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Wise Fwom Yo Gwave posted:Would you put Disco above or below TAS? I haven't watched it, so I don't know if it'd be fair to rate it based on second-hand information. But I'd probably put it below TAS based on what I've been hearing. It looks and sounds like one of those same-y CW shows, and some of its fans are obnoxious.
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Mar 6, 2018 16:41
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Discovery lacked focus because the eventual showrunner wanted nothing to do with Fuller's plot that was setup in the first three episodes. So the whole thing was a convoluted mess and it's clear that the current showrunners really just want to do a soft TOS reboot like the movie universe rather than being in the Prime universe as advertised. It remains to be seen if they can pull off a coherent story when they aren't saddled with baggage that they didn't want and protested at every turn.
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Mar 6, 2018 17:19
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I think the simple solution is STOP MAKING TREKS BETWEEN THE TOS and TNG era. If anything Star Trek is about looking forward, so pull a TNG and set it 50-100 years after the end of the Dominion War.
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Mar 6, 2018 17:54
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It probably would have been fine had it been Fuller's original anthology idea. One and done tight story. But as an ongoing series? Nope. Not without a reboot. So far, EVERYTHING about the series would have fit fine further in the future and they would have been able to sidestep every continuity complaint.
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Mar 6, 2018 18:01
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marktheando posted:I’m just going to assume that anyone who says Discovery is worse than Voyager hasn’t actually watched either show.  but that guy ranking the new Trek movies below Generations and Insurrection.
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Mar 6, 2018 18:03
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I was generally entertained with every episode of DISCO so far. Maybe the weakest one was the Sarek flashback episode, and that was far from terrible. I get it's not everyone's cup of tea. But I just find the whole "gamify hating discovery" thing to be quite grating. And no, it's not JJTrek.
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Mar 6, 2018 18:08
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Echo Chamber posted:I get it's not everyone's cup of tea. But I just find the whole "gamify hating discovery" thing to be quite grating. People are just having a hard time coming to terms with discovery's season one easily being the best overall season 1 of any star trek show so far
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Mar 6, 2018 18:36
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PostNouveau posted:
Not all of them. Beyond was pretty good; probably the best of the three. Star Trek 2009 was...OK. I neither loved it nor hated it. I didn't find it particularly memorable. The only one I actively dislike is ID, because it was almost a point-by-point rehash of TWoK. The problem is that they merely rehashed the original movie's plot without any apparent understanding of the interwoven themes; how the scenes they chose to redo fit into the story and why they were so great. It was more like "OK, so now a character has to make a big sacrifice, and...good. OK, now we'll just resurrect him in five minutes to take all the punch out of his death. Cut. Great!" F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 18:43
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Mooseontheloose posted:I think the simple solution is STOP MAKING TREKS BETWEEN THE TOS and TNG era. If anything Star Trek is about looking forward, so pull a TNG and set it 50-100 years after the end of the Dominion War. The real problem is that nobody's willing to do a hard reboot and say (out loud) "gently caress your established continuity, we're making a clean break and doing an entirely different timeline where you'll hear some familiar words that we'll use and rearrange in any order we please, events may or may not play out as they did on previous shows, characters may or may not be present or the same as you remember them." The franchise keeps getting caught between wanting to prove it's new and hip and ~relevant~, so it feels the need to reinvent a bunch of stuff, but also being too insecure in what its offering to resist leaning on fanservice and appeals to "well yeah it's in the same timeline as your other space toys".
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Mar 6, 2018 18:51
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:The only one I actively dislike is ID, because it was almost a point-by-point rehash of TWoK. nick meyer definitely had a better take on shooting up Starfleet Headquarters and threatening the Klingon homeworld with a massive
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Mar 6, 2018 18:53
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also when kirk's dad got killed in TWOK - whoof! - that was a real gut punch for me as a kid. don't know how jay jay ever thought he'd top that with his Chris Pike knockoff getting fragged by
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Mar 6, 2018 18:57
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there's severely stupid poo poo in STID but it's not a point-by-point remake of TWOK. it just desperately wanted the name recognition and an excuse to have a supervillain that could be punched a lot
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Mar 6, 2018 19:01
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The Bloop posted:It's too soon to say. STD feels like a cynical cash in while VOY and ENT felt like earnest if not utterly bland and tired attempts to iterate. You're absolutely on the nose that they all suck about the same, just in different ways. I figure if they can't churn out a decent episode by the same point next season that TNG turned out Measure of a Man then we'll have our answer
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Mar 6, 2018 19:04
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Yeah, ID wasn't a shot for poo poo remake of TWOK. It did, however, try crib the most emotional moments of TWOK with hilarious effect. I was giggling in the theater, almost uncontrollably. It was like a bad SNL sketch.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:07
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Yeah, I guess I exaggerated a little. The first part of the movie, from what I remember, was OK. It was the second half that felt like TWoK revisited, badly. The whole thing, including the "Khaaaan!" scream, felt like someone who had watched TWoK the night before and had hastily written what they thought was a "different" take on it, but with no understanding of the emotional scenes or why they had such an impact. The person above me had it right: they cribbed all the emotional scenes and made them seem like a joke, and that's why I'm so hostile to ID.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:13
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You're totally correct about all that but I will refer anyone who thinks Into Darkness was worse than Insurrection to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyyjCn1ML3k
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Mar 6, 2018 19:29
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The real problem is that nobody's willing to do a hard reboot and say (out loud) "gently caress your established continuity, we're making a clean break and doing an entirely different timeline where you'll hear some familiar words that we'll use and rearrange in any order we please, events may or may not play out as they did on previous shows, characters may or may not be present or the same as you remember them." The franchise keeps getting caught between wanting to prove it's new and hip and ~relevant~, so it feels the need to reinvent a bunch of stuff, but also being too insecure in what its offering to resist leaning on fanservice and appeals to "well yeah it's in the same timeline as your other space toys". I would gladly watch a Gotham style remake of Trek. Of course, I would gladly watch pretty much any and all Trek because I'm a dork.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:34
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The Bloop posted:Of course, I would gladly watch pretty much any and all Trek because I'm a dork. VOY haters get hosed
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Mar 6, 2018 19:39
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The Bloop posted:Of course, I would gladly watch pretty much any and all Trek because I'm a dork. I would too, but given the output of the franchise since 1999 I think I'm well past paying anybody any money to see it. PostNouveau posted:You're totally correct about all that but I will refer anyone who thinks Into Darkness was worse than Insurrection to this I'll take goofy rear end early TNG-style bullshit over 9/11 truther bullshit any day of the week
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Mar 6, 2018 19:39
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Honestly I think that makes me cringe more than any other scene in the whole movie. God help anyone who'd never seen any Trek before.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:39
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Tighclops posted:I'll take goofy rear end early TNG-style bullshit over 9/11 truther bullshit any day of the week Doesn't necessarily make them good and enjoyable movies, of course.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:41
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Tighclops posted:I would too, but given the output of the franchise since 1999 I think I'm well past paying anybody any money to see it. Yeah, worth watching is easy because there's still always hatewatching. I think we're way past any possibility of making Trek worth paying for. I'd sure love to be wrong though.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:43
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Hipster_Doofus posted:Yeah, worth watching is easy because there's still always hatewatching. I think we're way past any possibility of making Trek worth paying for. I'd sure love to be wrong though. I don't hatewatch. I mean, I occasionally cringewatch as with watching The Room or something, but I don't have time for watching something just to hate it. Discovery is very close to being good. It's not that they don't have the budget, or the actors. It just needs a hot Trek injection. It could happen.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:47
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PostNouveau posted:You're totally correct about all that but I will refer anyone who thinks Into Darkness was worse than Insurrection to this I'd take that scene over MICHAELBAY SPLOSIONS LISTEN ALL YALL IT'S SABOTAAAAAGE any loving day of the week. The kelvin movies have way more in common with the Transformers series than trek.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:47
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Even when TNG was at its worst (and it was bad a lot), it still had PStew and Michael Dorn and Frakes and everyone else.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:51
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PostNouveau posted:You're totally correct about all that but I will refer anyone who thinks Into Darkness was worse than Insurrection to this Good point.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:51
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PostNouveau posted:You're totally correct about all that but I will refer anyone who thinks Into Darkness was worse than Insurrection to this Hahaha what the gently caress is this
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Mar 6, 2018 19:55
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Bohemian Nights posted:Hahaha what the gently caress is this Two button presses to bring up a specific song in karaoke mode. They must use the intention-sensing door technology to power the onboard jukebox nowadays.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:57
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The Bloop posted:I don't hatewatch. I mean, I occasionally cringewatch as with watching The Room or something, but I don't have time for watching something just to hate it. Meanwhile their one writer that actually wrote for Trek shows jumped ship to the Orville lmao
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Mar 6, 2018 19:59
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It’s just a shame seeing people who would probably enjoy Discovery write it off because of visual continuity or because they think it’s ‘grimdark’ (it’s not). It’s a Star Trek show, chances are if you like other Star Trek shows you will like Discovery. It’s main plot is a bit of a mess but when it’s good it is genuinely a good show. And the worst episodes are just ok, there’s nothing anywhere near as bad as the low points of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise’s first seasons.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:10
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The Bloop posted:Two button presses to bring up a specific song in karaoke mode. Makes sense. But I could also see the sidebar looking like - Shields - Power Distrubutor - Flux Array - Karaoke - Phaser Banks Just all the vital systems readily available
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Mar 6, 2018 20:11
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marktheando posted:It’s just a shame seeing people who would probably enjoy Discovery write it off because of visual continuity or because they think it’s ‘grimdark’ (it’s not). It’s a Star Trek show, chances are if you like other Star Trek shows you will like Discovery. It’s main plot is a bit of a mess but when it’s good it is genuinely a good show. And the worst episodes are just ok, there’s nothing anywhere near as bad as the low points of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise’s first seasons. poo poo characters poo poo setting poo poo production design poo poo music and a poo poo story that brings nothing new to the table, it's a step above being Walking Dead levels of bad and that has nothing to do with any continuity issue real or imagined since I'm pretty sure most people don't care anymore
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Mar 6, 2018 20:19
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Tighclops posted:poo poo characters poo poo setting poo poo production design poo poo music and a poo poo story that brings nothing new to the table, it's a step above being Walking Dead levels of bad and that has nothing to do with any continuity issue real or imagined since I'm pretty sure most people don't care anymore Holy moley haha, knowing that a certain segment of trekkie grognards feel this way makes enjoying discovery that much more fun
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Mar 6, 2018 20:23
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marktheando posted:It’s just a shame seeing people who would probably enjoy Discovery write it off because of visual continuity or because they think it’s ‘grimdark’ (it’s not). It’s a Star Trek show, chances are if you like other Star Trek shows you will like Discovery. It’s main plot is a bit of a mess but when it’s good it is genuinely a good show. And the worst episodes are just ok, there’s nothing anywhere near as bad as the low points of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise’s first seasons. 'When it's good it's genuinely good' is true but also damning it with faint praise because that is rare af I watched every episode. I watch to enjoy not to criticize or hate. That doesn't mean it's good - it's really just OK overall. Good enough, as I've said in the Disco thread, to keep me watching because I hope to catch glimpses of Trek Visual continuity is 100% less important than Rule of Cool but all the Klingon stuff looked terrible Bohemian Nights posted:Holy moley haha, knowing that a certain segment of trekkie grognards feel this way makes enjoying discovery that much more fun Schadenfreude is fun and all, but a truly good show would be considerably better.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:35
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I try not to judge people based on the shows they like or the games they play for fun, but I've noticed a lot of people enjoy STD the way goons enjoy playing STO, which is to say it's less about the thing they're watching/doing and more about how it pisses someone else off Which is typically fine because the fandom is filled with toxic losers that will throw a bitchfit if a nacelle is the wrong colour or something, but it makes having any more nuanced opinion than "I like this new version of thing!" kind of depressing
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Mar 6, 2018 20:37
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marktheando posted:It’s just a shame seeing people who would probably enjoy Discovery write it off because of visual continuity or because they think it’s ‘grimdark’ (it’s not). It’s a Star Trek show, chances are if you like other Star Trek shows you will like Discovery. It’s main plot is a bit of a mess but when it’s good it is genuinely a good show. And the worst episodes are just ok, there’s nothing anywhere near as bad as the low points of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise’s first seasons. Discovery is fine, it's just not star trek. It's right there in the cold open, star trek is about exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations, and boldly going where no one has gone before. Discovery didn't actually do any of that in its first season. It's a show about war in space. It doesn't really ask any questions or suggest any answers about the nature of war in space, it just shows us a space war with lasers and ships chasing each other around. I would like it a lot more if it wasn't called Star Trek. It's a pretty good space war show. It's not as schlocky and cheap as Dark Matter or Killjoys or the various Stargates, nor is it as clever and polished as The Expanse or BSG or Farscape. It's right down the middle. It just isn't a star trek show. Maybe next season it'll try to be. Bohemian Nights posted:Holy moley haha, knowing that a certain segment of trekkie grognards feel this way makes enjoying discovery that much more fun trolling is fun and all but do you seriously get enjoyment out of merely having an opinion that you know other people don't like? even if you never actually interact with those people? Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 20:40
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Mooseontheloose posted:I think the simple solution is STOP MAKING TREKS BETWEEN THE TOS and TNG era. If anything Star Trek is about looking forward, so pull a TNG and set it 50-100 years after the end of the Dominion War. Stop making Treks that nobody has made? Seriously, though, I'd love a Star Trek that takes place between TOS and TNG. That's 80 years of untapped potential, wearing the movie uniforms to boot. There's potential there with material to exploit. Why did the Romulans retreat from the galactic stage? How did we get from Star Trek VI to TNG in terms of Federation-Klingon relations? The adventures of Captain Kevin Reily And that's just off the top of my head. If I really wanted to throw myself into Memory Alpha and dig, I could probably come up with a couple seasons worth of episodes based on background information from TNG episodes (what was the Tomed Incident, for example). The problem is that when people make a new show, they want new things. Which is why we saw new aliens in Enterprise that were never even mentioned in any of the other shows.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:43
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I watched all of Discovery and my opinion is that it's another iteration bland aimless Trek wrapped up in a better set of production values the exact same way that Enterprise was against Voyager. It ultimately didn't say anything interesting and gave us 2 or 3 characters that I wouldn't mind seeing more of. It spent way too much of its running time trying to redefine a premise that it never wanted. It's possible that a completely fresh production will improve things, but so far I haven't really seen anything that elevates its storytelling beyond the banality of late Burman Trek.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:51
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:trolling is fun and all but do you seriously get enjoyment out of merely having an opinion that you know other people don't like? even if you never actually interact with those people? "- schadenfreude noun, often capitalized scha·den·freu·de \ ˈshä-dᵊn-ˌfrȯi-də \ enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others" Also all my star trek opinions are true and from the heart, no troll, no bamboozle I mean I would obviously prefer a star trek so great we could all enjoy it in perfect harmony, but alas that will never happen so I will get my multilayered jollies from where I can
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Mar 6, 2018 20:59
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PostNouveau posted:You're totally correct about all that but I will refer anyone who thinks Into Darkness was worse than Insurrection to this Nothing wrong with this clip other than Picard's clear surprise that Worf doesn't know some 19th century human songs or whatever. Replace this scene with "Sabotage" and throw in some lens flares and you've got JJTrek.
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