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BrightWing posted:Generally you'll move around with the boss and keep hitting positionals unless you need to stack with the group for whatever reason. No, I mean what should the tank do in that case? I'm not sure if the melee dps will assume that I'm going to stay still or whether I should move to make sure the boss turns as little as possible.
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Feb 16, 2018 21:59
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vOv posted:No, I mean what should the tank do in that case? I'm not sure if the melee dps will assume that I'm going to stay still or whether I should move to make sure the boss turns as little as possible. Stay still unless your group is organized enough to optimize against your movement.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:04
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Can someone explain to me the purpose of a Provoke-Shirk? An OT kept doing it when I was MTing O7 the other day and all it seemed to do is make the boss spin.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:10
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Rosalind posted:Can someone explain to me the purpose of a Provoke-Shirk? An OT kept doing it when I was MTing O7 the other day and all it seemed to do is make the boss spin. You have 100% threat as MT. OT Provokes - He has 101% Threat. OT Shirks - You have 125% of your starting threat. He has 75% of your original threat. Ideally he does it during a cast bar or a magitek ray or some time when he won't rotate or mess up targeting. If your group is coordinated you can: You have 100%. He provokes - He has 100%. You shirk - He has 125% You provoke - You have 125% He shirks - You have 156% It's a way to burst you emnity really fast without needing threat combos or defensive stance. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 22:13
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Stay still unless your group is organized enough to optimize against your movement. This, I apologize, I did not fully understand your question. Tank stands still, melee deal.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:13
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Rosalind posted:Can someone explain to me the purpose of a Provoke-Shirk? An OT kept doing it when I was MTing O7 the other day and all it seemed to do is make the boss spin. Offtank provokes the boss, to copy your aggro level. He then takes that newly-inflated amount of threat and gives you a huge chunk of it, so you don't have to worry about it as much. Ideally they'd do it during cast bars when the boss won't spin around, but at least he cared.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:14
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Rosalind posted:Can someone explain to me the purpose of a Provoke-Shirk? An OT kept doing it when I was MTing O7 the other day and all it seemed to do is make the boss spin. Rainuwastaken posted:Offtank provokes the boss, to copy your aggro level. He then takes that newly-inflated amount of threat and gives you a huge chunk of it, so you don't have to worry about it as much. This. He was helping you just doing it at a poor time. For maximum circle shirking OT vokes, MT shirks then vokes, then OT shirks.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:15
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Thanks. It makes sense. I'm guessing it's something that's only really needed if the MT drops their tank stance? I mean I've been MTing as paladin for only a short time, but there's never been a time where I was worried about losing enmity when I was in Shield Oath (aside from like immediately after a tank swap or whatnot).
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Feb 16, 2018 22:19
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Every time i try something cute like that in random groups, to let the MT keep going in offensive stance or whatever, he immediately eats dirt and then my provoke is on cooldown and i can't pull the boss off the Medica 2 spamming WHM anymore.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:22
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Rosalind posted:Thanks. It makes sense. I'm guessing it's something that's only really needed if the MT drops their tank stance? I mean I've been MTing as paladin for only a short time, but there's never been a time where I was worried about losing enmity when I was in Shield Oath (aside from like immediately after a tank swap or whatnot). You shouldn't be in Shield Oath for very long against bosses or in trials. Ideally you should be in it as little as possible. You're leaving a huge amount of DPS on the table by doing so.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:22
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On the flip side, don't bother dropping shield oath against trash packs because your healer will absolutely hate you.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:24
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Rosalind posted:Thanks. It makes sense. I'm guessing it's something that's only really needed if the MT drops their tank stance? I mean I've been MTing as paladin for only a short time, but there's never been a time where I was worried about losing enmity when I was in Shield Oath (aside from like immediately after a tank swap or whatnot). I do like tank stance for trash packs though, because they actually really hurt and I figure cutting my damage by a little bit is worth the healer getting to drop a bucket of Holy on things without having a heart attack.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:24
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Rosalind posted:Thanks. It makes sense. I'm guessing it's something that's only really needed if the MT drops their tank stance? I mean I've been MTing as paladin for only a short time, but there's never been a time where I was worried about losing enmity when I was in Shield Oath (aside from like immediately after a tank swap or whatnot). Yeah, the ideal tank pull will involve literally 1 GCD while in tank stance. Maybe a full combo if you're being careful. If you're staying in shield oath emnity will never be a concern. Some will lambast you for staying in shield oath so that's definitely an avenue for personal optimization, but I'd rather see a respectful tank than an honest healer. My last o5s / o6s clears had a PLD in shield oath the whole time and the runs went well.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:29
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It took me a long time to build up the confidence to drop Grit even for dungeon bosses.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:31
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Rhjamiz posted:So I'm currently waffling between Ninja and Dragoon. I know Dragoon is a slow start but man, ninja just feels more fun. I assume that both are viable and I should just pick what is more enjoyable? Dragoon has the best glamour options of any melee dps job in the game. And they don't run like loving Naruto
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Feb 16, 2018 22:31
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Bolow posted:And they don't run like loving Naruto NIN run causes me physical pain, but I play a female midlander so like hell I'm ever moving anywhere without weapons drawn.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:32
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Yeah, the ideal tank pull will involve literally 1 GCD while in tank stance. Maybe a full combo if you're being careful. If you're staying in shield oath emnity will never be a concern. yea i find myself using shield oath as a cool down more these days for big hits and I don't have a real cool down available. Pop on shield oath and a shield block and im good to go.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:34
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Arist posted:It took me a long time to build up the confidence to drop Grit even for dungeon bosses. 
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Feb 16, 2018 22:40
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Arist posted:It took me a long time to build up the confidence to drop Grit even for dungeon bosses. It's me, I'm the Dark Knight that does two whole threat combos before dropping Grit, and there's still occasionally a MNK or BLM that nearly takes the boss away from me before it dies.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:44
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Rainuwastaken posted:It's me, I'm the Dark Knight that does two whole threat combos before dropping Grit, and there's still occasionally a MNK or BLM that nearly takes the boss away from me before it dies. Saaaaaaaaaaame
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Feb 16, 2018 22:45
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Bolow posted:Dragoon has the best glamour options of any melee dps job in the game. And they don't run like loving Naruto I play an au ra girl so I really want to level up NIN just for maximum loving anime. I'll probably do it after I finish WHM and SMN/SCH... but BRD is also so tempting... ugh. I'm interested in basically everything except MNK.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:48
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Rainuwastaken posted:It's me, I'm the Dark Knight that does two whole threat combos before dropping Grit, and there's still occasionally a MNK or BLM that nearly takes the boss away from me before it dies. They shouldn't, the ffxiv threat meter is pretty garbage and when your threat hits a million+ someone with 800k threat to your 1 million threat is going to look super close when in actuality it isn't. Now a days I only start to worry when someone is within 50k threat of me or so.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:48
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Two questions. First off, what do Skill Speed and Spell Speed do for DRKs and RDMs, who use a combination of magical and physical abilities? Second, I’ve seen people hyping Strength materia for tanks. What makes that so great when compared to other materia options? What else is good, and why?
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Feb 16, 2018 22:49
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Holyshoot posted:They shouldn't, the ffxiv threat meter is pretty garbage and when your threat hits a million+ someone with 800k threat to your 1 million threat is going to look super close when in actuality it isn't. Now a days I only start to worry when someone is within 50k threat of me or so. One of these days I'll get around to actually installing ACT but until then that one pixel on the aggro meter will continue to terrify me.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:50
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So turns out if you're being a self reliant crafter you only really need the scrip armor for ltw/alc, lets you make the ala mhigan armor that is better than the base scrip armor.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:52
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Darth Walrus posted:Two questions. First off, what do Skill Speed and Spell Speed do for DRKs and RDMs, who use a combination of magical and physical abilities? Second, I’ve seen people hyping Strength materia for tanks. What makes that so great when compared to other materia options? What else is good, and why? All of DRK's abilities are weaponskills or abilities, not spells. No idea about Skill Speed on RDM but, Spell Speed is the native stat you want least so no biggie. STR is the second largest DPS contribution, right next to weapon damage. Direct Hit is probably the next biggest improvement on tanks, followed by Crit. Warriors want Crit significantly over DH, so if your gear is shared go that way.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:55
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:All of DRK's abilities are weaponskills or abilities, not spells. https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Abyssal_Drain
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Feb 16, 2018 22:57
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:All of DRK's abilities are weaponskills or abilities, not spells. Right, and it’s DPS you want to be speccing as a tank rather than survivability? And why’s Spell Speed bad for RDMs?
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Feb 16, 2018 22:58
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Oh neat, it is a spell. I'm going to go on a limb and say spell speed does nothing. Darth Walrus posted:Right, and it’s DPS you want to be speccing as a tank rather than survivability? In short, yes. Your gear has VIT maxed out, so you can't increase that. Tenacity has a mitigation bonus, but it's minor and the best mitigation is a dead enemy. Also the passive mitigation you gain is so weak and so unnecessary most of the time, because your active buffs do most of the work. Nothing else you can meld will increase survivability. Spell Speed isn't bad per se, but you only ever cast one quick spell, followed by an instant cast spell. You're not gaining that cast time reduction on the spells that matter, aside from some level of GCD decrease. Crit, DH, and Det will affect all of your spells, and provide a bigger benefit. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 22:59
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Also: https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Unmend https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Grit
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Feb 16, 2018 23:00
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Darth Walrus posted:Right, and it’s DPS you want to be speccing as a tank rather than survivability? Tanks have enough survivability. I think technically Tenacity does both, but I have no idea to how much effect and definitely not a better call than Strength.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:01
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Oh hey, Unleash is also a spell! (I'm done)
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Feb 16, 2018 23:04
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Holyshoot posted:They shouldn't, the ffxiv threat meter is pretty garbage and when your threat hits a million+ someone with 800k threat to your 1 million threat is going to look super close when in actuality it isn't. Now a days I only start to worry when someone is within 50k threat of me or so. As a BLM who doesn't know what Lucid Dreaming is and will only press diversion during the pull , its very possible to pull threat. Ask any of my static's tanks.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:04
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I always assumed that Speed (of whatever variety) was always a good fallback investment. I mean, it lets you do more stuff (and react to new developments) in a shorter timeframe. That’s good news whatever your job.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:05
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I think it's bad for BRD too but I couldn't tell you why.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:05
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Do BLMs benefit from Spell Speed? Or does it only affect instant spells like the ones that make up most of Summoners’ arsenals?
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Feb 16, 2018 23:11
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You would end up clipping like a motherfucker if your skill speed is to high as a BRD, plus you kind of innately get some bit of a Skill Speed boost through Army's 16% haste with full stacks so it's unnecessary. I think skill speed also increase how much your dots tick for as well? Also no necessary though since you just want them to crit, the damage is purely supplementary.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:12
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Darth Walrus posted:I always assumed that Speed (of whatever variety) was always a good fallback investment. I mean, it lets you do more stuff (and react to new developments) in a shorter timeframe. That’s good news whatever your job. Speed has a couple drawbacks. It's tiered, meaning that improvements might not actually have any effect until you hit the next tier. The other stats might be like that too, so this might not be comparison worthy. The effects are less of an improvement than others (in optimal play.) You might get an extra cast every 50 GCDs, but that same budget of crit might offer more than 2% damage increase. GCD clipping (in optimal play) matters. Some jobs need to weave multiple oGCDs in between attacks, and if your speed is too high, the oGCDs will delay your GCD again, negating some of the benefit. Try pushing a full 3-mudra in a sub 2.0 GCD for example. This is all of course coming from a mathematically optimal perspective, with minimal latency concerns, and practical play has many exceptions. If you're too laggy to do 5 cleaves in an Inner Release, get more Skill Speed until you can. That will help more than getting Crit. It's never really bad, but from a theory standpoint the other stats can be better. Darth Walrus posted:Do BLMs benefit from Spell Speed? Or does it only affect instant spells like the ones that make up most of Summoners’ arsenals? Spell speed: A: Reduces the cast time of long cast spells (like BLM). B: Reduces the GCD of spells (like summoner instant casts) C: Increases DoT damage (like summoner DoTs).
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Feb 16, 2018 23:14
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Darth Walrus posted:Do BLMs benefit from Spell Speed? Or does it only affect instant spells like the ones that make up most of Summoners’ arsenals? Hell yes they do. Unless I'm wrong it's right under INT in stat importance. Instant spells are instant and I'm confused how speed would help that?
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Feb 16, 2018 23:15
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Darth Walrus posted:Do BLMs benefit from Spell Speed? Or does it only affect instant spells like the ones that make up most of Summoners’ arsenals? Considering last I checked BLMs were still the #1 choice to give an Arrow to (besides GL3 Monks for comedy purposes), they absolutely do.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:16
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