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Baron Porkface posted:Am I reading The last quest card of Dunland trap correctly that there are a minimum of TWENTY TURNS in a 4 player game? Maximum, since it puts the boss in play and his forced effect removes time counters.
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Feb 18, 2018 14:31
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They're bringing Shadows back to AGoT 2e. Yay. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/2/21/the-shadow-city/
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Feb 21, 2018 16:52
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:They're bringing Shadows back to AGoT 2e. Yay. The problem I have with this mechanic, is that they never allow you to bluff with cards without the keyword and never print quite enough good cards to make it a mystery what you're playing. Be it called Morph, Ninjitsu, or Deep Strike; the mechanic has always kind of sucked because they never wanted to fully commit to the bluff aspect of it. So all it really does is become a more complicated "coming into play" effect for certain cards. I can understand why they didn't go all the way with Morph or even Ninjitsu, but certainly we could have learned from those mistakes and tried to improve. Ugh. This actually reminded me of Spycraft which went too far in the opposite direction. It was still a neat CCG but that game relied too much on having to play facedown cards. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 17:09
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Drone posted:It's really mostly about the IP. LOTR interests the people I want to play with, while Lovecraft doesn't. Who doesn't love a theme where all the black characters are magical with poor book skills? (on second thought, LotR probably isn't the best contrast to this)
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Feb 21, 2018 19:00
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PaybackJack posted:The problem I have with this mechanic, is that they never allow you to bluff with cards without the keyword and never print quite enough good cards to make it a mystery what you're playing. Be it called Morph, Ninjitsu, or Deep Strike; the mechanic has always kind of sucked because they never wanted to fully commit to the bluff aspect of it. So all it really does is become a more complicated "coming into play" effect for certain cards. I can understand why they didn't go all the way with Morph or even Ninjitsu, but certainly we could have learned from those mistakes and tried to improve. Ugh. Ninjitsu had some really stellar cards associated with it, and the threat of them coming into play was some tension, but Kamigawa was also a pretty eh block overall. Morph was PHENOMENAL in limited, which I guess doesn't really help GoT, but it was a great mechanic there and made every card with Morph baseline "useable."
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Feb 21, 2018 19:10
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GrandpaPants posted:Ninjitsu had some really stellar cards associated with it, and the threat of them coming into play was some tension, but Kamigawa was also a pretty eh block overall. Morph was PHENOMENAL in limited, which I guess doesn't really help GoT, but it was a great mechanic there and made every card with Morph baseline "useable." Ninjutsu was the L5R version of Morph and it was pretty awful. You're right that Morph was good in Limited, but that's because the options of what card it was were huge. In constructed though it was hardly ever a real mystery. Are they playing Black? Ok it's a grinning demon. Are they playing blue? It's probably the counter spell guy. Since constructed is pretty much all aGoT2e is, there better be a decent amount of viable neutral Shadow cards to make it worthwhile.
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Feb 22, 2018 04:55
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A Horse Named Mandy posted:Who doesn't love a theme where all the black characters are magical with poor book skills? (on second thought, LotR probably isn't the best contrast to this) Lovecraft was super racist but there's three black investigators so far and that matches one of them. Plus being magical is something most characters have. So FFG aren't exactly screwing the pooch here.
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Feb 22, 2018 11:18
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Thirsty Dog posted:Lovecraft was super racist but there's three black investigators so far and that matches one of them. Plus being magical is something most characters have. So FFG aren't exactly screwing the pooch here. I'd be more concerned that there are three black investigators and two of them are jazz musicians while the third is literally an African witch doctor.
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Feb 22, 2018 12:22
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Jedit posted:I'd be more concerned that there are three black investigators and two of them are jazz musicians while the third is literally an African witch doctor. Hit the nail on the head. I love the Arkham Horror LCG, but how FFG can continue to gently caress up representation in their games when they also have Netrunner around just boggles the mind.
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Feb 22, 2018 16:23
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The jazz musicians and witch doctor are "strong ethnic characters", you see. https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/39286/icv2-interview-asmodee-execs-diversity-hobby-games quote:You have a huge portfolio. What would be an example of a game that has close to even, or even majority female gender mix? Then in the very next question, when asked about the themes of Conan they deflect it by saying it isn't for everyone, and it's accurate to the source material!
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Feb 22, 2018 18:20
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Jedit posted:I'd be more concerned that there are three black investigators and two of them are jazz musicians while the third is literally an African witch doctor. Sure, not arguing against that, though have black singers and musicians in a 30's game might be a cliche but I'm far from convinced it's racist (much safer ground with the shaman obviously). But hey, doesn't make the original statement any more accurate.
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Feb 22, 2018 18:43
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:how FFG can continue to gently caress up representation in their games when they also have Netrunner around just boggles the mind. IIRC the Arkham games (both versions of the Arkham boardgame, Eldritch Horror and Arkham LCG, and probably a few more I don't know about) all share the same investigators, so they are kinda stuck with the ones they already have. Of course, FFG could have been better about it in the 2005 reprint, ignoring the investigators in the 1987 version to make less stereotypical ones and it wouldn't be a problem now.
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Feb 22, 2018 18:56
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That's your privilege speaking posted:Petersen: I believe that we have to be careful when trying to contrive something that's not going to be authentic, such as altering a character or fictional situation to conform to some unwritten rule of inclusion that mandates representing every sex, race, etc. This introduces some ancillary motive rather than actually telling a story and providing a good game. Yes, instead you have to conform to some unwritten rules of authenticity in your game about magic spells, cosmic horrors, and Things That Are Not Actually Real. poo poo, I don't know if I could handle it if they didn't portray Ythians the exact way real historians and anthropologists described them. Hmm. Thirsty Dog posted:Sure, not arguing against that, though have black singers and musicians in a 30's game might be a cliche but I'm far from convinced it's racist (much safer ground with the shaman obviously). But hey, doesn't make the original statement any more accurate. It's more about diversity and representation, as all three characters hover dangerously close to stereotypical depictions of black folks of the time period (and today, even). The two (I assume) American black characters are both jazz musicians, and the one African black character is a straight-up "exotic" tribal shaman. All three are Mystic characters. They all fall into much the same role, to the point where, for the jazz characters at least, if you took away their names and character designs, they would be difficult to tell apart. Compare that to the white folks across the board--they fit into all sorts of societal roles, some "authentic" and some just made-up fantasy stuff, and across all five character classes. It's a subtler form of racism, but's definitely racist. Fat Samurai posted:IIRC the Arkham games (both versions of the Arkham boardgame, Eldritch Horror and Arkham LCG, and probably a few more I don't know about) all share the same investigators, so they are kinda stuck with the ones they already have. Of course, FFG could have been better about it in the 2005 reprint, ignoring the investigators in the 1987 version to make less stereotypical ones and it wouldn't be a problem now. I appreciate that they're sticking to a shared universe of sorts, especially since they do have some really fun and interesting characters, but they've already proven they don't mind creating brand new investigators. Sefina Rousseau made her first appearance in the LCG. They could definitely do better, and Netrunner is proof positive that they have it in them. Why they won't bring more of that to their moderately historical fantasy is just weird.
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Feb 22, 2018 20:56
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Fat Samurai posted:IIRC the Arkham games (both versions of the Arkham boardgame, Eldritch Horror and Arkham LCG, and probably a few more I don't know about) all share the same investigators, so they are kinda stuck with the ones they already have. Of course, FFG could have been better about it in the 2005 reprint, ignoring the investigators in the 1987 version to make less stereotypical ones and it wouldn't be a problem now. Why are they stuck? they can do whatever the hell they want with their games and the Cthulhu license is free domain anyways. There is zero reason why they couldn't make new characters.
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Feb 22, 2018 22:53
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Bottom Liner posted:Why are they stuck? they can do whatever the hell they want with their games and the Cthulhu license is free domain anyways. There is zero reason why they couldn't make new characters. But we already paid for the art 10 years ago!
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Feb 22, 2018 22:57
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Y'all can beat a joke to death. The source material is problematic, and credit to FFG for leaving a lot of those elements out. I wasn't aware of the third black investigator with a book skill over 2, but still, making them all mystics was a design choice that is... how you say... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF2ayWcJfxo
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Feb 22, 2018 23:04
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Bottom Liner posted:Why are they stuck? they can do whatever the hell they want with their games and the Cthulhu license is free domain anyways. There is zero reason why they couldn't make new characters. Yeah, I’m not arguing it’s a good reason, just a possible explanation why they don’t change investigators. Didn’t know about Rousseau, though.
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Feb 22, 2018 23:34
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A Horse Named Mandy posted:Y'all can beat a joke to death. The source material is problematic, and credit to FFG for leaving a lot of those elements out. I wasn't aware of the third black investigator with a book skill over 2, but still, making them all mystics was a design choice that is... how you say... Two of the three have a book skill over 2. It goes 2 - 3 - 4. It's a made up criticism. Totally on board with the idea that they should move away from stereotypes, though part of me thinks that they thought some of the roles were a no go area (a black drifter, for example). There's no excuse for the shaman.
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Feb 23, 2018 09:40
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Thirsty Dog posted:Two of the three have a book skill over 2. It goes 2 - 3 - 4. It's a made up criticism. Mostly because she's a bit crap, though. And I think Akachi first appeared in the same set as the sole Chinese investigator, who is of course the Martial Artist. The main question is why they didn't use ethnic characters for traditional working roles. There's no reason why Zoey the Chef couldn't be black, for example.
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Feb 23, 2018 10:35
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Now let's talk about how all criminals in Arkham, Massachusetts are Irish.
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Feb 23, 2018 10:50
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There's one Irish ex con and the other criminal cards are mostly mob types, no?
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Feb 23, 2018 11:27
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Yes, with all organized crime in Arkham across the Arkham Files franchise being connected to a distinctly Irish gang. Danny O'Bannion, Clover Club et al.
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Feb 23, 2018 11:41
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Is any of that present in the card game?
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Feb 23, 2018 12:39
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Thirsty Dog posted:Is any of that present in the card game? First Deluxe Expansion has a Clover Club mission that has O'Bannion in it. Lichtenstein posted:Yes, with all organized crime in Arkham across the Arkham Files franchise being connected to a distinctly Irish gang. Yeah, surprisingly the Italian ones are freelance. like Leo di Luca or Joey the Rat. Skids is the exception. Hired Muscle people seem oriental-ish?
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Feb 23, 2018 12:54
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Isn't there some Guardian black girl coming? A bunch of Guardian cards feature some explorer type, so it's likely we'll see her as soon as the upcoming cycle.Thirsty Dog posted:Is any of that present in the card game? Yes, in the Dunwich cycle scenarios. I'm also almost sure some other Irish mobster has been referenced on Rogue cards, but I don't remember which ones off the top of my head. Jedit posted:The main question is why they didn't use ethnic characters for traditional working roles. There's no reason why Zoey the Chef couldn't be black, for example. Does Minh count?
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Feb 23, 2018 13:02
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Jedit posted:Mostly because she's a bit crap, though. And I think Akachi first appeared in the same set as the sole Chinese investigator, who is of course the Martial Artist. Wait how is Minh a martial artist? She's a Seeker and her tag line is "The Secretary". Also she's Vietnamese IIRC. Also Akachi is strong mechanically, imo. Background is problematic as gently caress though. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 13:07
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Lichtenstein posted:Does Minh count? Women having only "unimportant" and/or "support" roles (or 85% of them having more Sanity than Health) is another problem. One of the reasons I like Zoey is that "berserker murderer" isn't a usual role for women in the franchise Orange Devil posted:Wait how is Minh a martial artist? Fat Samurai fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 13:15
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Orange Devil posted:Wait how is Minh a martial artist? quote:Also Akachi is strong mechanically, imo. Background is problematic as gently caress though. I have the feeling like it was some misguided attempt at doing something inclusive. Like someone was slapping together a new spellcaster for the board game and then someone came into the room and said "hey, half of all magic in this game is voodoo, we need some other gimmick" and then someone went "hey, wouldn't it be cool to do some OG African folklore instead, get outside the US and poo poo" and there was noone else to stop them.
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Feb 23, 2018 13:15
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Orange Devil posted:Wait how is Minh a martial artist? She's a Seeker and her tag line is "The Secretary". Also she's Vietnamese IIRC. I'm not talking about Minh. I'm talking about the kung fu chick who can focus Sanity and Stamina.
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Feb 23, 2018 13:16
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Fat Samurai posted:Women having only "unimportant" and/or "support" roles (or 85% of them having more Sanity than Health) is another problem. One of the reasons I like Zoey is that "berserker murderer" isn't a usual role for women in the franchise Are you talking franchise or LCG? Because I see a 50:50 split with regards to the sanity.
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Feb 23, 2018 13:20
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Jedit posted:I'm not talking about Minh. I'm talking about the kung fu chick who can focus Sanity and Stamina. Oh, I see. I'm not familiar with the other games. They should definitely take a page from netrunner for the investigators in the AH LCG and "well this dumb character already exists somewhere else" is not an excuse to introduce a dumb character. That said, do keep in mind that Netrunner introduces runners at a faster pace than AH has chosen to do (9 per cycle vs 5/6 per cycle total) and is much deeper into its lifespan. So while having all 3 of the first released black characters be Mystics isn't very smart, I would expect the pool of designed investigators to look a lot better in terms of diversity. Hope they don't prove me wrong. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 13:21
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Lichtenstein posted:Are you talking franchise or LCG? Because I see a 50:50 split with regards to the sanity. Franchise wrt the Sanity thing, I don’t remember the values in the LCG.. But in the LCG the roles are still clearly separated between though men (police, criminal) and weak, unimportant women (librarian, orphan, waitress), at least in the base box.
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Feb 23, 2018 13:35
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Fat Samurai posted:But in the LCG the roles are still clearly separated between though men (police, criminal) and weak, unimportant women (librarian, orphan, waitress), at least in the base box. Weak, unimportant women: gun-toting millionaire, Amazon explorer, world-famous actress.
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Feb 23, 2018 13:41
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Assuming they keep recycling the Eldritch Horror investigator art (and why wouldn't they?) we know what we're gonna get for the foreseeable. Out of the 40 or so remaining characters, it looks like 5 are POC. The gender split is like 30m/25f with fairly broad careers either side. Spoilers for potential class info I guess, if you play EH these aren't unusual. Lily Chen (martial artist, probably guardian) Luke Robinson (the dreamer, probably mystic) Vincent Lee (doctor, seeker?) Rita Young (athlete, guardian?) Daniela Reyes (mechanic, guardian?) Of note, the last two are from the two most recent expansions (2017-2018) and at least one of them was apparently newly invented (aka not from the Arkham board game). The farmhand and butler are white, the gangster's Irish.
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Feb 23, 2018 15:20
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Lichtenstein posted:Weak, unimportant women: gun-toting millionaire, Amazon explorer, world-famous actress. The first one's tagline is literally "an amateur" or "a layman", and her power is "have some more of daddy's money" (and no, this does not make her Batman). Ursula Downs has the worst combat stat in the entire game, and the other two are average. The rest of the women are a secretary, an urchin, a waitress, a cook, a witch and a painter, and again only one is a "punchy" character. No lawyers, no doctors, no cops, no captains of industry... Meanwhile, on the guy's side we have a fed, a con, a soldier, a gravedigger... rough and tumble archetypes with above average strength and whose powers deal with defeating monsters. I mean, it's not "women get +1 WIS, men get +1 STR", but it's close.
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Feb 23, 2018 15:27
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Fat Samurai posted:I mean, it's not "women get +1 WIS, men get +1 STR", but it's close. Heh - you just reminded me that in the roguelike game Ancient Domains of Mystery, men get +1 Strength and women get +1 Dexterity. This means men deal more damage in combat with every weapon... except whips, where women get the same edge. (It's actually a fair balance otherwise; the Strength lets men carry slightly more without incurring to-hit penalties, but the Dexterity makes women more likely to hit in the first place so unless you plan to be burdened women are more effective overall.)
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Feb 23, 2018 15:33
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Fat Samurai posted:The first one's tagline is literally "an amateur" or "a layman", and her power is "have some more of daddy's money" (and no, this does not make her Batman). Ursula Downs has the worst combat stat in the entire game, and the other two are average. What would be a great 1920's archetype that would work as a 'strong' woman?
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Feb 23, 2018 15:52
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adhuin posted:What would be a great 1920's archetype that would work as a 'strong' woman? Maybe an Amelia Earhart pastiche? Gertrude Ederle would probably be a bit out there but you could recast her as some other kind of Olympian. You could certainly have some kind of bootlegger, or do a speakeasy owner and base her on Patricia Arquette's character from Boardwalk Empire. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 16:20
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PaybackJack posted:Maybe an Amelia Earhart pastiche? Gertrude Ederle would probably be a bit out there but you could recast her as some other kind of Olympian. On the subject of Patricias, the Spy is a woman.
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Feb 23, 2018 16:48
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adhuin posted:What would be a great 1920's archetype that would work as a 'strong' woman? Whatever was killing eldritch abominations at the time. You know, because it would break immersion otherwise..
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Feb 23, 2018 17:10
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