaser has nothing to do with the content of the movie, like the first trailer for Frozen. There is an incredibles trailer in the same style where the incredibles are sitting on a couch in a white void watching the olympics and like ice skating and half pipe snowboarding, so yeah, olympics pixar stuff seems just custom made for the ads.
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Feb 12, 2018 03:14
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ThermoPhysical posted:A friend of mine saw Peter Rabbit and said it's...not...too bad? Like, if you go in expecting ANYTHING based on the original source material, you will hate it with the passion of 1,000 suns but...if you don't, it's not bad. I think Animal Logic did the CG and they're tops at creature animation. It's sad that the top craftsmen get wasted on these mediocre movies. That's some drat good fluidity but man is it manic. Like if it was put up for criticism I would say tone down the arm movements a bunch.
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Feb 12, 2018 03:20
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Waffleman_ posted:You're thinking too hard about a quick teaser tying in to the Winter Olympics. It's a very good chance that this teaser has nothing to do with the content of the movie, like the first trailer for Frozen. On the other hand, this is basically the first thing we're seeing of the Grinch movie, from what I know. I don't think the Happy Meal commercial for Sing was the first foot put forward on that movie's marketing. e: Like, I'm not shocked in a vacuum by this, I'm just... baffled that they're leading with that. e2: Also, on the note of Animal Logic being a really talented studio: Peter Rabbit is part of their push into becoming a full-fledged studio instead of just a VFX house (built off the back of them doing almost all the animation heavy-lifting for all three theatrical Lego movies so far). According to Wikipedia, they've got an Astro Boy movie and a Bone movie in the pipe. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 03:31
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Saw this linked in a Discord I'm in, though people might care: https://twitter.com/Stylopidae/status/962508002719920128 Robindaybird posted:I believe it's Tangled, the original pitch had it look like a Rococo-era oil painting, but they just could not get it to work. Neon Noodle posted:You’re not the only one. I didn’t like it much either. I’ve seen some other CG/2D hybrids I like the look of more. Outta curiosity, which ones did you think were more convincing? Like, I do think Arc System Works's recent fighting games, like Guilty Gear Xrd and Dragon Ball FighterZ, look shockingly convincingly-2D despite being 3D models, for instance.
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Feb 12, 2018 03:44
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:
Wow I surprised they were able to get Astro Boy greenlit. The last Astro Boy film was the death of Imagi studio. quote:Outta curiosity, which ones did you think were more convincing? Like, I do think Arc System Works's recent fighting games, like Guilty Gear Xrd and Dragon Ball FighterZ, look shockingly convincingly-2D despite being 3D models, for instance. There's quite a lot of anime studios making advancements in 2d to look like 3d. Sanzigen, Arc Sys, Khara, Orange. Arc's pipeline would be difficult to translate to a film because they rely on some very specific lighting camera angles for their face shadows to work. TV series usually don't use that same tailor-made approach since they have so much more footage to churn through. Orange has probably done the best CG for TV I've seen recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwFpAyEuph8&t=20s Ccs fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 03:49
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Selachian posted:There's also a bit where the rabbits shoot blackberries into the younger McGregor's mouth, knowing he's allergic to them, and he goes into shock and has to use an EpiPen to save himself. You better believe the food allergy crowd isn't thrilled about that one.
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Feb 12, 2018 03:49
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Ccs posted:Orange has probably done the best CG for TV I've seen recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwFpAyEuph8&t=20s see, there's something I've noticed about literally all of this 3DCG anime made for TV: it's weirdly choppy not having in-between frames doesn't make 3DCG look like 2D cel animation, it just makes it look like absolute poo poo and one of the things that ASW gets extremely right is they don't loving do that
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Feb 12, 2018 03:58
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Paperman wasn't about making 3d that looks 2d with frame rate and shading tricks, it was an actual synthesis of hand-drawn 2d animation on 3d assets. It's completely different.
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Feb 12, 2018 04:03
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:see, there's something I've noticed about literally all of this 3DCG anime made for TV: it's weirdly choppy Yeah it's cause most drawn anime is done 8 drawings per second. So CG artists there are also trained that way. I attended a Japanese online animation class and the teacher's advice to the students was to watch every movie with 1/3rd of the frames taken out using a program so that they'd learn how to do spacing for animation correctly. The choppiness is considered appealing. I've been watching anime so long I also prefer that aesthetic. Ccs fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 04:59
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Speaking of anime does anyone else think the final battle of Mune looks like it took a bunch of animation directly from FLCL? Specifically from the fight with the trenchcoat hand monster? It's got someone running up an arm AND the weird "pulling a squiggly thing out of a person" animation that both seemed really similar.
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Feb 12, 2018 05:03
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Ccs posted:Yeah it's cause most drawn anime is done 8 drawings per second. So CG artists there are also trained that way. this is... either missing my point or completely, hilariously wrong, depending on what you mean by this anime is done 8 keyframes per second. they then send these keyframes to in-betweening studios (which are usually other big anime studios trying to scrape together money for their next project) to smooth it out. this is why you sometimes get really hilarious and janky screengrabs from otherwise well-animated anime, because in-betweens aren't really supposed to look good when freeze-framed so much as they're supposed to make the transition from keyframe to keyframe look nice and smooth. 2D anime is not typically released at 8fps unless it's so low-budget they literally couldn't afford an in-between house. CG anime is, for the most part, only keyframes. there's no real in-between animation, so the animation just kind of jerkily moves from keyframe to keyframe at 8fps like a game running on a system that can't handle it. e: like, in that clip, when the girl's putting the other girl's arm on. that's one of the bits where it's most noticeable, because the motion it's depicting is clearly intended to be a smooth motion but the animation turns it into an odd slideshow; the frame rate doesn't create quite as much dissonance when the motion being depicted is supposed to be kind of jerky and mechanical. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 05:16
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Ccs posted:The choppiness is considered appealing. This is less "japan loves bad animation!" and more a specific thing that specific sorts of action scenes look way better with less frames because a certain sort of nonfluidity gives power and impact to certain motions. Like a punch that is animated very fluidly and a punch that are animated stiffly with a bunch of intentionally missing frames are interpreted differently. Even calling high frame rate animation "fluid" and low frame rate as "stiff" shows how people think of the two. A gundam punching where frame one is the punch starting then the next new frame is another robot with it's face caved in looks very different than one where every frame of the punch is actually on screen, even if they are played out in identical time frames.
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Feb 12, 2018 16:25
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it always baffles me that anime studios seem to not use the properties of low-fps animation to their advantage a lot more
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Feb 12, 2018 17:05
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I've been mainly anime-free since 2009 or so, but I remember that Studio Gainax used to use the choppiness for effect a lot, so you'd get (like stated earlier) "exploding" punches. I watched an episode of One Punch Man on Netflix awhile ago and they seemed to do similar, which was pretty cool. Completely missed this 3D CG bullshit, though. It looks so weird and if that trailer is an example of a "good" studio, uh.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:49
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:this is... either missing my point or completely, hilariously wrong, depending on what you mean by this This is incorrect. https://wavemotioncannon.com/2016/12/31/an-introduction-to-framerate-modulation/ If you don't believe me, look at this example where they step through an action scene. The fireball moves at 24 fps while the bird moves at 12 fps. https://videopress.com/v/Fy4tsp4A That's a movie. TV series does animating on threes more often. Keyframes are about *movements*. Start of a throw, end of a throw etc. For that reason they obviously cannot be put in on a fixed framerate of 8 fps. Miyazaki keyframes for a run cycle http://cdn8.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Miyazaki-Running-4.jpg The characters obviously do not run at a fixed rate of two steps per second. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Feb 12, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2018 19:08
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:this is... either missing my point or completely, hilariously wrong, depending on what you mean by this Dude I'm a professional animator, I know what I'm talking about. Anime is done on 3s, meaning there's a new drawing every 3 frames. Therefore 8 frames per second. Frame through some of Mitsuo Iso's work on youtube and you'll see. Sometimes there are only 3 or 4 "keyframes" per second, depending on how much detail needs to be conveyed in the scene. The rest can either be considered breakdown drawings (look up what those are if you don't know) or straight inbetweens. Sometimes anime is done on 2s, if they have a higher budget, but for the most part you're going to get an average of 8-10 drawings per second. CG anime matches this, in that there's between 8 and 12 "drawings" per second. The main issue with CG anime is the rigs don't have the pliability of drawings. So they look stiffer, which leads to that jerky movement. There's also the issue of less art-direction of the shadows due to shader issues and how the renderer interprets the facing ratios, which can lead to the CG aspect being noticeable. Here is an example of a smooth animation using interpolation, and the same movement with frames cut out to give it the anime flavor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl-ZBNmAokI You'll notice if you frame through that the right example is on 3s. If it was on 2s or 1s they'd have to spend a lot more time polishing the arcs and giving the appendages overlap and follow-through to sell the weight. Animating on 3s cuts down on that necessity since our brains fill in a lot of the missing information. Honestly I think it looks fine aside from some janky shadows on the hand, which is an example of the renderer/shaders not being able to create aesthetically pleasing shadows. Metal Geir Skogul posted:Completely missed this 3D CG bullshit, though. It looks so weird and if that trailer is an example of a "good" studio, uh. Aw c'mon. That show has sequences like this, which I think are jaw-dropping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOrfhH77ynY Ccs fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 00:51
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:see, there's something I've noticed about literally all of this 3DCG anime made for TV: it's weirdly choppy IIRC one of the key notes they have in the GDC presentation was how everything was kept in stepped instead of tweened, for clarity.
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Feb 13, 2018 22:41
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Ccs posted:
Just finished this off Prime's stream service, it was really good animation! Here's some test footage showing off some of the hair and lightning effects https://youtu.be/Kb9YmmQG4iQ Edit: if you're interested it's listed as Land of the Lustrous Sinners Sandwich fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 23:40
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Speaking of Japanese CGI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08dHXfIprYE
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Feb 13, 2018 23:41
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Batman Ninja looks like a riot. Like an annoying anime fan I'm partial to the subtitled version, which matches the lip flaps (JOO-KAAA!). Plus I'm just not used to hearing an English Joker that's not Mark Hamill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mVTKEc-mu8 I love how they adapted all the character designs. Some of the animation looks a little stiff but I guess it had a quick turnaround. Now if only we could get a feature version of Chinese Batman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXhNUPk_CLc
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Feb 14, 2018 00:02
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The Joker is Buster Bluth
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Feb 14, 2018 00:08
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https://twitter.com/The_Shadow_Hog/status/963602486622908417 It was better than I was led to believe it'd be, though I can also see why it's not one of Pixar's best; it's not that imaginative, I don't think it does too much interesting with the "the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs didn't happen" concept (let alone to the degree that Zootopia thought through "humans didn't happen" for its setting), and it's a little light on plot, but it was still an enjoyable watch. The whole thing with Arlo's dad has, predictably, left me feeling a tad emotional (though, I swear to God, he was smiling when the river swept him up, which added a little silliness to the sudden cut to reveal, yeah, he died from that poo poo, which kind of detracted a bit from it). I wonder if I'll remember more about it than I do Brother Bear (where I only remember a few key beats, but that's about it - namely, three brothers, one dies from a bear, another avenges him but gets turned into a bear, he meets the mother's son and tries to head home while the third brother mistakes him for the mother and tries to kill him instead, brother-gone-bear eventually tells the son that he killed his mother, there's a falling out, forget when the make-up is but it happens before the climax, wherein the third brother nearly kills his brother-gone-bear but instead the brother-gone-bear turns back into a human, only to decide to turn back into a bear so he can look after the orphaned bear cub as atonement for his sins - and also there's comedy relief moose at some point in all of this). I really, really like the music for the firefly scene (the one they chose to use for the Blu-Ray menu). I can't say as it's helping my emotional state leaving said menu running on as I'm typing this, though. (I'm hardly a whimpering mess at the moment, but I do feel a tad empty inside...)
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Feb 14, 2018 05:22
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The setting of good dinosaur seemed so weird. Like it felt like such an empty world. Like they felt like 1700s settlers or something but with no indication they had come from any sort of civilization. There was "cowboys" but they didn't seem to be driving their cattle from anywhere or to anywhere and everyone else they ever met just sort of lived alone deep in the woods. Like it felt vaguely early colonial America but if instead of people coming from europe and settling America just a couple scattered families just eternally existed in a couple roles one family per role spread out over hundreds of miles all alone in the entire world. Like maybe there was supposed to be dinosaur boston to the east and dinosaur england in dinosaur europe but it never felt like it, it always felt like the movie introduced us to the entire planet and the entire planet was like 6 people in fairly meager and suffering conditions. I think this is a weird complaint about a movie but it just felt so empty and hopeless because of it. Like there was one slowly dying farm on earth run by one isolated family.
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Feb 14, 2018 05:38
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It felt like Myst.
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Feb 14, 2018 07:03
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The problem with The Good Dinosaur is they had several good movie ideas and instead of doing one, they instead kind of half assed all of them and stuck them together in one movie. It doesn't really work as a road movie like Finding Nemo does where you're going from one interesting location to the next. Instead it's like you're going from one type of movie to another and it doesn't work. I would've liked an entire dinosaur western with the t-rexes
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Feb 14, 2018 07:45
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So all in all we can tie Good Dinsoaur and A Bugs Life in the category of Mediocre pixar movies, because I hate Cars 2 with a passion.
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Feb 14, 2018 08:15
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No, Bugs Life rules. eat my butt all y'all who disagree
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Feb 14, 2018 08:16
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It's certainly better than the Good Dinosaur, that's for sure.
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Feb 14, 2018 08:21
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Macaluso posted:Instead it's like you're going from one type of movie to another and it doesn't work. Yeah, tone is all over the place. Like in one scene someone will fall down a cliff and bounce around like a ball, then some other scene sticks will tear into someone's flesh as they struggle to kill you and like everyone being so happy and cute but like there being a legit murder cult that is treated as serious and then a story about drowning someone in their own blood that is a joke. Someone mentioned the dad smiling as a flood washed him away then it being like "oh, wait, he's dead?". The movie never felt like it could have stakes because everything just randomly was harmless or dangerous with no real sense at any moment if tripping or falling meant death or injury or a wacky cartoon noise.
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Feb 14, 2018 14:35
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Saw Cars 3 the other night. I knew it wasn't going to be anything like it, but the extent to which the movie deviates from the tone of the initial teaser is still somehow surprising.
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Feb 14, 2018 16:50
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SirDrone posted:So all in all we can tie Good Dinsoaur and A Bugs Life in the category of Mediocre pixar movies, because I hate Cars 2 with a passion. You know, I've been thinking a lot about A Bugs Life, as I've been thinking a lot about Early Pixar and my relationship to it, and whether... I really like them very much at the end of the day. I've never seen The Good Dinosaur, but I've seen Bug's Life multiple times, and I have to ask- is there anything really to that movie beyond being a comedic riff on The Magnificent Seven/Seven Samurai? Where was the emotional center, what was the point? Obviously part of it was for Flick to learn a lesson about being truthful and owning up to his mistakes, but there was no real point in time when he did that; oh he suffered for his mistakes plenty, as most of the characters suffered (and mostly for comedic purposes; there is a real undercurrent of bleakness and spite in the movie's humor and use of violence), but there was no real "come to jesus" moment in which he was given a speech or an action to show how much he'd learned and what. Besides... there's the point that he wasn't really... well, wrong, at least at the beginning. All of his inventions worked and would have made things better if they'd been accepted, but he was ostracized for being a kook and an upstart, and the instigation of "the problem" was a genuine accident and not any kind of ambition on his part. It's only after he was exiled/set out on his journey that he "did wrong" in lying first to the troupe, and then to the colony when he got back, but like I said, that never really comes up again in either a lesson or changed behavior: Flick's lie is revealed, he is punished, he gets the sads, and is brought back around by the "pretend it's a seed" callback to teach him to believe in his inventions, which has nothing to do with honesty at all, so  It's morally confusing is what I mean, and is also tonally confusing, with the sense of humor I mentioned earlier and the inclusion of Hopper. I mean, for a story of this nature, you'd expect a bully or something, not the total despotic monster he was in the film, both doling out and receiving harsh, nightmarish fates. It's bleak and stark is what I mean, as I suppose are the westerns they wanted to invoke with such work, but not in anyway that serves the narrative, and as for anything more they wanted to do with it, there's just... nothing.That's the thing that strikes me about Pixar's body of work as a whole: it's well known that their creative process boils down to "What if thing... but with thing", but rewatching some of their movies, it's not completely clear that there is anything else involved beyond that, and sometimes it doesn't even get that far, only saying "Isn't thing cool?" for an hour and twenty minutes to two hours. I personally find that my most favorite movies, the ones I cared to revisit, are ones with a genuine emotional center behind them: UP, even though the sentiment is front-loaded; Monsters, Inc, even though the sentiment is severely back- loaded; and Finding Nemo and Wall-E, in which the emotions are placed front and center and thus make the movies all the stronger*. Cars never really had an emotional center I could get behind (or maybe I just never cared for Doc Hollywood all that much), and while Toy Story did... it was never one that I could latch onto, due to its weird specificity in its nostalgia, and thus they all pretty much leave me cold because it's all centered around toys, which I never had a lot of growing up and thus never had to leave behind or dispose of. The moments of genuine existential angst and fear due to the Ending of Things... well, they almost work for me, but they're always peripheral, ancillary to the action going on, and never are explored to my liking or go anywhere I genuinely don't expect. So I am unmoved... I did not cry, (Now, Wreck it Ralph and Coco? Those I cried at, and while I didn't cry at Moana, I liked it a great deal more than the entirety of the Toy Story franchise... make of that what you will.) *I suppose I should include the Incredibles here, as it is still the best Fantastic Four movie still ever made, but it suffers from similar thematic and tonal confusion, mostly due to its weird, part humanist part misanthropic politics, which somehow includes both the superhero ideal of helping people with some weird, proto-Randian idea of the Singular Man, i dunno, it's just weird.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:39
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resurgam40 posted:Cars never really had an emotional center I could get behind (or maybe I just never cared for Doc Hollywood all that much) Cars definitely felt like everyone was supposed to latch on the tragedy of route 66 and the death of the small town and the passing of the old ways for newer younger better things that would not learn from their past. But it felt like the whole movie was super built on the idea that everyone starting out collectively felt real sad about route 66 and that that was a touchstone for the audience already.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:49
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