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I'd probably like the star trek mod more if it didn't make you play as one of the canon civs. I'm not that invested in star trek lore. Also warp drives only eww.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:20
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GlyphGryph posted:The first one, making contact with new civilizations, is absolutely one of the the fundamental premises. But I'm not talking about "making contact" I'm talking about "spotting." Telling mission control you saw some alien ships you couldn't hail before loving off to the next star on the list isn't Trek episode style "making contact." quote:As to the third, encountering serious risks to the ship and crew were very normal, its just that in game science ships cant do anything about them. Neither can solo corvettes scouting around, really.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:32
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GunnerJ posted:But I'm not talking about "making contact" I'm talking about "spotting." Telling mission control you saw some alien ships you couldn't hail before loving off to the next star on the list isn't Trek episode style "making contact." You don't remember that episode of Star Trek where the Enterprise stumbles upon an alien vessel, calls home and then keeps on flying to its destination while the POV for the rest of the episode is a group of linguists on Earth deciphering the ship's communications and then translating for the Federation President in a conference call?
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Feb 20, 2018 17:42
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The player may handle the talking but the ship is still the one who makes contact. I am okay with my doing the actual talking (although I get the sense that hasnt improved at all since I stopped playing either). Obviously your shio figured out some way to communicate with them enough to exchange numbers! Now if science ships were able to decode their transmissions automatically if they were the ones to meet them, or if first contact events were added to make it more interesting, that would be cool... But your exploration ships are still out there making first contact even if its lacking in depth and requires you to waste research time to see the results.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:52
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I cannot imagine anybody getting excited to meet empires in a stellaris game if they don't border them. Does anyone even read past the first five or so?
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Feb 20, 2018 18:01
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OwlFancier posted:I cannot imagine anybody getting excited to meet empires in a stellaris game if they don't border them. Only if they're Purifiers or something. Other than that I don't give a gently caress until I border them.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:04
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GlyphGryph posted:There was a genuinely good wincon system being thrown around in this thread a while back and wiz was part of the discussion, where you have multiple wincons that are more like "civilization goals/milestones" that you could accomplish and count as a "win" and comfortably stop playing with a sense of finality, even though it didnt make anyone else lose. Do you mean achievements? Yeah, I'd like more of those.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:04
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OwlFancier posted:I cannot imagine anybody getting excited to meet empires in a stellaris game if they don't border them. If I'm a xenophile then every new face is a delight!
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Feb 20, 2018 18:05
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It would be interesting to have a mechanic where you could "declare a wincon" by spending resources, but yeah, once domination is inevitable I usually just quit in any 4x game, heh.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:08
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Pigbuster posted:If I'm a xenophile then every new face is a delight! He who allows the xeno to live shares in the crime of it's existence. 
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Feb 20, 2018 18:08
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THE BAR posted:Do you mean achievements? Yeah, I'd like more of those. Like achievements, but you pick the one you want to pursue in advance when designing your species and you get the "you won! But you can keep playing if you want or whatever" message when you achieve them that you get now for "winning".
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Feb 20, 2018 18:12
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OwlFancier posted:I cannot imagine anybody getting excited to meet empires in a stellaris game if they don't border them. I just think we both have fundamentally different and incompatible things we enjoy when it comes to this game because this is super weird to me, that you cant even comprehend it. It also helps that I still play with an expanded version of the goon mod, when I do play, that has like a hundred species all with unique descriptions and stuff.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:14
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Gort posted:I do kind of wish there was an event or something when you jump into the Realm of The Face-Melting Bacteria Ships where you might have a bit of a chance of escaping rather than it just being "zap" and you've lost a science ship and a scientist. The binary outcomes for anomalies aren't great yeah. Especially when the binary outcomes are "full success, bonus resources" and "scientist and ship blows up.". I'd be cool if there was some more user interaction and dynamicness to it than literally just having the player click the "roll dice" button. That's a huge amount of work though - not every anomaly can be horizon signal sadly. But just seeing what the potential fail outcome would be before we click the roll dice button would be a big improvement. That might actually make people take the risk on anomalies with higher fail rate then 5% - if they know that a bad roll won't blow up their scientist.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:14
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GlyphGryph posted:Like achievements, but you pick the one you want to pursue in advance when designing your species and you get the "you won! But you can keep playing if you want or whatever" message when you achieve them that you get now for "winning". So the mission system they're putting in EU4 next patch, but you get a say in which mission tree you'll get? Sounds good to me - little boons if you follow your chosen path, but no one's stopping you from doing something else. I just like small presents like that, but I know what you mean.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:15
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GlyphGryph posted:I just think we both have fundamentally different and incompatible things we enjoy when it comes to this game because this is super weird to me, that you cant even comprehend it. Well if you're doing that then sure, I see the appeal. But the base game is profoundly uninteresting as far as empire fluff goes. They have interesting mechanical differences but those all come into play really only when they're bordering you. And I don't really have an issue with the lack of fluff because I don't really think it would be practical to implement, it's a strategy game not a talking simulator so I don't expect it to have interesting stuff to talk to empires about. Stuff like the horizon signal is fun but it's a... suboptimal allocation of resources, I guess I would say. If you're got finite development resources I wouldn't personally expend them on writing more things if they have other things they could be doing, because writing is fun once whereas the rest of the game can be fun many times. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 18:16
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A simple mod that starts everyone with +1 sensors ought to painlessly bring back the current corvette exploration opening? I won't miss it, but I usually only sent them out 6-8 jumps in any given direction, and then brought them home. Just roughly what I could reasonably interact with early game. Excited for this to be out!
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Feb 20, 2018 18:28
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OwlFancier posted:Stuff like the horizon signal is fun but it's a... suboptimal allocation of resources, I guess I would say. Playing stellaris for its amazing mechanics and strategic depth is a decidedly suboptimal use of resources. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 18:28
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GlyphGryph posted:Now if science ships were able to decode their transmissions automatically if they were the ones to meet them, or if first contact events were added to make it more interesting, that would be cool... Good news - I might be insane, but I seem to recall one of the Orcs vs Elves streams talking about how they'd really like to beef up first contact and make it more interesting, but that it'll have to wait for the future for now (probably in the diplomacy-focused patch/expansion).
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Feb 20, 2018 18:32
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GlyphGryph posted:The player may handle the talking but the ship is still the one who makes contact. I am okay with my doing the actual talking (although I get the sense that hasnt improved at all since I stopped playing either). Obviously your shio figured out some way to communicate with them enough to exchange numbers!   uh
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Feb 20, 2018 18:38
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GlyphGryph posted:Playing stellaris for its amazing mechanics and strategic depth is a decidedly suboptimal use of resources. As opposed to its... largely nonexistent story? Whether or not you like them, the majority of the content is clearly in the game mechanics. It's a space empire simulator, not the most complex one out there but at least on the level of something like civilization. If you don't like playing the game then I really don't get why you'd like it at all.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:49
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OwlFancier posted:As opposed to its... largely nonexistent story? I'm pursuing a PhD in the rhetoric of game design and development and even I think this argument between the two of you is dumb.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:50
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wiz release apocalypse now we're dying here
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Feb 20, 2018 18:52
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It's time to deploy a pacification shield on this thread.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:53
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Still lolling at the guy who melted down because a sale ended
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Feb 20, 2018 18:54
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Your reading comprehension is extra bad today. I hope it's on purpose.DatonKallandor posted:The binary outcomes for anomalies aren't great yeah. Especially when the binary outcomes are "full success, bonus resources" and "scientist and ship blows up.". I'd be cool if there was some more user interaction and dynamicness to it than literally just having the player click the "roll dice" button. That's a huge amount of work though - not every anomaly can be horizon signal sadly. But just seeing what the potential fail outcome would be before we click the roll dice button would be a big improvement. That might actually make people take the risk on anomalies with higher fail rate then 5% - if they know that a bad roll won't blow up their scientist. Then you can separate out the Success and Failure rate buffs into different scientist traits.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:56
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Sekenr posted:But have YOU played Airfix Dogfighter? i have it's pretty good oh gently caress me i just realised why the me 163 komet is in that game gently caress
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Feb 20, 2018 18:59
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The Chad Jihad posted:Still lolling at the guy who melted down because a sale ended I'm... also a little annoyed at that, though? Not nearly as much as they were but Paradox's usual release-week sales are timed to the new DLC's release, aren't they? Instead it was linked to the unrelated Steam sale that happened at a similar time, which I wasn't expecting. I was thinking about getting Synthetic Dawn but I guess not anymore.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:00
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Splicer posted:Your reading comprehension is extra bad today. I hope it's on purpose. Those are screenshots.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:01
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Pigbuster posted:I'm... also a little annoyed at that, though? Not nearly as much as they were but Paradox's usual release-week sales are timed to the new DLC's release, aren't they? Instead it was linked to the unrelated Steam sale that happened at a similar time, which I wasn't expecting. I was thinking about getting Synthetic Dawn but I guess not anymore. It's still on at paradox's own store, apparently.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:03
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Wiz has more than once expressed dissatisfaction with first contact. And it really is garbage. Potentially, you can have hostilities and skirmishes in the voice with empires that have hostile first contact, but AFAIK AIs dont use it and of course as soon as someone finishes the research your warriors disgruntledly turn off their weapons. IMO It really should have a bunch of event chains that can play out differently depending on tech levels, relative ethics, RNG, and choices made be the player... with lots of potential consequences. Ideally, stuff like demanding buffer zones, severe cultural misunderstandings, one-time events like slave abductions that could effect how relations play out between your species. Maybe your explorers committed a crime in their culture. Lots of stuff. There have to be dozens of star trek episodes about this concept. Probably the best concept the Endless series came up with was that of Cold War being a default state between empires, rather than Peace. A first contact dlc would probably have enough content if you combine first contact between empires with presapient/primitive civ stuff.... TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 19:04
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Wiz has more than once expressed dissatisfaction with first contact. And it really is garbage. Potentially, you can have hostilities and skirmishes in the voice with empires that have hostile first contact, but AFAIK AIs dont use it and of course as soon as someone finishes the research your warriors disgruntledly turn off their weapons. IMO It really should have a bunch of event chains that can play out differently depending on tech levels, relative ethics, RNG, and choices made be the player... with lots of potential consequences. Ideally, stuff like demanding buffer zones, severe cultural misunderstandings, wars, It's kinda weird that if your ship sees another ship for a split second you can then somehow establish communications with an empire on the opposite end of the galaxy by learning their language 5 months later. It'd be neat to see some kind of ambient "communications" spread that works like the opposite of sensors, and so long as none of your vessels are in range to pick them up you can't make contact.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:08
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OwlFancier posted:It's still on at paradox's own store, apparently.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:09
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Gyrotica posted:I'm pursuing a PhD in the rhetoric of game design and development and even I think this argument between the two of you is dumb. Its true, it is a very suboptimal allocation of our respective resources
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Feb 20, 2018 19:11
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Aurora doesn't have great AI but i do like how it handles first contact and encounters with aliens from a "we know nothing about this society, if it even is that, and how they behave/communicate/work as a society" There's a great moment in the Stellaris trailer about how the alien race built a colony ship that was mistaken and shot down by a vastly superior human fleet. As it is that just can't happen in Stellaris - but in Aurora it could, because you know nothing about that ship. And when a huge unknown ship appears and heads towards your planets, pulling a trigger becomes a much easier decision to take. I'd love to see aliens be more, well, alien, up front. Are you sure this is a science ship? Or a corvette? or what is it? As great as the new border changes are, I wonder if that isn't a step away from that (i'm not sure this is a criticism)
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Feb 20, 2018 19:11
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shas posted:Aurora doesn't have great AI but i do like how it handles first contact and encounters with aliens from a "we know nothing about this society, if it even is that, and how they behave/communicate/work as a society" I don't believe that there is an aesthetically sensible way of obfuscating ship classes. If you know what the Avian colony ship looks like you know what it looks like.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:14
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shas posted:Aurora doesn't have great AI but i do like how it handles first contact and encounters with aliens from a "we know nothing about this society, if it even is that, and how they behave/communicate/work as a society" Aurora's system is basically a lightly-ripped version of Starfire's which could have other results as well. There's certainly worse ways to do it.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:15
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turn off the TV posted:I don't believe that there is an aesthetically sensible way of obfuscating ship classes. If you know what the Avian colony ship looks like you know what it looks like. You could have a generic "unknown ship" model. Possibly in a variety of size classes though that's likely to give away what kind of ship it is given that in Stellaris you don't deploy single cruisers. Which is less so in Aurora with its freeform design.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:17
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OwlFancier posted:You could have a generic "unknown ship" model. Possibly in a variety of size classes though that's likely to give away what kind of ship it is given that in Stellaris you don't deploy single cruisers. IIRC some races have pretty distinct civilian ship models so a colony ship dramatically changing shape would look really odd. Like one has a giant window on the top with a huge park in it or something.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:20
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turn off the TV posted:IIRC some races have pretty distinct civilian ship models so a colony ship dramatically changing shape would look really odd. Like one has a giant window on the top with a huge park in it or something. Well it's only going to do it once, and arguably the whole concept of putting a giant glass top on your spaceship is stupid but it looks interesting so it's done. You probably also wouldn't realistically build streamlined spaceships either, and they're not bigger than planets. There's going to be a degree of mechanical and visual separation whatever you do and having a model or sprite to indicate "we don't know what this is exactly" seems fine to me for communicating the mechanics to the player in a visual way.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:24
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I am jacked to the tits for this expansion For you sniveling crybabies whining about exploration changes, I'm sure there will be a patch within a day or two changing a 0 to a 1 allowing corvettes to system hop again. I bet you probably forgot that you have to traverse a system anyways to get out the other side, so it will never be the same as it was either way. Communication with alien empires is fine, i don't even understand how that was brought up or what kind of goons would nut themselves arguing over how communication should be some longer and arduous process. If we're going to sperg over feature adds, let's talk about win conditions. An unlocked tech Galaxy Wonder that takes eleventy billion materials and credits that does something special when the switch is flipped? There could be different versions based on your core idealism at the end of the game. Xeno (scum) Lover? How about your machine switch turns all your planets into Gaia worlds. Since that's not really a meaningful thing at the end of the game, it also makes it so your next start with that same race in a new game starts with a Gaia world. Your precursor story would be about how your tentacle loving ancestors flipped some switch and this gaia planet survived the heat death of that universe. Each major idealism would have a pool of effects available, some shared, some not. When you push the button, it either gives you something awesome for the next game, does a cool effect like nuke every other planet outside of your borders, or does something special. Like tear open a rift of some super crisis entity that you have to beat for a new achievement. Except this super crisis entity is hard as gently caress and doesn't get dumbed down based on difficulty level and either wipes you out (you still get a "win" for flipping the switch) or you kill it and that race gets a super unique ship or planet or tech or something for all future playthroughs. The idea of something like this being there is a point to pushing through the last grind to get total victory. Rather than looking at your game and going "oh, gently caress, I don't want to waste hours taking over 100 more planets just to win a domination victory", put your 3k minerals per month into some Galaxy Wonder that has to be built a specific way or design based on what type you're making and win that way for some cool rewards.
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Feb 20, 2018 19:38
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