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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:Zod is absolutely intent on conversion, in this case Earth's environment is a metaphor for Western culture. “This is a struggle between two of the largest cultures on Earth, and it is in the shadow of catastrophic climate conditions.” Who said it? BravestOfTheLamps posted:Zod wants to convert Earth's environment to Kryptonian... and Islamic terrorists want to convert the world to Islam! Imagine applying this to, say, the Martians in the War of the Worlds. Totally nonsensical. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 25, 2018 |
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Feb 25, 2018 21:29
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*Man telepathically probed on surgical table* "This is like radicalization of Islamic youth"
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Feb 25, 2018 21:32
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The sci-fi "creeping Sharia" stuff is entirely from the perspective of deep end rightwing paranoia.
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Feb 25, 2018 21:40
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:lol Hey that last part reminded me about how the army guy took the space terrorists to space Guantanamo!  But hey guys if I am that far off the mark here I will take your word for it. I will be the first to admit I suck at critical analysis, it wasn't something I ever really thought about until reading this thread. I also want to clarify that I do not view Islam/muslim people that way, I was contemplating whether the film could have been created using that type of outlook.
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Feb 25, 2018 21:56
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:I also want to clarify that I do not view Islam/muslim people that way, I was contemplating whether the film could have been created using that type of outlook. You're not being accused of that, but one basic tell that it's not Islamaphobia but Fascism are how Faora and Kryptonian scientist guy were cast. They have German accents, and Faora is dropping extremely unsubtle dialogue about how having morality is worse than not having morality. The scientist taking blood samples from Clark is some Megele/Angel of Death poo poo.
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Feb 25, 2018 22:19
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UmOk posted:Mark Millars Ultimates 1 and 2 are the best Avengers stories. I don't really like any of his other stuff but those are good. Jack Kirby actually served in the military, so. I'd think he'd have his finger on the pulse of a soldier from that time period than Millar, to be honest. That's also ignoring the political statement that was being made with the character and by Kirby and Lee as Jewish writers, which kind of trumps the issue of "realism".
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Feb 25, 2018 22:35
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I used to think that Ultimates 1 and 2 were good but I think they've aged incredibly poorly Like, "what if Captain America....but bad" is so awful in retrospect that I'm a bit embarrassed that I ever liked it
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Feb 25, 2018 22:40
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the ultimates 2 is one of the most execrable things i've ever read
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Feb 25, 2018 22:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Zod wants to convert Earth's environment to Kryptonian... Just to build on this bit, and discuss one of Black Panther's many misfires, is that the Wakandans are on the fast track to Krypton complete with slowly hollowing out their own land and clinging to a an archaic science-infused caste system. WB chickening out on the implications of MoS/BvS with Justice League and Disney/Marvel now - what - sextupling down on their centrist crap with BP led me to tap out of big two superhero films moving forward.
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Feb 25, 2018 23:11
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Punch Drunk Drewsky posted:Just to build on this bit, and discuss one of Black Panther's many misfires, is that the Wakandans are on the fast track to Krypton complete with slowly hollowing out their own land and clinging to a an archaic science-infused caste system. WB chickening out on the implications of MoS/BvS with Justice League and Disney/Marvel now - what - sextupling down on their centrist crap with BP led me to tap out of big two superhero films moving forward. The vibranium mound is a single mountain.
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Feb 25, 2018 23:37
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Nodosaur posted:The vibranium mound is a single mountain. Setting aside what happens to land when you hollow it out in any volume, this still raises the question of "what do they do when it's tapped out?" Which MoS answered and BP is firmly on the track of.
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Feb 25, 2018 23:40
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If there were environmental risk to Wakanda's operations, the movie would have portrayed the nation as a spoiled industrialist dystopia. And no environmentalist or naturalist worth taking seriously actually advocates that stopping the use or collection of natural resources entirely. The movie doesn't focus on the vibranium mining process at all beyond as a set piece and a plot device for the origin of their technology, but the design of Wakanda heavily implies resource collection with mindfulness for the surrounding environment, safety, and sustainability.
Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Feb 25, 2018 |
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Feb 25, 2018 23:48
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when i think mindfulness for the surrounding environment i think a giant meteor of space metal that's hollowed out to the point where a train network is needed to get around it
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Feb 26, 2018 00:43
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Nodosaur posted:If there were environmental risk to Wakanda's operations, the movie would have portrayed the nation as a spoiled industrialist dystopia. And no environmentalist or naturalist worth taking seriously actually advocates that stopping the use or collection of natural resources entirely. The movie doesn't focus on the vibranium mining process at all beyond as a set piece and a plot device for the origin of their technology, but the design of Wakanda heavily implies resource collection with mindfulness for the surrounding environment, safety, and sustainability. You're illuminating the film's flaws as if they address those flaws, which is kind of weird.
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Feb 26, 2018 01:09
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Nodosaur posted:If there were environmental risk to Wakanda's operations, the movie would have portrayed the nation as a spoiled industrialist dystopia. And no environmentalist or naturalist worth taking seriously actually advocates that stopping the use or collection of natural resources entirely. The movie doesn't focus on the vibranium mining process at all beyond as a set piece and a plot device for the origin of their technology, but the design of Wakanda heavily implies resource collection with mindfulness for the surrounding environment, safety, and sustainability. you're focusing solely about on environmental issues when what's being talked about is economics
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Feb 26, 2018 01:37
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What exactly do y'all need here? The movie to stop and explain the real world sustainability model for the fictional space metal they made? For the kind of movie this is I'm content with them just showing Wakanda is stable and idyllic in terms of ecology and environment and that they aren't spoiling or abusing their populace or landscape in the process. The pretense that this is anything like the MoS version of Krypton seems predicated on the idea that the mine exists at all. Which, again, no environmentalist who knows what they're talking about would argue that we should stop using natural resources completely. Brother Entropy posted:you're focusing solely about on environmental issues when what's being talked about is economics I don't see at all how this is an issue of economics. Wealth inequality didn't cause Krypton to explode, their abuse of their planet did.
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Feb 26, 2018 01:38
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I was just a lil bummed myself that the depiction of this like, ancient secluded "truly African" civilization ended up just more or less being "generic glowy futuristic skyscraper city" There was a lil unique flavor to it I guess but I just found it kinda depressingly unimaginative in a western way. I dunno what it could or should have been like but I was expecting...more...
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Feb 26, 2018 01:51
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Punkin Spunkin posted:I was just a lil bummed myself that the depiction of this like, ancient secluded "truly African" civilization ended up just more or less being "generic glowy futuristic skyscraper city" I disagree. If you pay attention to the individual buildings they all have a kind of neat, textured appearance that’s strikingly different from both contemporary architecture and the usual portrayal of futuristic buildings as being sleek glass affairs. Unless just “any city with tall buildings” is unimaginative and Western.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:01
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Nodosaur posted:I don't see at all how this is an issue of economics. Wealth inequality didn't cause Krypton to explode, their abuse of their planet did. Zod's leading a coup because of the elders' stagnant leadership that led to the implosion of Krypton. What you're seeing in BP is the early stages of the same outreach Krypton eventually abandoned. With Killmonger dead there's little hope for radical top-down change for Wakanda. BP ends with the monarchy intact and piddling steps into the wider world begun. Even if we can say lessons are learned, which they are, the wrong lessons are learned with the unstable Wakandan system continuing on. Black Panther's film costume is even based on Clark's Krypton suit: https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2316521/how-black-panthers-costume-is-modeled-after-supermans-in-man-of-steel The broad comparisons remain by hollowing out their land to sustain a caste system doing the bare minimum.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:03
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Phylodox posted:I disagree. If you pay attention to the individual buildings they all have a kind of neat, textured appearance that’s strikingly different from both contemporary architecture and the usual portrayal of futuristic buildings as being sleek glass affairs. Unless just “any city with tall buildings” is unimaginative and Western.  It just could've been Asgard as far as I was concerned.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:06
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Punkin Spunkin posted:It didn't feel too striking at first glance but I did only just get a glimpse of it so I'm willing to buy this Asgard isn’t very unimaginative or Western, either, though. Again, unless just the concept of a skyline made up of vertical buildings is what you’re talking about.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:09
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They explicitly said that Wakanda hasn't even scratched the surface of their vibranium deposits. They're aren't going to run out for thousands of years.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:10
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Rand Brittain posted:They explicitly said that Wakanda hasn't even scratched the surface of their vibranium deposits. They're aren't going to run out for thousands of years. phew, there was almost an interesting plot thread they could've used in future movies for a second there
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Feb 26, 2018 02:12
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Punch Drunk Drewsky posted:Zod's leading a coup because of the elders' stagnant leadership that led to the implosion of Krypton. What you're seeing in BP is the early stages of the same outreach Krypton eventually abandoned. With Killmonger dead there's little hope for radical top-down change for Wakanda. BP ends with the monarchy intact and piddling steps into the wider world begun. Even if we can say lessons are learned, which they are, the wrong lessons are learned with the unstable Wakandan system continuing on. Yeah, you lost me when you brought up costume design like it creates any real link between the two story's themes. The article you linked even says the lessons they took about MOS where about the form and function of costume design, not the ideology of either movie. I think there's a discussion to be had about the movie's politics and the role of traditionalism, but you seem to be connecting it to MoS for the sake of connecting it to MoS.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:13
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Waffles Inc. posted:I used to think that Ultimates 1 and 2 were good but I think they've aged incredibly poorly Ultimate is what got me back on “mainstream” comics after a long hiatus, and for that I’ll always give it props, but it absolutely has aged terribly. It’s pretty hard to root for outright cynicism, and it’s an incredible insult to ask the reader to root for conservative douchebag Captain “Do You Think This Letter Stands For France” America and wannabe-rapist Hulk. Mark Miller has written one truly good thing, and that thing is Red Son. The rest of his catalogue is tryhard Garth Ennis fanfiction.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:13
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Wakanda is basically Galt’s Gulch, and it apparently only just now, in 2017, occurred to a few of the people living there that being an Ayn Rand hero makes you a huge rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:18
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Phylodox posted:I disagree. If you pay attention to the individual buildings they all have a kind of neat, textured appearance that’s strikingly different from both contemporary architecture and the usual portrayal of futuristic buildings as being sleek glass affairs. Unless just “any city with tall buildings” is unimaginative and Western. Almost all the buildings had integrated terraced gardens, and I think I spotted some of the biomimetic architecture popularized in Zimbabwe.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:19
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Punkin Spunkin posted:I was just a lil bummed myself that the depiction of this like, ancient secluded "truly African" civilization ended up just more or less being "generic glowy futuristic skyscraper city" No cars. Automatically keeps it from being generic.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:19
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Brother Entropy posted:phew, there was almost an interesting plot thread they could've used in future movies for a second there Don't worry, they can always have that change for any old bullshit reason. Like Godzilla or Charles Barkley attack Wakanda and blow up the vibranium or something.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:24
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Nodosaur posted:Yeah, you lost me when you brought up costume design like it creates any real link between the two story's themes. The article you linked even says the lessons they took about MOS where about the form and function of costume design, not the ideology of either movie. This isn't going to be a productive chat for either of us if you're taking all this literally. I posted the costume link as an example of similar aesthetics with point to sympathetic ideals, the political similarities are in the ruling systems of both films, the economic systems are basically identical, and we can get into plot/character similarities. Wakanda is Krypton some several hundred or thousand years before the total collapse. Snyder preemptively critiqued the entire MCU with Watchmen, and now that the MCU's reached its arguably worst point (for me anywho) with BP its become the Kryptonian foundation we see in MoS.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:26
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MonsieurChoc posted:Don't worry, they can always have that change for any old bullshit reason. Like Godzilla or Charles Barkley attack Wakanda and blow up the vibranium or something. haha, fair enough
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Feb 26, 2018 02:26
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MonsieurChoc posted:Don't worry, they can always have that change for any old bullshit reason. Like Godzilla or Charles Barkley attack Wakanda and blow up the vibranium or something. Dennis Rodman tries to steal vibranium for North Korea. Stuff happens, and suddenly there's a giant Dennis Rodman stomping across the Wakandan countryside. Good thing all those giant animal carvings each Wakandan tribe made are actually giant robots that combine together.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:31
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MonsieurChoc posted:Don't worry, they can always have that change for any old bullshit reason. Like Godzilla and Charles Barkley attack Wakanda and blow up the vibranium or something. For some reason the antman and wasp stuff does nothing for me. When I see that hello kitty poo poo I'm just hyper reminded of being in a movie. Never saw all of the first one tho so I guess it just ain't for me.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:31
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Lobok posted:No cars. Automatically keeps it from being generic. It cripples that, though, since we only spend one scene in a Wakandan location that isn't a palace or Suri's lab.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:34
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The solo story trailer was before black panther too and it just made me nervous. Quiet unresponsive audience. I was just thinking "this looks okay but there's no way this dude has young Harrison ford charisma or swagger or joke delivery" It's a high bar, I know, but if you can't hit it don't try.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:36
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Snowman_McK posted:It cripples that, though, since we only spend one scene in a Wakandan location that isn't a palace or Suri's lab. There are at least two scenes in the bazaar and one out by W’Kabi’s rhino enclosure.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:41
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Phylodox posted:There are at least two scenes in the bazaar and one out by W’Kabi’s rhino enclosure. There's one scene in the bazaar, and it's entirely about T'Challa and Nakia. I guess it's more a comment that we don't get any scenes or interaction with any Wakandan that isn't part of the ruling class.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:59
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Snowman_McK posted:There's one scene in the bazaar, and it's entirely about T'Challa and Nakia. I remember there being a scene earlier in the movie, where T’Challa tries and fails to convince Nakia to stay in Wakanda, that takes place in the bazaar. And there’s at least one scene in the jungles outside the palace, the mountain pass leading to Jabari lands.
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Feb 26, 2018 03:02
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Phylodox posted:I remember there being a scene earlier in the movie, where T’Challa tries and fails to convince Nakia to stay in Wakanda, that takes place in the bazaar. And there’s at least one scene in the jungles outside the palace, the mountain pass leading to Jabari lands. That was precisely the one I was referring to. What's the other one? Even so. Snowman_McK posted:I guess it's more a comment that we don't get any scenes or interaction with any Wakandan that isn't part of the ruling class.
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Feb 26, 2018 03:03
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One of my friends called Justice League the best movie 1996 ever made (which is a lie but i get where he was coming from) and I just had a vision: James Cameron's Justice League starring Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne/Batman Christopher Reeve as Clark Kent/Superman Jamie Lee Curtis as Diana Prince/Wonder Woman Keanu Reeves as Barry Allen/The Flash Will Smith as Victor Stone/Cyborg Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman Pat Hingle as Commissioner Gordon Michael Gough as Alfred Pennyworth Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor Margot Kidder as Lois Lane Morgan Freeman as Dr. Elias Stone Woody Harrelson as Braniac Coming June 1995
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Feb 26, 2018 03:03
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