Auspol March - Thread status: Embattled - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol March - Thread status: Embattled

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Did anidav not copy the whole article? That poo poo is extremely benign. All is says is that growth is beyond predictions, immigration pushes growth up hard when added to births and there have been mistakes in accommodating huge growth by government.

# ? Mar 11, 2018 23:56

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 21:56

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

JBP posted:

Did anidav not copy the whole article? That poo poo is extremely benign. All is says is that growth is beyond predictions, immigration pushes growth up hard when added to births and there have been mistakes in accommodating huge growth by government.

ergo all my problems are caused by immigrants

# ? Mar 12, 2018 00:12

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

if only it was possible to consider the political environment and subtext when considering a given piece of media, but such an advanced analysis is entirely beyond our meagre human faculties, alas

# ? Mar 12, 2018 00:14

Tasmantor: Aug 13, 2007; Horrid abomination

I know that "dunking" on JBP is all the rage but I'm curious how would an article outlining the same details be written without being perceived as an attack on immigrants?

# ? Mar 12, 2018 00:20

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Birdstrike posted:

ergo all my problems are caused by immigrants

This is presumptive and when you start being presumptive you are editorialising. Immigration and the resultant growth puts stress on services in cities. Maybe they should state that most immigrants are white (I presume that's still a fact) but outside of that what do you want?

# ? Mar 12, 2018 00:27

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Actually the Awful mobile app didn't let me copy the whole article. It hit some sort of character limit so I just copied the actual original paragraphs.

The recent thing with the ABC is that they post a story and the first half is the original article and then the second half is a bunch of paragraphs from articles they've posted previously with headings so the part I posted is the article which I could fit in the mobile app and the other half of the article is that linking to other micro articles thing they do.

Also even though the article continues to link to other factors I am pretty sure that the original portion will be used as a dog whistle in parliament soon. :bahgawd:

And I am extremely cautious at today's ABC anyway, they seem to be very odd these days and I can just picture Leigh Sales asking questions about immigration levels due to Four Corners.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 00:29

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

I can only imagine this being the ABC simply giving the government a ball to kick for points.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 00:30

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Tasmantor posted:

I know that "dunking" on JBP is all the rage but I'm curious how would an article outlining the same details be written without being perceived as an attack on immigrants?

No one dunks on me. I am the Charles Barkley of posting.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 00:34

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Birdstrike posted:

ergo all my problems are caused by ~~immigrants~~anime.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/us-north-korea-meeting-a-moment-of-truth/9538004

When did Micheal Kirby fall off a ladder and hit his head?

# ? Mar 12, 2018 00:38

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

JBP posted:

This is presumptive and when you start being presumptive you are editorialising. Immigration and the resultant growth puts stress on services in cities. Maybe they should state that most immigrants are white (I presume that's still a fact) but outside of that what do you want?

The piece is couched in a conservative mindset that the status quo is something we should maintain, and that to do this immigration needs to be reduced/stopped. For example in respect of population growth (read: immigration) the author says

quote:

It is going to mean big changes. We will all need to make choices, trade-offs, and compromises.

The �article� to some extent acknowledges the problems created by a failure to build appropriate infrastructure, but focusing on the population pressures invites the less-informed reader to believe that cutting immigration would fix everything.

You could easily write a piece highlighting the failure of governments of both parties and at all levels to plan and build infrastructure without making population growth (which is caused by immigration, remember) the central point.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 01:11

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Peter Dutton has an easy job just kick back and wait for the media to blame immigration then appear once a month on talk back radio

# ? Mar 12, 2018 01:32

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Waiting for a road to get built is a compromise. High density is a trade off. These are actions that the author can reasonably assume are a requirement given rapid population growth.

The main drive of the journalist to my mind is that we didn't model for such dramatic population growth and that's going to cause some growing pains for people.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 01:34

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

If people want to make it about race that's on them, but as I said most of our immigrants are traditionally white people. It might be worth throwing that in as a stat, but the proposition that population growth is creating problems with infrastructure in cities and we are not building new cities or dealing with it effectively is fair and reasonable.

E: I'm not saying you are wrong and there could have been more detail or exploration in the article, but I struggle to frame it as anti immigration.

JBP fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 12, 2018

# ? Mar 12, 2018 01:37

thatbastardken: Apr 23, 2010; A contract signed by a minor is not binding!

you're being too generous, 'immigration causing problems' is a dogwhistle for 'lazy browns are here to take your jobs/seat on the bus' and has been since greeks were declared white in the 60s. before that they didn't bother disguising it.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 01:59

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

The issue isn't that "immigration is causing problems", the issue is that "policies by the governments of the last 15 years are causing problems".

They've had high immigration without requisite spending and investment in infrastructure.

Saying immigration is a problem is the dogwhistle because it's framed as a fault of immigrants rather than a fault of governments who chose those specific policies that are causing these issues.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:16

thatbastardken: Apr 23, 2010; A contract signed by a minor is not binding!

yes?

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:21

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Immigration is a problem now though... We can't build poo poo fast enough and what gets built is poorly planned. That article says the immigration numbers we used were too conservative and now we have a bit of a mess in cities because there's not enough transport and infrastructure. If just saying immigration is now a dogwhistle, well that's the fault of the reader of this article consuming propaganda editorials and the fault of those publications.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:23

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

The previous Lib MP for Lindsay said in 2013 that refugees cause traffic congestion and now the ABC is presenting the dog-whistle as serious journalism.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:27

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

They do if you don't have enough roads. It's not simply fine to blame planning and previous policy for everything then do nothing to address it in the now. Unless you've got a time machine to fix the past, immigration is a stressor on cities and their ability to service growing populations.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:30

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

JBP posted:

They do if you don't have enough roads. It's not simply fine to blame planning and previous policy for everything then do nothing to address it in the now. Unless you've got a time machine to fix the past, immigration is a stressor on cities and their ability to service growing populations.

They specifically blamed refugees, not immigration as a whole.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:33

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

No it doesn't.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:36

Krabboss: Nov 11, 2016; MY HUSBAND'S PARSE IS BETTER THAN YOURS

I'm the people who think it's better to prevent skilled migrants from entering the country than it is to build roads because the migrants might be brown.

Too often have I examined the Twitter feeds of people who complain about immigration to find they're actually just racist. These arguments aren't being made in good faith and it's a mistake to acknowledge them.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:42

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

The article is anti-refugee because some mad bugger made an outlandish claim via SMH five years ago.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:43

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Stop arguing about politics in the Barnaby sex thread.

quote:

The unravelling of Barnaby Joyce

He's been described by colleagues as a loner, a genius, authentic, and a narcissist. Here's the story of how the former Nationals leader brought himself undone.

Ten days after news first broke of Barnaby Joyce's inter-office affair and the impending birth of a baby, he made a call to the ABC.

Politically, Joyce was already on the ropes, but he was fighting on and refusing to budge as Nationals leader.

Putting out spot-fires. Trying to get ahead of the story.

Joyce sounded stressed on the phone, saying he had been told there was another article coming about him, arguing he deserved the right of reply, the right to defend himself.

There was nothing in the works. He quickly hung up.

Weeks later, it was the ABC calling. This time, there was a story. But Joyce didn't respond.

Fourteen years earlier, Joyce cut a lonely figure in the virtually deserted Senate offices, spending his Friday afternoon working to the tick of the clock.

The freshly elected Queensland senator had hundreds of pages of legislation � covered in post-it notes and annotations � strewn in front of him.

He was poring over the detail of John Howard's controversial industrial relations reform, WorkChoices, concerned it would be damaging for ordinary Australians.

Joyce was fastidious about getting across the detail, and went to war with the Liberals on their policy.

In doing so, he made his mark as the man in the Coalition willing to put his neck on the line for his constituents.

And he became a household name.

From the moment Joyce ran for pre-selection, his personality has been king.

His predecessor Warren Truss recalls the day Joyce put himself forward in Queensland, in 2004.

Barnaby was Barnaby. He captured the mood of the place, and won without the support of the party hierarchy," Truss remembers.

But the "Barnaby" approach raised eyebrows when he arrived in Canberra.

The Nationals leader at the time, John Anderson (pictured below), was wary from the beginning.

"My style was very heavily weighted to organising things behind closed doors and presenting a unified front," Anderson explains.

"So I had concerns, the same as anyone who has one approach might have reservations about another person's approach."

And while Joyce has long claimed to be deeply devoted to fighting for the Aussie battler, his critics are convinced he's driven equally by a desire to be in the media spotlight.

"It's always been about him, not the broader community," another National Party elder, who didn't want to be named, told the ABC.

"He's never been part of the team. He's a loner."

But it was often in the National Party's interest for Joyce to be making headlines. And sometimes, loners become leaders.

Truss was regarded as an inclusive, calm and methodical leader. In his opinion, calling Barnaby Joyce a loner is "a bit unkind".

Asked whether descriptions of Joyce like "narcissist", "authentic" and "genius" ring true, he says they all "have an element of truth about them".

He admits that working with him was "always a challenge" but recalls how Joyce "mellowed" when he moved from the Senate to the House of Representatives.

"As he moved into leadership positions, he realised he couldn't be 'everything' and he became much more of a team player."

Joyce grew on Anderson too, who went on to chair his 2013 New England election campaign.

"He won my support as a person equipped to lead the National Party," Anderson says.

By the time Truss was ready to retire, he felt Joyce had become "much more disciplined" and noted the party room was behind him.

Joyce's first year as deputy prime minister went smoothly and was marked by the Nationals' success in the 2016 election.

The party picked up an extra seat and Joyce won a cut-throat battle against his political nemesis, Tony Windsor.

Joyce celebrated the victory on stage at a pub in Tamworth, with his wife Natalie and their four daughters.

Natalie Joyce had been a fixture for most of her husband's campaign, and she was there, along with his elderly parents, when he cast his vote at his old primary school, in Woolbrook.

The sun was shining and the sky was clear when the couple walked hand-in-hand towards the ballot box that day.

Internal National Party polling had shown he was a sure bet to win, but Joyce maintained modesty for the cameras and told reporters he was "confident, not cocky".

Joyce's victory in New England was convincing and left the Nationals riding high. But more than a year later, he was forced back to the Woolbrook ballot box by a High Court ruling on his Kiwi ancestry.

This time, the sky was grey, dark clouds loomed and the rain had started to fall. And his wife Natalie was nowhere to be seen.

Before the by-election, the Daily Telegraph had reported that there was turmoil in Joyce's private life and that one of his staff had moved offices.

Rumours had been circulating for months that he'd been sleeping with his media adviser Vikki Campion.

Some key Nationals MPs and party figures have subsequently told the ABC they knew there was an affair, including Truss, who says he found out about it in September. He learned about the baby in October.

Truss says "everyone seemed to know" about the affair during the by-election, but that voters were giving Joyce the "benefit of the doubt" because the campaign was so "bitter".

Windsor and his former adviser John Clements had been agitating on social media with cryptic and cutting attacks regarding Joyce's conduct.

Reporters were aware of their allegations, which hadn't been proven.

By the time Joyce cast his vote and fronted the media in Woolbrook, he looked tired and wrung-out.

Journalists stuck to peppering him with questions about his colleagues going rogue in Canberra, and other political matters.

After he'd driven away, one reporter turned to another and lamented:

Why the f*** aren't we asking him about his affair?"

But nobody in the press had proof or enough substance to justify such a question.

Campion first went to work for Joyce during the 2016 federal election campaign.

Some party insiders recall them looking "close" back then, but didn't think much of it at the time.

He was impressed with Campion's social media skills, and in August, brought her on to work in Canberra as his junior press secretary.

In the following months, a press gallery journalist overheard a drunken Campion lamenting that she was "in love with someone she shouldn't be" and that she "didn't know what to do".

The following February, two press gallery journalists out for a Sunday stroll in the Queanbeyan Gorge spotted Joyce and Campion on the track.

Then came the salacious rumour that Campion was pregnant with Joyce's child. It was ugly. The tabloids went on the hunt for photographs of the pair but published nothing.

Even if it was found that they were having an affair, what was the public interest?

The media struggled with how far the bar had to be set for newsworthy stories. As one reporter expressed it:

'Rooting' is a stretch � but 'rooting and rorting' would be fair game.

Despite enquiries and freedom of information requests being lodged, there was no evidence of rorting.

Here come the tears
Campion wasn't the only change Joyce made after the federal election. He shocked the press gallery by dumping his widely respected senior media adviser, Gerard McManus.

McManus was a straight-shooter who'd been hired to help Joyce make a smooth transition to the House of Representatives.

Sources close to Joyce's office suggest that with that accomplished, Joyce decided he needed someone more willing to invest in the 'politics'.

He hired LNP operative Jake Smith, who was known as a political player in Queensland.

It was a controversial choice.

Smith was a charming, smooth-talking spin doctor who spent his spare time collecting imperial menus from dinners hosted by monarchs like Queen Victoria, and cooking elaborate dishes such as stuffed boar's head and marzipan.

Truss was familiar with Smith's work in Queensland. He describes him as a "divisive character" who "manages to put a lot of people offside" but who has "grown up" since joining Joyce's office.

With his new staff in place, journalists noticed the deputy prime minister became less approachable, which seemed understandable given his high position in office.

But by early 2017, there were signs of trouble and chaos in his team. The woman tasked with keeping Joyce in line was his then-chief of staff, Diana Hallam.

She was known for running an efficient and competent office, but it was becoming increasingly difficult to manage her boss's situation.

About that time, Joyce and Campion were spotted amicably smoking cigarettes in a courtyard, where many members of Parliament had front-row seats to their increasing closeness.

People were talking. And staff in the office were stressed.

The ABC has subsequently been told that some staff members were tearful, as they feared the affair would be Joyce's downfall and they would lose their jobs.

Some Nationals have told the ABC privately that Joyce lacked focus during that time, and Truss says he's heard "in recent months" about the "chaos" in the office.

Truss, who was known for being extremely thorough as a cabinet minister, reveals "there was a view that developed, particularly in latter years, that Barnaby wasn't always on top of his brief".

But he notes that approach is "not uncommon in government", on both sides. Truss puts it like this:

Barnaby was certainly focused on the things that mattered to him, I don't think he was focused on detail for detail's sake.

Senior sources have told the ABC that by last year, it had become difficult to get Joyce to juggle his ministerial responsibilities.

Insiders say Hallam � along with other members of Parliament and senior Nationals staffers � had been encouraging Joyce to move Campion out of his office.

In April, Campion took a job in Queensland senator Matt Canavan's office, with a promotion that came with a reported pay rise of $5,000.

She had been well regarded in her role, but opponents of Joyce later questioned whether she was given favourable treatment because of their relationship.

Even the Prime Minister was forced to defend the appointment as proper.

By June, a frustrated Hallam had resigned and over the next six months, there were three other chiefs of staff in Joyce's office.

Smith was the last of them.

Front-page news
Last month, when the Daily Telegraph controversially splashed a photo of a pregnant Campion across its front page, the National Party appeared ill-prepared for the political and public furore.

The newspaper reported the couple was having an affair and expecting a baby in April.

Reporter Sharri Markson had previously emailed Joyce's media adviser Smith to offer an alternative � a sit-down feature with the couple. But the opportunity wasn't taken up.

Smith had managed to keep the story of the affair out of the media for months, but there were moments of oddness � particularly during the December by-election � that exposed Joyce's vulnerabilities and raised questions about his judgement.

The by-election could've been a major tipping point for Joyce.

He was under enormous personal and political pressure and there had been short-lived discussions within Nationals ranks about whether he was emotionally fit to run.

His 24-year marriage had recently collapsed, his job was on the line and Campion was almost five months pregnant.

But he pushed ahead with the campaign � a tour of New England drinking holes and local projects � and charmed local supporters by simply being "Barnaby".

Farmers at the Tamworth saleyards pledged to vote for him because he was a "straight talker" and a "good bloke".

But Joyce was about to make a big mistake.

The Nationals had been trying to run a low-key, local campaign but Joyce deviated from that strategy when he elected to fly to Canberra to attend an event hosted by benefactor, donor and billionaire Gina Rinehart.

He took to the stage to accept a giant novelty cheque for $40,000 from her for being a "Champion of Agriculture".

Agricultural leaders at the event were aghast. Rinehart's was a new prize that mystified many when it went to Joyce, the agriculture minister, rather than a hard-working farmer.

Joyce put out a statement the following morning saying he had "politely" declined the award.

But it fuelled a sentiment amongst some in the rural sector that Joyce � who has long fought to preserve the family farm � had sold out to the big end of town.

After the story about his affair broke, it was revealed Joyce was living rent-free, with Campion, in an apartment owned by another millionaire friend and National Party donor.

The straw that broke the camel's back
Believability had always been Joyce's trademark, but the news of his impending baby left some of his supporters uncomfortable.

The National Party prides itself on "family values", and Joyce was no exception.
Some in the party worried the Nationals would lose female voters. One former staffer said Joyce had lots of female fans but was also a "blokes' bloke".

He enjoyed a beer � or many � and at times would leap onto the bar to hold court.

In recent years, that mixture of travel and late nights was considered a problem internally.

A senior political operative working for the Government saw it as part of their job to make sure he was home early.

Despite Joyce's affair being the talk of the town and federal politics, he dug in and refused to resign as National Party leader.

His colleagues mulled anxiously over how to deal with him without a messy coup.

But the revelation a woman had made an allegation of sexual harassment and misconduct to the National Party against him was, in Joyce's own words, the "straw that broke the camel's back."

Prominent West Australian pastoralist Catherine Marriott, who had wanted her complaint and name kept private, was disappointed it was leaked to the media.

Marriott has since released a statement trying to explain her decision to make the complaint, and to answer those � including Joyce � who have criticised her for not taking the matter to police.

"This complaint was made not only to address the incident against me, it was about speaking up against inappropriate behaviour by people in powerful positions," Marriott wrote.

The additional stress of having to go through this publicly and with people's judgement is the exact reason people don't come forward.

Country Women's Association president Dorothy Coombe says it's unfair the complaint wasn't kept confidential, and that it's hard for one woman to bear the "brunt" in becoming the face of an issue.

In the wake of the complaint, deputy Nationals leader Bridget McKenzie also questioned why a criminal complaint had not been made, but she acknowledged a culture of sexual harassment in "hyper-masculine working environments" exists in some industries.

Since then, an internal party document has surfaced that records a phone call in which WA Nationals MP Terry Redman warns a colleague there could be up to 10 complaints against Joyce, ranging from "inappropriate behaviour" to "more serious allegations".

Joyce described Marriott's complaint as "spurious and defamatory" and the suggestion of others as "patently absurd".

In response to questions from the ABC about the Redman call, Joyce reiterated that anybody who had an allegation should take it to the police.

"That gives those people who put forward the allegation the right to pursue it and, most importantly, my right to defend it," he said.

Otherwise all we're doing is hanging these words out there and I think that's totally unfair.

But in the lead-up to Marriott's complaint and before his resignation, Joyce was frantic. His colleagues were anxious about his fragile and precarious situation.

It was then he made that stressed phone call to the ABC, demanding to know if a story was coming.

He did not reveal what story he was expecting. He just wanted to have his say if there was one. But at that stage there wasn't.

Shattered
Joyce has described the media attention surrounding his personal life as a "witch hunt". Back home in his electorate and across the country, there are people who agree wholeheartedly with that.

Stock and station agent Patrick Purtle is a New England resident and Nationals supporter who gave a glowing reference for Joyce ahead of last year's by-election.

"I think Barnaby's got a level of fair-dinkumness about him, if you like," he told the ABC at the Tamworth saleyards in October.

For all the stuff you see come out of Canberra, there's one bloke who seems to remain relevant to the people.

Purtle now admits that some of that lustre has faded.

"I'm 101 per cent disappointed," he says.

"Plenty of blokes backed him to the hilt, me included."

He says some people had felt a "lack of respect" for voters in the way things were handled, and it was a "great shame".

"He's still a bloody great politician, his ability to cut through," he says.

I'm just disappointed that someone I see as a great advocate for the bush has had his position terminated. His ability to make change for the bush has been affected 10-fold.

One farmer privately said Joyce had revealed himself to be a hypocrite � conjuring up the suggestion he's all hat, no cattle.

But Purtle says there's still a lot of support for the local member, while acknowledging it's been tempered by recent events.

"I guess you're only ever as good as your last game," he says.

"It will be hard to see him come back with the same authenticity now."

Joyce � and other senior party figures � haven't ruled out a comeback, but the chances look slim.

Some Nationals the ABC has spoken to remain disappointed and say they'll do everything they can to keep him strapped to the backbench.

And while he's apologised to his party room for the mess he's caused, some critics feel he hasn't technically apologised for his behaviour.

They're furious he has repeatedly raised his head in the media, rather than keeping a low profile.

Party elders like Truss have watched Joyce's career collapse and note he's become increasingly erratic in recent weeks.

"To sum it up, I've got a lot of respect for Barnaby," Truss says, before adding that "impressed is too strong a word".

"He's never been a great listener, never particularly willing to embrace other ideas. But all that had mellowed and I'm shattered it's happened like this."

Now the party has to start over, with Michael McCormack as its new low-key leader. He'll have to manage deep divisions, whilst trying to raise his own profile.

Loyalty and unity are the values at the heart of the National Party.

But one man managed to almost shatter that, derailing the Government's agenda for weeks, and creating agony for the Nationals family as well as his own.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-12/barnaby-joyce-how-the-former-nationals-leader-came-undone/9496756

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:47

Mr Chips: Jun 27, 2007; Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

hmm yes it's the 38,742 refugee visas granted between 2011 and 2016 that are making Australia full, not the > 1 million permanent and long term visa arrivals who came in the same time

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:48

GoldStandardConure: Jun 11, 2010; I have to kill fast
and mayflies too slow; Pillbug

JBP posted:

The article is anti-refugee because some mad bugger made an outlandish claim via SMH five years ago.

its probably more to do with the fact that the background level of political discourse has been anti-refugee since about 2001.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:48

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

GoldStandardConure posted:

its probably more to do with the fact that the background level of political discourse has been anti-refugee since about 2001.

No everything must be considered without any context! Or else how else can we be purely rational randian perfectmen.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:52

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

hooman posted:

No everything must be considered without any context! Or else how else can we be purely rational randian perfectmen.

Here's some context, the government has stopped the boats, therefore all immigration is entirely legitimate to cities.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:54

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Sorry I said the bad immigration word, I mean population movement paradigms or some equally Rudd poo poo.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:55

GoldStandardConure: Jun 11, 2010; I have to kill fast
and mayflies too slow; Pillbug

JBP posted:

Here's some context, the government has stopped the boats, therefore all immigration is entirely legitimate to cities.

yeah but thats still too much, 100% Juche Now

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:56

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Who wore it worse?

# ? Mar 12, 2018 02:58

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

It's mad poo poo to link that article to refugees when the targets of any malignant home-grown Australian is going to be Chinese and Indians on PRs or student visas who are perceived to be choking cities. Anyone that links it to refugees is even dumber than them.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:02

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

JBP posted:

Here's some context, the government has stopped the boats, therefore all immigration is entirely legitimate to cities.

I think you're arguing with the wrong person since I never said anything about refugees.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:02

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

hooman posted:

I think you're arguing with the wrong person since I never said anything about refugees.

Fair enough but I don't think simply saying immigration is a dogwhistle in the context of that article is fair. I don't think the word requires a massive caveat around it without being automatically a dogwhistle.

Others mentioned refugees and obviously read a different article to the boring one that was posted itt.

E: first sentence didn't make sense

JBP fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Mar 12, 2018

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:05

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

Who wore it worse?

Wow, age has not been kind to Carmen Sandiego

You Am I fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 12, 2018

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:07

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Also that post was more a general response to people conflating city immigration with refugees despite refugees being officially contained on jail island by the government.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:08

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

My point in bringing that up is that in an environment where �refugees cause traffic� has already been used as a dog whistle, �immigration causes traffic� is either a dog whistle in itself or will be used as one.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:12

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

The journalist isn't responsible for other people misusing a basic statement of fact that immigration to cities is stressing infrastructure. Even if it was surrounded by caveats and further scrutiny they'd cherry pick it the same as everything else that goes through the right wing fact laundering machine.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:16

gucci bane: Oct 27, 2008

Calling everything that could potentially have a racial context a dog whistle as if that inherently means something is some lazy disingenuous poo poo.

It's worth pointing out, but once it's pointed out the discussion should quickly move to the actual merits of the argument.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:20

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 21:56

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Just call it Population Growth or whatever and move on. They're right that there's simply not enough infrastructure to go around, and it's impacting young people born in Australia the worst, what with having no jobs and no homes and all.

# ? Mar 12, 2018 03:30

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol March - Thread status: Embattled

«‹›93 »