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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The duel for ascension can only be won by submission or death so Killmonger was never the rightful ruler at any point. No King was ever a rightful ruler in a thousand years of hereditary monarchy.
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Mar 6, 2018 10:17
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The cat god said they were
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Mar 6, 2018 11:53
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Snowman_McK posted:A CIA agent materially helps T'Challa get the throne back. It massively downshifts the importance of the CIA's role in the proceedings. Sir Kodiak posted:Which conveyed authority in Wakanda, but cannot convey rightful authority. It does according to the UN, who recognised T'Challa as the rightful ruler of Wakanda. 
Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 12:18
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quote:(executive rule by complete Fiat, inheritance or Noble trial by combat only, men only] Overall the thing seemed kind of symbolic though. Like - doesn’t the queen of england technically have a bunch of rights she just “chooses” not to use and could probably cause a lot of chaos if she tried?
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Mar 6, 2018 12:27
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The reactions to the duel seemed to imply that while technically legally binding, it's mostly ceremonial (most of these kind of rituals usually are, historically there's always massive amounts of cheating) and Erik wouldn't have lasted as long on the throne as he did if he didn't have the military on his side. Kind of a big deal of the movie is that Wakanda's in a pretty complacent status quo that it really can't afford to be in anymore.
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Mar 6, 2018 13:10
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Edward Mass posted:I'd like for (DC) Captain Marvel to be a hero who wants to be a part of the Justice League, but they pay no attention to him. Then, when we get Green Lantern Corps and Stewart joins the Justice League, Cap's like "Oh COME ON." "We're happy to extend a warm welcome to our newest member of the league, Captain..." "Come on...." "America" "gently caress"
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Mar 6, 2018 14:07
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YOLOsubmarine posted:
Definitely. The point is when Erik shows up and talks about founding an empire the Wakandan ruling council is immediately down for it. That's the flip side to their isolationism.
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Mar 6, 2018 14:10
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:The cat god said they were Strange kittens going around distributing superpowers is no basis for a system of government!
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Mar 6, 2018 14:37
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So Killmonger is Mosaddegh and T'challa is the Shah (willing to give his country's natural resources to the rest of the world)?
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Mar 6, 2018 15:06
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Which is implicitly not "installing" him.
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Mar 6, 2018 15:39
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yes i misspoke he clearly re-installed t'challa. there was a clear time before killmonger when t'challa was king for like three days
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Mar 6, 2018 15:41
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Black Panther should have just said, like, yeah I used your CIA this time but if you try any of that poo poo with me in charge I'll fuckin destroy America.
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Mar 6, 2018 15:47
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josh04 posted:No King was ever a rightful ruler in a thousand years of hereditary monarchy. Depends on your Legitimacy score.
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Mar 6, 2018 17:05
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But since any tribe can challenge him to combat at any time, then it's kind of a democracy by virtue of fact that they do not! Uh, yeah!
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Mar 6, 2018 17:18
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Al Borland Corp. posted:But since any tribe can challenge him to combat at any time, then it's kind of a democracy by virtue of fact that they do not! Uh, yeah! Especially since they all have the innate training and technology and abilities that he has as King
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Mar 6, 2018 17:23
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MonsieurChoc posted:Americans have trouble realizing the CIA is one of the vilest organizations in recent history. It's called Rambo 3
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Mar 6, 2018 19:53
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So there's a rumor around that now that Flashpoint finally has directors, they're scrapping the script again and working on a treatment where the cameos from the other heroes are being scrapped due JL's failure. The worst part is that is so loving stupid that I'm inclined to believe is true.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:56
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The film was pretty weird about his character. He starts out as sarcastic and morally grey (cutting a deal with a known murderer/terrorist like Klaue to get what he needs) and competent enough to keep T'Challa from taking Klaue but not competent enough to stop Killmonger from breaking him out, Was it morally grey? I got the feeling from the scene it was more of an undercover sting. If it was just a buy I don't think the CIA would have cared if T'Challa grabbed Klaue right after the exchange.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:03
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Extremely excited to see how DC's plan to retarget their films towards the 12 people still buying comics goes.I Before E posted:It's called Rambo 3 Funny way to spelling "The Living Daylights"
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Mar 6, 2018 20:03
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corn in the bible posted:Marvel wanted a major white character for marketing purposes, so Priest put in a racist loser who can't do anything but get yelled at by Bill Clinton. That's funny to me. Priest calls Ross the main character of his run.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:09
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Was it morally grey? I got the feeling from the scene it was more of an undercover sting. If it was just a buy I don't think the CIA would have cared if T'Challa grabbed Klaue right after the exchange. Maybe the CIA is double wrong. They're going to buy weapons and torture the guy they bought from to find out where to get more.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:11
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Nodosaur posted:Priest calls Ross the main character of his run. Yes, but there's a difference between being a viewpoint protagonist and being heroic.
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Mar 6, 2018 21:06
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He's there to get dunked on, kind of like happens multiple times in the movie.
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Mar 6, 2018 21:11
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Him getting dunked on is there to distract from the fact that there's no real opposition between Black Panther and the CIA in the movie.
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Mar 6, 2018 21:36
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yeah by all accounts bilbo is the total winner of the movie. he gets his life saved by t'challa and an instrumental role in neutralizing a threat to american interests. when he's done he gets to go home with mounds of incredible intel about a new world superpower and has helped bring to power an absolute monarch who views him favorably and is going to hand over the one thing that allowed his people to maintain an uncolonized status for centuries. that dude will be running the cia in 10 years
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Mar 6, 2018 21:45
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sean10mm posted:He's there to get dunked on, kind of like happens multiple times in the movie. Right before he shoots down and kills Wakandans in aerial combat via remote. I Before E posted:It's called Rambo 3 Those are Mujahadeen, not Al Qaeda Snowglobe of Doom posted:It massively downshifts the importance of the CIA's role in the proceedings. But not the fact that he helps. Not the fact that a CIA agent helps a character called Black Panther against an angry young black guy. corn in the bible posted:Black Panther should have just said, like, yeah I used your CIA this time but if you try any of that poo poo with me in charge I'll fuckin destroy America. That would have required any conflict in the film beyond that with the angry young black guy
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Mar 6, 2018 22:27
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i saw thor ragnarok. i liked the stuff on the junk planet. i did not like the asgard stuff. too bad it couldn't be just on the junk planet. great article on bp btw: https://www.alternet.org/culture/disturbingly-conservative-message-behind-marvels-revolutionary-black-panther Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Mar 7, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 23:56
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corn in the bible posted:Yes, but there's a difference between being a viewpoint protagonist and being heroic. Heroic or not, this is what Priest said about him: quote:According to creator Christopher Priest, Ross's personality was based on that of Chandler Bing, a character from the television series Friends, while the name was inspired by the Family Ties character Alex P. Keaton.[1] After introducing Ross in Ka-Zar, Priest chose to bring the character back in Black Panther for use as an audience surrogate who "saw Panther the way Panther had ultimately come to be seen by Marvel: Just Some Guy who was routinely overshadowed by heroes in which they were more invested".[2] I was a bit off myself, but the character was created by Priest because he was writing for an audience of primarily white people. It wasn't a point of rebellion against editorial, it was him using Ross as a way to contextualize an out of universe reaction to the Black Panther with what he was trying to do with the narrative. Ross also ultimately becomes Panther's ally and friend, with one story having him assist T'Challa in stopping a political coup against his leadership from within Wakanda. Sounds pretty familiar. All the movie does is make him a little more competent from the outset and change the government organization he works for.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:15
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The latter is a pretty significant change.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:24
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The state department is responsible for advising on and overseeing matters of foreign policy, isn't it? I'd imagine they're as representative of the actions of american authority as any other, especially considering they're led by the Secretary of State and supposed to work with and coordinate with other governmental organizations as needed.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:28
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:So there's a rumor around that now that Flashpoint finally has directors, they're scrapping the script again and working on a treatment where the cameos from the other heroes are being scrapped due JL's failure. The Flash is kind of a neat character but gently caress if he isn't hard to write. I can't think of a single interesting idea for a Flash story to be honest. I mean, what do you DO with him really? Make him clean up as a pizza delivery guy or put him on an NFL team? Actually, that's my idea. Make him impoverished and set it as a period piece where he joins the NFL or becomes a boxer who only runs or punches as fast as has to so as not to give away his powers.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:28
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BiggerBoat posted:The Flash is kind of a neat character but gently caress if he isn't hard to write. I can't think of a single interesting idea for a Flash story to be honest. I mean, what do you DO with him really? Make him clean up as a pizza delivery guy or put him on an NFL team? I mean I haven't watched it but the Flash has a lengthy television series which seems at least somewhat popular.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:29
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Nodosaur posted:The state department is responsible for advising on and overseeing matters of foreign policy, isn't it? I'd imagine they're as representative of the actions of american authority as any other, especially considering they're led by the Secretary of State and supposed to work with and coordinate with other governmental organizations as needed. You may want to consider picking up a copy of "Killing Hope: U.S. Military and C.I.A. Interventions since World War II" by William Blum.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:39
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TetsuoTW posted:one dude was wrong on one point therefore the cia is cool and good now ok guys No one has been saying that the CIA are cool and good. loving hell, what a tedious discussion.
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Mar 7, 2018 01:02
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I'm not under any illusions that the CIA is good. I'm saying that I don't see how working for the State Department doesn't come with similar baggage.
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Mar 7, 2018 01:04
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ImpAtom posted:I mean I haven't watched it but the Flash has a lengthy television series which seems at least somewhat popular. Everyone who watches it hates it but watches anyway
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Mar 7, 2018 01:29
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Nodosaur posted:I'm not under any illusions that the CIA is good. I'm saying that I don't see how working for the State Department doesn't come with similar baggage. It's the difference between Voice of America [State Dept] and Operation Mockingbird [CIA]. One of them is open about their intentions and has limits on how far they'll go, the other program relies upon shell organizations and cloak and dagger activities. While both of groups work towards the same ends, State Department has to at least pay lip service to America's ideals in addition to America's goals.
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Mar 7, 2018 01:46
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Nodosaur posted:I'm not under any illusions that the CIA is good. I'm saying that I don't see how working for the State Department doesn't come with similar baggage. Because attempting to assert or maintain American advantage through traditional diplomacy is not the same as assassinating leaders of burgeoning democratic movements and backing brutal dictators who happen to align with American interests. One is engaged in the normal, sometimes ugly, business of geopolitics, and the other is throwing nuns out of airplanes.
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Mar 7, 2018 01:58
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I see. I admit, I was working under the assumption that the State Department is involved in far more than it appears to be.
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Mar 7, 2018 02:15
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https://i.imgur.com/EsYG6q0.mp4
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Mar 7, 2018 02:48
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