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SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

HOOLY BOOLY posted:

Earthly Star is the bestonly thing AST has going for it right now.

Doesn't even have that. Assize is better damage, not as good healing, restores mana, isn't as much of a pain in the rear end to use, doesn't cause retard tanks to run away from it, and can have a shorter cooldown if you hold lilies for it.

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A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Doesn't even have that. Assize is better damage, not as good healing, restores mana, isn't as much of a pain in the rear end to use, doesn't cause retard tanks to run away from it, and can have a shorter cooldown if you hold lilies for it.

I will continue to play AST for the glamor but drat they could use a little boost somewhere. Mp management first of all, second of all more damage?

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



I think AST right now is suffering from a twofold problem:
  • They're deliberately undertuned because they were balanced under the assumption of AoE Balance being so outrageously busted. Now that it's not outrageously busted, their numbers feel meager in comparison to everyone else.
  • They feel clunky as poo poo to play optimally. In the majority of cases, you have maybe two or three ideal RR + card setups that you want, and everything else is either passable or sucks. This leads to the card mechanic feeling less like the moment-to-moment decisionmaking of a card game and more the agonizing repetition of a slot machine as you wait and wait and wait for triple 7s. Losing one instant cast DoT and gaining three new oGCD abilities (one of which takes two oGCDs to use optimally!) means you clip constantly, even if you're doing your rotation perfectly.
What you end up with is a weird WHM/SCH hybrid that has none of the strengths of either party and, consequently, isn't very desirable. Even in 4-mans, SCH just feels flat out better to play because of the enormous amount of tools you have (Adlo, Excog, Lustrate, etc.) and the smoothness of your rotation compared to AST.

Vermain fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Feb 20, 2018

Rosalind
Apr 30, 2013

When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change.

WrightOfWay posted:

90% of the time when someone is doing horrendous damage it's not because of rotational issues (although that doesn't help) but because they just aren't pushing buttons at all.

A million times this. My friend was over the other day and I was watching him blm and it was excruciating. He's not ready to go with his next button to push after the GCD finishes, instead he like looks at the keyboard like an old-person-hunting-and-pecking typing-style, finds the button he's looking for, and presses it. Ok it's not always that bad for some stuff, but he must lose like at least half a second on each GCD when he does do it that way and he dies to so many mechanics because he's looking at his keyboard and not at the screen.

And then he was whining to me because he looked up a rotation guide and he said it's too hard to do it without pausing and it makes him feel like he's not a good player. I keep telling him just go to the FC house, stand in front of the dummy, and practice it until he has it down, but he just wants to moan about it instead.

A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich

Rosalind posted:

A million times this. My friend was over the other day and I was watching him blm and it was excruciating. He's not ready to go with his next button to push after the GCD finishes, instead he like looks at the keyboard like an old-person-hunting-and-pecking typing-style, finds the button he's looking for, and presses it. Ok it's not always that bad for some stuff, but he must lose like at least half a second on each GCD when he does do it that way and he dies to so many mechanics because he's looking at his keyboard and not at the screen.

And then he was whining to me because he looked up a rotation guide and he said it's too hard to do it without pausing and it makes him feel like he's not a good player. I keep telling him just go to the FC house, stand in front of the dummy, and practice it until he has it down, but he just wants to moan about it instead.

Pre 60 blm is so easy :psyduck:

MotU
Mar 6, 2007

It was like she was evicting walking garbage.
Pillbug
ok serious gameplay question:

do i glamour maid head/chest/legs and use heavily armored boots and gloves

OR

do i glamour maid head legs, and hands and use heavily armored chest and boots



also is there a broom glamour for lances

Maguoob
Dec 26, 2012

MotU posted:

ok serious gameplay question:

do i glamour maid head/chest/legs and use heavily armored boots and gloves

OR

do i glamour maid head legs, and hands and use heavily armored chest and boots



also is there a broom glamour for lances

No broom weapon glamour; the best you can do now is witch's broom mount or the broom minion.

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007

Speaking of hotbars, is there a recommended set up for Dragoons? I get the sinking feeling no set up is going to feel "convenient".

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


AST is in a super rough place balance wise right now because it's pretty well balanced on the high end (having both good card luck and a team that can take advantage of good card luck) but it's really bad on the low end. The problem is you can't really buff the low end without either massively buffing the high end through better damage potencies alone or harming the core identity of AST by shifting their potencies away from cards and into their damage spells.

itskage
Aug 26, 2003


Solo Wing Pixy posted:

You're going to have about 2.5 crossbars worth of buttons no matter what. This is roughly what I've come up with.



I changed a couple of things since then (aligning Swiftcast buttons and moving Fey Union to the right side, getting rid of the redundant Summon I, adding a second Chain Stratagem button to set 2) but the basic layout is the same. Having instaheals and faerie stuff on the L+R bar was a huge improvement over having heals in one set and damage stuff in another. Swapping bars to cast Adlo or something isn't a big deal, but having to do that to weave Lustrate or use Whispering Dawn while casting Broil is a pain in the rear end.

Don't forget about W bars.

Bolow
Feb 27, 2007

Rhjamiz posted:

Speaking of hotbars, is there a recommended set up for Dragoons? I get the sinking feeling no set up is going to feel "convenient".

It's not that bad really.



That's literally everything you could need with a redundant Dragon Sight macro in case the melee dps I get grouped with is a potato

Lily Catts
Oct 17, 2012

Show me the way to you
(Heavy Metal)

Bolow posted:

They're all 30 seconds long with an 80 second cooldown. When you clip the duration of the 3rd song by 10 seconds you're doing it so you can go back to the highest damaging song for whatever you're doing trash/boss and have Raging Strikes+Barrage sync'd with it. This also gives you a 10 second buffer if you for some reason use a second emp arrow in Army or your cooldowns get out of sync.

Hotbar wise I use this, you're gonna need basically 3 full bars to get everything you need



I really should swap <tt> Minne and Bloodletter but I can't be hosed to actually try changing that bit of muscle memory yet

drat, that's a lot of hotkeys. Using custom keybindings?

Tell me about melee DPS. The ones I'm interested in are: Ninja, Dragoon, Samurai (is RDM melee?). I used to be really into Dragoons pre-FFVII, but I like to weeb it up as well. I'd rate aesthetics and fun factor over raw DPS output.

jalapeno_dude
Apr 10, 2015
I am going to level a DRK to experience the job storyline which everyone says is awesome. I have never tanked in an MMO before so figure I'll level one of the other two up to 30 first to get the idea (go through the Hall of the Novice, etc.). Which of the class storylines is more interesting?

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!

Schneider Heim posted:

Tell me about melee DPS. The ones I'm interested in are: Ninja, Dragoon, Samurai (is RDM melee?). I used to be really into Dragoons pre-FFVII, but I like to weeb it up as well. I'd rate aesthetics and fun factor over raw DPS output.

RDM is more a caster that has a melee burst phase.

Waci
May 30, 2011

A boy and his dog.

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

People spamming Holy is why White Magic almost destroyed the world that one time.

Sickness must be purged.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



jalapeno_dude posted:

I am going to level a DRK to experience the job storyline which everyone says is awesome. I have never tanked in an MMO before so figure I'll level one of the other two up to 30 first to get the idea (go through the Hall of the Novice, etc.). Which of the class storylines is more interesting?

Probably GLA, though I'd personally recommend MRD as being the more fun of the two gameplay-wise if you're just taking it up to 30.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


jalapeno_dude posted:

I am going to level a DRK to experience the job storyline which everyone says is awesome. I have never tanked in an MMO before so figure I'll level one of the other two up to 30 first to get the idea (go through the Hall of the Novice, etc.). Which of the class storylines is more interesting?

Neither gladiator or marauder are all that good for class quests, but between the two of them marauder is clearly better. I can't remember a drat thing about the gladiator quests but at least I can recall the broad strokes of the marauder quests.

Bolow
Feb 27, 2007

Schneider Heim posted:

drat, that's a lot of hotkeys. Using custom keybindings?

Tell me about melee DPS. The ones I'm interested in are: Ninja, Dragoon, Samurai (is RDM melee?). I used to be really into Dragoons pre-FFVII, but I like to weeb it up as well. I'd rate aesthetics and fun factor over raw DPS output.

My only 70 Melee is Dragoon so I'll talk about that. The rotation is completely rigid, and never changes. The opener is extremely chaotic because you're weaving in something like 10 or 11 ogcd's with at least one in between every single main rotational ability until the last 3 GCD's. You can do some fun things like holding your first Life of the Dragon phase until Jump comes off CD for a 3rd time, and enter back to back Nastrond phases. You have a fair amount of raid utility and provide a piercing and crit debuff which is very helpful to MCH/BRD/RDM's.

And you probably have the best glamour options period of any melee dps in the game. The animations are very good as well


Main downsides are that the rotation is completely set in stone, like there will never be any variation in it ever.
Your rotation has a lot of ramp up time
It's loving miserable to play until you unlock full thrust
The Zodiac weapon is loving gorgeous and might possess you to go down the road of pain and misery that is that loving relic quest

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

"A moratorium has been placed upon all plot sales to indivuduals."

Huh. Didn't notice that before.

Solo Wing Pixy
Aug 5, 2008

It's an amanojaku!
And it hates you so much!

itskage posted:

Don't forget about W bars.

I'll forget about WXHBs if I want to, sir. :colbert:

(I started playing before they existed, and it took me long enough to adapt to the L+R extended bar.)

Also, AST could use either Stella or an equivalent crappy-but-cheap instacast damage spell, which would make weaving card stuff in a lot smoother. I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making it out to be though, its heals are fine and you can get around a lot of the card system's RNG with clever use of Minor Arcana and Sleeve Draw. It's definitely more dependent on your party than the other healers though.

Also, from my post before, here's my Actual SCH Hotbars. edit: for real this time

Solo Wing Pixy fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Feb 20, 2018

A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich

ImpAtom posted:

"A moratorium has been placed upon all plot sales to indivuduals."

Huh. Didn't notice that before.

Aren't they dropping that tonight?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

A. Beaverhausen posted:

Aren't they dropping that tonight?

I meant the typo, sorry! I just realized.

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.

Schneider Heim posted:

drat, that's a lot of hotkeys. Using custom keybindings?

Tell me about melee DPS. The ones I'm interested in are: Ninja, Dragoon, Samurai (is RDM melee?). I used to be really into Dragoons pre-FFVII, but I like to weeb it up as well. I'd rate aesthetics and fun factor over raw DPS output.

Ninja will make your fingers hate you if you try to play it on keyboard. It's drat near guaranteed for any raid spot because of the support skills it brings, but the difference between a good one and a bad one is night and day. It's very fast paced and has a cool aesthetic, because you're using ninja hand signals (mudras) to cause stuff to happen, like lightning dropping out of the sky. But on the other hand, if you have latency issues, it's incredibly easy to get hosed over by those same mudras. It has three melee combos, a personal buff that needs to be up 100% of the time, a debuff to put on the enemy, and in between all that you're using mudra combinations every 20 seconds. It's very active, and causes my hand to cramp up bad after playing it for an hour or so.

Dragoon is a lot simpler than ninja, and is just two melee combos and babysitting a buff that your combos naturally extend. In between those combos you jump all over the place performing sick stunts. Compared to Ninja it has a lot more of a relaxed pace. Also its job story ties very strongly into the first expansion.

Samurai I haven't gotten to max level yet, but it also has three combos. Each combo you perform also adds a WoW rogue style combo point, up to a max of 3, that you can spend with a finisher. Each combo also adds a buff to you (+damage, faster GCD) or a debuff on the enemy (+slashing damage taken). The finisher move also has different outcomes depending on how many combo points you've accumulated. It sounds a lot more complex than it is. In reality, it flows together nicely, and has really impressive animations.

Also the positionals on SAM only give you bonus job gauge points instead of bonus damage.

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013


Bolow posted:

They're all 30 seconds long with an 80 second cooldown. When you clip the duration of the 3rd song by 10 seconds you're doing it so you can go back to the highest damaging song for whatever you're doing trash/boss and have Raging Strikes+Barrage sync'd with it. This also gives you a 10 second buffer if you for some reason use a second emp arrow in Army or your cooldowns get out of sync.

Hotbar wise I use this, you're gonna need basically 3 full bars to get everything you need



I really should swap <tt> Minne and Bloodletter but I can't be hosed to actually try changing that bit of muscle memory yet

Put your mounts, sprint, LB and potions, things like that on a shared hotbar out of the way and you're fixing a decent amount of this clutter. Just give them the same bindings on this new bar.

You can probably get a macro to swap your potion on your bar when you swap jobs but might be worth keeping that on your bars if you cba with that.

itskage
Aug 26, 2003


Solo Wing Pixy posted:

I'll forget about WXHBs if I want to, sir. :colbert:

(I started playing before they existed, and it took me long enough to adapt to the L+R extended bar.)

Also, AST could use either Stella or an equivalent crappy-but-cheap instacast damage spell, which would make weaving card stuff in a lot smoother. I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making it out to be though, its heals are fine and you can get around a lot of the card system's RNG with clever use of Minor Arcana and Sleeve Draw. It's definitely more dependent on your party than the other healers though.

Also, from my post before, here's my Actual SCH Hotbars. edit: for real this time



Same but I forced myself to learn them as they can be quite useful.

I try to keep stuff off arrow buttons that you'd want to hit while moving, since moving with your left thumb means you can't use it to hit them. So like that miasma stands out to me.

Though you can curl your left index down or bring the right thumb over.

People say combat macros are bad but I macro shadow flare to drop on my target, or give the cursor if I have none. It's so much faster that trying to do it with the joysticks. Otherwise it's easier to move yourself to put the cursor on them.

Not trying to criticize you, just sharing my thoughts and approach.

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe
ast is great if you have a really good group (where layered raid support cooldowns dominate) and if you have a really bad group (noct is by far the best choice for solo healing if your other healer is an idiot). that's a pretty okay position to be in, balance wise. maybe it's not the best for your group--i'd actually say it's not the best for most groups--but it's fine.

for the record, i do think the succor buff for sch was a mistake.

the real ast problem is that it's clunky and unfun to play, because you have 37 oGCDs and you get to weave them all with...combust ii.

Sarrisan
Oct 9, 2012

Reiterpallasch posted:

ast is great if you have a really good group (where layered raid support cooldowns dominate) and if you have a really bad group (noct is by far the best choice for solo healing if your other healer is an idiot). that's a pretty okay position to be in, balance wise. maybe it's not the best for your group--i'd actually say it's not the best for most groups--but it's fine.

for the record, i do think the succor buff for sch was a mistake.

the real ast problem is that it's clunky and unfun to play, because you have 37 oGCDs and you get to weave them all with...combust ii.

why on earth ast did not get a ruin 2 equivalent i'll never understand. they need it at least as much as sch, probably more.

Griz
May 21, 2001


itskage posted:

People say combat macros are bad but I macro shadow flare to drop on my target, or give the cursor if I have none. It's so much faster that trying to do it with the joysticks. Otherwise it's easier to move yourself to put the cursor on them.

the ground-target abilities are the exception to the "don't macro combat skills" rule. manual placement is fiddly even with mouse/kb and everyone will laugh at you when you gently caress up and drop your bubble outside the arena.

if you want to be really fancy, make your macro do
/ac "Shadow Flare" <t>
/ac "Shadow Flare"
one click drops it on your target, or if you don't have a target it brings up the usual manual placement thing.

Xun
Apr 25, 2010

Griz posted:

the ground-target abilities are the exception to the "don't macro combat skills" rule. manual placement is fiddly even with mouse/kb and everyone will laugh at you when you gently caress up and drop your bubble outside the arena.

if you want to be really fancy, make your macro do
/ac "Shadow Flare" <t>
/ac "Shadow Flare"
one click drops it on your target, or if you don't have a target it brings up the usual manual placement thing.

WOAHHHHH

Lily Catts
Oct 17, 2012

Show me the way to you
(Heavy Metal)

DoubleNegative posted:

Ninja will make your fingers hate you if you try to play it on keyboard. It's drat near guaranteed for any raid spot because of the support skills it brings, but the difference between a good one and a bad one is night and day. It's very fast paced and has a cool aesthetic, because you're using ninja hand signals (mudras) to cause stuff to happen, like lightning dropping out of the sky. But on the other hand, if you have latency issues, it's incredibly easy to get hosed over by those same mudras. It has three melee combos, a personal buff that needs to be up 100% of the time, a debuff to put on the enemy, and in between all that you're using mudra combinations every 20 seconds. It's very active, and causes my hand to cramp up bad after playing it for an hour or so.

Dragoon is a lot simpler than ninja, and is just two melee combos and babysitting a buff that your combos naturally extend. In between those combos you jump all over the place performing sick stunts. Compared to Ninja it has a lot more of a relaxed pace. Also its job story ties very strongly into the first expansion.

Samurai I haven't gotten to max level yet, but it also has three combos. Each combo you perform also adds a WoW rogue style combo point, up to a max of 3, that you can spend with a finisher. Each combo also adds a buff to you (+damage, faster GCD) or a debuff on the enemy (+slashing damage taken). The finisher move also has different outcomes depending on how many combo points you've accumulated. It sounds a lot more complex than it is. In reality, it flows together nicely, and has really impressive animations.

Also the positionals on SAM only give you bonus job gauge points instead of bonus damage.

You had me at combo points!

I'll check them out sooner or later, thanks.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Yeah, I was loving AST for a long time but I think it may have been my old residual Cataclysm heal reflexes carrying me. :( Leveling SMN has been great fun though.

We got another SMN in one of my dungeon runs last night. They had Titan out for some reason? Kept him out for the whole dungeon. Is there some advantage to Nugget vs. Jalapeno Pepper?

A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich

Nessus posted:

Yeah, I was loving AST for a long time but I think it may have been my old residual Cataclysm heal reflexes carrying me. :( Leveling SMN has been great fun though.

We got another SMN in one of my dungeon runs last night. They had Titan out for some reason? Kept him out for the whole dungeon. Is there some advantage to Nugget vs. Jalapeno Pepper?

From what I know you never want Titan egi for your regular old dungeons

jalapeno_dude
Apr 10, 2015

Nessus posted:

Yeah, I was loving AST for a long time but I think it may have been my old residual Cataclysm heal reflexes carrying me. :( Leveling SMN has been great fun though.

We got another SMN in one of my dungeon runs last night. They had Titan out for some reason? Kept him out for the whole dungeon. Is there some advantage to Nugget vs. Jalapeno Pepper?

Please yell at a SMN doing that if you see it again. Titan is the tanking pet; it means they came from solo questing and forgot to change it out.

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


So how do you all do hotkey binds, like actual binds and not the skills? I play on keyboard and due to my hand placements I find it a bit difficult to reach farther past the numrow 5 and still be able to move around with WASDQE easily, and it feels not that great to only have access to half my bar, and no configuration of buttons I can think of is going to let me access the back half in a way that won't see me randomly activating things when I don't want them activated.

Evrart Claire
Jan 11, 2008

NachtSieger posted:

So how do you all do hotkey binds, like actual binds and not the skills? I play on keyboard and due to my hand placements I find it a bit difficult to reach farther past the numrow 5 and still be able to move around with WASDQE easily, and it feels not that great to only have access to half my bar, and no configuration of buttons I can think of is going to let me access the back half in a way that won't see me randomly activating things when I don't want them activated.

My hotbar going across is QERF12345ZXC, shift for the second bar, and anything not on the first two bars I just click (usually things with 2+min cds or long durations that I don't need to panic press).

Bolow
Feb 27, 2007

[5:01]You purchase the deed to plot 51, ward 5, Shirogane.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IJCFc_qkHw

EDIT:


That's a good loving view

Bolow fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Feb 20, 2018

Bell_
Sep 3, 2006

Tiny Baltimore
A billion light years away
A goon's posting the same thing
But he's already turned to dust
And the shitpost we read
Is a billion light-years old
A ghost just like the rest of us
Grats to those who found homes. I hope at some point they open up yet more wards for the rest of us.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Aaaand Balmung is dead again in less than an hour.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

For kb/m keybinds, I got an MMO mouse and use the keypad for rotational skills + mount + autorun. Haven't had a job yet that has more than 10 essential skills, which is convenient. This leaves loads of space on the kB for cooldowns. Ctrl+mouse keypad is for aoe, alt+keypad for more cooldowns and limit break.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I actually managed to get a house! I took a gamble on them not kicking you out of the wards, logged out in front of the place I wanted, and got it right away.

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