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P-Mack posted:There was a poo poo-ton of piracy based out of Japan, so even in the absence of a capital-W War their neighbors in China and Korea would certainly get to know them. A lot of that piracy was based out of various other coastal islands in the region--basically anywhere you could hide a boat and some dudes for a while. The pirates were a mixed bag as far as nationality went, like all pirates. Piracy was one of the few career paths open to someone who got kicked out of their village so you went where's would take you. Some Korean and Chinese governments blamed these pirates on "Japan" for political reasons--most notably with the Chinese functionaries, they wanted a pretense to exact tribute from the Japanese rulership. It worked, sometimes, and sometimes Japan was like "well you solve it then if your fleet is so massive." Chinese officials who put a lot of resources into stopping pirates were at risk of being seen as potential rebels and also weren't putting a lot of resources into cultivating favorable political relationships so a lot of piracy went pretty unchecked even in relatively peaceful eras.
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Mar 11, 2018 07:01
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Grand Prize Winner posted:They were going to attach river barges to tug boats (or destroyers/pt poats? can't remember) to try to cross the channel with their landing force. Risky as gently caress even if there's no opposition at all. Plus they had virtually no heavy ships as escorts to drive away the Royal Navy's big stuff if the RN tried to interfere with the invasion convoy (and they would). If Sealion had gone forward, the Admiralty would through most of their fleet in home waters at the landings without hesitation. EDIT: Apparently the C-in-C Home Fleet and the First Sea Lord were opposed to sending their battleships down to the Channel if the Germans didn't send their own battleships to support the landings, but I can't imagine Churchill standing for that if there was a real invasion happening. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Mar 11, 2018 |
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Mar 11, 2018 10:23
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Victor Hutchinson's POW Diary Saturday 10th March, 1945 Issue of 1/7th of Swedish parcel this morning much jubilation & biliousness. Waggy in the pit with dysentery. Entertained Hank & Ken to brew we promised to do the celebrating in style on our return. Sunday 11th March, 1945 Goons are adamant about issuing no more than one parcel per week. We know that 100,000 parcels are in the camp or at the railway station-sufficient parcels for 5 weeks.
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Mar 11, 2018 12:31
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I believe the great fear was that something like Norway might happen- The German invasion of Norway was a bit cobbled together, too- to the point where they were invading by flying transport planes to enemy airfields, landing, and unloading troops. The fact that the invaders were in fairly precarious positions was trumped by their simple presence which spooked the government. I wouldn't call it a rational fear, but it was a thing.
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Mar 11, 2018 12:57
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Can someone tell me what this armored car thing is and if they saw much use? It's adorable. 
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Mar 11, 2018 14:25
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bloom posted:Can someone tell me what this armored car thing is and if they saw much use? Skoda PA-II Želva, Czech armoured car. 12 built. http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/czech/Skoda_PA-II_Zelva.php
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Mar 11, 2018 14:43
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Gervasius posted:Skoda PA-II Želva, Czech armoured car. 12 built. Thanks! I like it even more now that I know it's symmetrical.
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Mar 11, 2018 15:21
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They're now also claiming that if the weather was better the Germans would have easily taken Moscow. Which book was referenced in this thread about Operation Typhoon and how many tanks they kept losing?
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Mar 11, 2018 15:41
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Raenir Salazar posted:They're now also claiming that if the weather was better the Germans would have easily taken Moscow. Which book was referenced in this thread about Operation Typhoon and how many tanks they kept losing? Where are they arguing this? Reddit's askhistorians and other directly history related subreddits (not the nationalist and right wing garbage) are often pretty good, you could link him this post that someone made about Typhoon if he's too dumb to read a book.
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Mar 11, 2018 16:31
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Moscow’s subway system alone at the time would have made Stalingrad look like a fun day in the park with the family.
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Mar 11, 2018 16:54
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Raenir Salazar posted:They're now also claiming that if the weather was better the Germans would have easily taken Moscow. Which book was referenced in this thread about Operation Typhoon and how many tanks they kept losing?
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Mar 11, 2018 16:54
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Glantz's presentation is worthwhile here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qkmO7tm8AU
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Mar 11, 2018 17:31
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Raenir Salazar posted:That series *did* also happen to bring up the Ming's intervention and how important it was The second part of my post was that it might well not have actually been as important as it's traditionally credited.  Although I think the recent (and still not agreed upon) argument is more in a "the Japanese would have found themselves unable to win and would have decided to retreat after Hideyoshi stopped being alive to keep things going" than a "the Joseon would have defeated the Japanese outright" sort of way, so the Ming intervention was still undeniably important in that it hindered at least some of the destruction that went on, as well as totally nixing Hideyoshi's chance of victory.
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Mar 11, 2018 18:14
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The especially harsh Russian Winter in 1941 certainly made the Germans lives more difficult but even if it had been a relatively mild one the Germans were at the very end of their tether and wouldn’t have gotten much closer to Moscow than they historically did. Barbarossa had basically failed by September and Operation Typhoon was a last ditch effort to salvage a victory with little chance of success in even ideal conditions. The Russian counter offensive may have been somewhat less devastating though.
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Mar 11, 2018 18:48
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Radey's The Defense of Moscow 1941 outlines how the German offensive was already pretty hosed quite some time before winter set in.
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Mar 11, 2018 18:52
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occamsnailfile posted:A lot of that piracy was based out of various other coastal islands in the region--basically anywhere you could hide a boat and some dudes for a while. The pirates were a mixed bag as far as nationality went, like all pirates. Piracy was one of the few career paths open to someone who got kicked out of their village so you went where's would take you. Ahem, I think you'll find that Chinese/Koreans are far too virtuous to ever commit piracy. But yeah Ming sources put them at 30% actually Japanese.
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Mar 11, 2018 19:23
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P-Mack posted:Ahem, I think you'll find that Chinese/Koreans are far too virtuous to ever commit piracy. Reading Chinese sources, I've learned that whenever someone does something bad, they're <INSERT ETHNIC GROUP HERE> but if his cousin does something good, he's proudly held up as Chinese.
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Mar 11, 2018 21:25
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Don Gato posted:Reading Chinese sources, I've learned that whenever someone does something bad, they're <INSERT ETHNIC GROUP HERE> but if his cousin does something good, he's proudly held up as Chinese. Ah, so han chinese is used as we'd use "white"
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Mar 12, 2018 00:37
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Don Gato posted:Reading Chinese sources, I've learned that whenever someone does something bad, they're <INSERT ETHNIC GROUP HERE> but if his cousin does something good, he's proudly held up as Chinese. I suspect this ^ is a big part of the reason for this: Koramei posted:Honestly the worst part isn't really related to Japan at all, but the way we conceive of China as a country all through history is pretty stupid, when its level of disunity, cultural variation and so on was so much more on par with Europe as a whole. But in a textbook about say, the Middle Ages, since China is a country, and England is a country, let's give them the same amount of attention. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like there's quite a bit of nationalist propaganda that aims to present China as this unified ur-civilization playing the long game since time immemorial.
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Mar 12, 2018 01:01
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You're not wrong at all, and while it's ramped up tenfold since, it's been getting pushed by China even before the CCP. Doesn't mean it's not a stupid conception though.
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Mar 12, 2018 01:06
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Raenir Salazar posted:They're now also claiming that if the weather was better the Germans would have easily taken Moscow. This is almost as stupid as Sea Lion succeeding.
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Mar 12, 2018 01:08
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Marder III family Queue: Pershing trials in the USSR, Tiger study in the USSR, PIAT, SU-76, Heavy tanks M6, M6A1, and T1E1, SAu 40 and other medium SPGs, IS-2 (Object 234) and other Soviet heavy howitzer tanks, T-70B, SU-152, T-26 improved track projects, Object 238 and other improvements on the KV-1S, Lee and Grant tanks in British service, Matilda, T26E4 Super Pershing, GMC M12, PzII Ausf. J, VK 30.01(P)/Typ 100/Leopard, VK 36.01(H), Luchs, Leopard, and other recon tanks, PzIII Ausf. G trials in the USSR, SU-203, 105 mm howitzer M2A1, Mosin, Baranov's pocket mortar, Pz.Sfl.IVc, Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer", Semovente L40 da 47/32, Semovente da 75/18, Semovente da 105/25 Available for request:  IM-1 squeezebore cannon 45 mm M-6 gun Schmeisser's work in the USSR Object 237 (IS-1 prototype) SU-85 T-29-5 KV-85 Tank sleds T-80 (the light tank) Proposed Soviet heavy tank destroyers DS-39 tank machinegun IS-1 (IS-85) IS-2 (object 240) Russian Renault Soviet tank winter camo MS-1/T-18  25-pounder 25-pounder "Baby" Cruiser Tank Mk.I Cruiser Tank Mk.II Valentine III and V Valentine IX Valentine X and XI  37 mm Anti-Tank Gun M3 36 inch Little David mortar Medium Tank M3 use in the USSR GMC M8 105 mm howitzer M3 Scorpion  15 cm sIG 33 10.5 cm leFH 18 7.5 cm LG 40 10.5 cm LG 42 Tiger (P) Stahlhelm in WWI Stahlhelm in WWII Nashorn/Hornisse PzIII Ausf. E and F PzIII Ausf. G and H Ferdinand 17 cm K i. Mrs. Laf. Grosstraktor Trials of the PzIII Ausf. H in the USSR NEW   47 mm wz.25 infantry gun 7TP and Vickers Mk.E trials in the USSR 7.92 mm wz. 35 anti-tank rifle 76.2 mm wz. 1902 and 75 mm wz. 1902/26  SD-100 (Czech SU-100 clone)  Hotchkiss H 35 and H 39
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Mar 12, 2018 02:07
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occamsnailfile posted:A lot of that piracy was based out of various other coastal islands in the region--basically anywhere you could hide a boat and some dudes for a while. The pirates were a mixed bag as far as nationality went, like all pirates. Piracy was one of the few career paths open to someone who got kicked out of their village so you went where's would take you. A lot of the time who's a pirate vs who's a Chinese official gets kinda blurry as well. Though considering pirate fleets in the south China Sea could balloon to hundreds of ships and tens of thousands of men, it's perhaps unsurprising the Imperial bean-counters sometimes concluded it's just cheaper to make the pirate King/Queen a bloody Admiral than it is to build a fleet and hunt them down. Many pirates would rapidly shift allegiance between Imperial authorities, the Vietnamese Kingdom, European colonial powers, and Japan. One of the reasons piracy was so bad in the region was that despite trade between China/Japan/everywhere else being incredibly lucrative, it was also really tightly controlled. This encouraged smuggling. Smugglers couldn't rely on regular authorities for protection, and so were easy targets for scammers and small scale piratry. Smugglers would then form illicit organizations to help arm themselves and enforce contracts, organizations which often realized they could make even more money by branching out into other criminal activities. Chinese pirates were also incredibly gay. Whoole lot of careers started as cabin-boy and young lover of the previous pirate boss. Squalid fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 02:14
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Squalid posted:pirates were also incredibly gay Fixed that for you
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Mar 12, 2018 02:36
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So this is very much gay black hitler territory, but if there hadnt been purges of the red army in... the 30s?, How likely would've barbarossa been for the nazis? My very uninformed understanding is that they (germany) really picked the best possible timing to attack the ussr when they did and that it was only possible to completely kick in the front entrance because of inept commanders of the red army. I'm curious because it really seems like the nazis really were hoping for a france 2.0 with the ussr, and it only almost succeeded because of how poorly managed the army dealt with trying to organize a coherent defense and they only managed to do something worthwile as soon as they figured out how to do poo poo that an actually competent upper military command (i.e the red army pre-purges) were capable of.
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Mar 12, 2018 02:50
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Ah, so han chinese is used as we'd use "white" Yeah, it's a term applied in the present day to most of China's people in order to enforce the myth that China is a mostly homogenous nation. Traditionally, Imperial China usually divided people into the categories of civilized and uncivilized. If you used Hanzi, you were civilized, and if you didn't, you were uncivilized. This would evolve over time, especially with the Qing Dynasty, but it really came to prominence during the Xinhai Revolution and Western notions of racial theory and classification get introduced to China. It pretty much has become synonymous with greater Chinese nationalism and betrayers of China during WWII were even called Hanjian, which literally means "Han traitor," even if they weren't Han. Yoshiko Kawashima for instance was a Manchu princess adopted by a Japanese family but she was still considered to essentially be a race traitor, which is the exact connotation that title carries. Most non-Han Chinese minorities also tend to carry the same stigmas or otherness that native peoples have in the US, Canada, and Australia. They're always depicted as an oddity in a colorful costume, always dancing and smiling, and casual racism against them is super common. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 04:59
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Most non-Han Chinese minorities also tend to carry the same stigmas or otherness that native peoples have in the US, Canada, and Australia. They're always depicted as an oddity in a colorful costume, always dancing and smiling, and casual racism against them is super common. 
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Mar 12, 2018 05:43
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bloom posted:Can someone tell me what this armored car thing is and if they saw much use? wayne industries fell on hard times
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Mar 12, 2018 05:57
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Trin Tragula posted:Fixed that for you whole new meaning to 'arrrrrr'
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Mar 12, 2018 06:08
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Yeah, it's a term applied in the present day to most of China's people in order to enforce the myth that China is a mostly homogenous nation. Traditionally, Imperial China usually divided people into the categories of civilized and uncivilized. If you used Hanzi, you were civilized, and if you didn't, you were uncivilized. This would evolve over time, especially with the Qing Dynasty, but it really came to prominence during the Xinhai Revolution and Western notions of racial theory and classification get introduced to China. It pretty much has become synonymous with greater Chinese nationalism and betrayers of China during WWII were even called Hanjian, which literally means "Han traitor," even if they weren't Han. Yoshiko Kawashima for instance was a Manchu princess adopted by a Japanese family but she was still considered to essentially be a race traitor, which is the exact connotation that title carries. Funny you should bring this up as I was looking at some Chinese pirate biographies on wikipedia to refresh my memory and I ran across this weird anecdote about Chinese historians vandalizing a monument to one for being a race traitor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Zhi_(pirate) quote:In 2000, a monument was erected to Wang Zhi in his hometown of Huangshan City. In 2005, two Chinese professors defaced this monument, stating that Wang Zhi was a "race traitor".[6] However, Wang Zhi was only one of the more successful Chinese pirate-merchants working with Japanese during this period. The international character of wako makes them very similar to buccaneers of the West.
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Mar 12, 2018 06:09
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goatsestretchgoals posted:whole new meaning to 'arrrrrr' what do you think they used the peg leg for?
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Mar 12, 2018 06:19
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Mar 12, 2018 06:21
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Trin Tragula posted:Fixed that for you I thought pirates were less gay than regular navy, on account of them frequently allowing sufficiently-badass women to pirate as well.
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Mar 12, 2018 07:02
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The Lone Badger posted:I thought pirates were less gay than regular navy, on account of them frequently allowing sufficiently-badass women to pirate as well. gayer, probably
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Mar 12, 2018 07:05
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Don Gato posted:Reading Chinese sources, I've learned that whenever someone does something bad, they're <INSERT ETHNIC GROUP HERE> but if his cousin does something good, he's proudly held up as Chinese. There's a similar gag about top gear, noting that the moment a Scottish or Welsh person becomes famous or notable for anything good, they change to being from scotland or wales to being from the united kingdom.
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Mar 12, 2018 09:22
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Clarence posted:KRRC Chronicle 1918  The maps should be placed before the big part, I think. If it's all OK, I'd like to share the post on my blog. E: incidentally, RedBubble is having a 20% off sale, get some groggy shirts JcDent fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 09:32
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bloom posted:Thanks! I like it even more now that I know it's symmetrical. New thread title!?
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Mar 12, 2018 11:10
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Ensign Expendable posted:Radey's The Defense of Moscow 1941 outlines how the German offensive was already pretty hosed quite some time before winter set in. Jack is great. I remember his "9 O'Clock" (i.e., pointing to the left) column in S&T magazine, he made some very good points about the infestation of Wheraboos, even as far back as the late 70's. I met him and played a few tabletop wargames against him in the 90's when I lived in the Bay Area. He played a lot of Command Decision, a game that was popular at the time. He had a beautifully painted Soviet army. It was very well done, nicely detailed and kept in cases so they wouldn't get scratched up between games. In contrast he had a German army he'd made as a "OPFOR" army to loan out to potential opponents. They were painted with thick black spraypaint. When they were eliminated in the game, he's toss them across the table into their storage container, a cardboard box with the word "FASCISTS" scrawled on the side. Jack really knows his stuff, but make no mistake, he has his biases.
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Mar 12, 2018 15:47
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Cessna posted:In contrast he had a German army he'd made as a "OPFOR" army to loan out to potential opponents. They were painted with thick black spraypaint. When they were eliminated in the game, he's toss them across the table into their storage container, a cardboard box with the word "FASCISTS" scrawled on the side. Absolutely incredible 
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Mar 12, 2018 15:52
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Absolutely incredible Oh, agreed. I'm not saying this was a bad practice by any means! In every interaction I had with him, Jack was a friendly, outgoing person. I wish I still had the opportunity to get in the occasional wargame with him.
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Mar 12, 2018 15:54
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