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Georgia Peach posted:Freep: Django Unchained revenge squads I love this post so much. Fuckwad has no clue how much food comes from California.
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Mar 12, 2018 11:35
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It bears repeating: the South will rise again! ...scratch itself, sniff a couple times, then flop back on the couch and put on "Survivor".
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Mar 12, 2018 11:41
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Have I bored the gently caress out of everyone, or does anyone have lingering questions before I shut up about insurgency and get back to posting freepage? I enjoy the insurgency posting  It's interesting to read.
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Mar 12, 2018 13:20
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Mods, change my name to Pox Confederate.
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Mar 12, 2018 13:55
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Alter Ego posted:It bears repeating: the South will rise again! "Ey baby?!....Grab me a beer, NASCAR's on"
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Mar 12, 2018 15:33
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SocketWrench posted:"Ey baby?!....Grab me a beer, NASCAR's on" *goes on computer and posts on Free Republic about how liberals are lazy pussies who will be the first to die in the glorious MAGAlution*
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Mar 12, 2018 16:15
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Even if Colonel Crazy decides to take his whole unit over to the Rebels, at the first whiff of mutiny the base commander is going to have MPs chucking thermite grenades into tank engines to render them useless to mutineers, putting his most loyal troops guarding all the armories, and calling for air support. I know nothing about the military, is this really a response you can confidently predict? (Not that I’ve ever bought any prediction that a substantial portion of the military would defect to a rebellion, either.)
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Mar 12, 2018 16:32
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raminasi posted:I know nothing about the military, is this really a response you can confidently predict? (Not that I’ve ever bought any prediction that a substantial portion of the military would defect to a rebellion, either.) Soldiers are sworn to defend the Constitution and the American people. Obviously it'll vary in how loyal individual soldiers are to the government, but the officers who could make and enforce this kind of order are the least likely to say "gently caress you dad" and join a farmer's revolution to topple the US government. They get to that point generally by being career soldiers who plan on staying in for a long time, rather than joining for benefits and bailing once their minimum time is up. Barracks regularly get locked down because of a single piece of equipment going missing or someone getting in a drunken car crash while heading back to base from the bar at 2:00 AM. If there was a serious threat of soldiers mutinying, you can bet your bottom dollar that there would be armed MPs keeping those doors nice and locked. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 16:40
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Lockdown fuckery is a favorite subject for the US Army WTF Moments! page, and that's just for something like "someone misplaced their laser sight they never use" or "night vision device fell off of soldier's helmet in the woods somewhere, so ~400 people get to spend an extra week in the field looking for the drat thing".
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Mar 12, 2018 16:48
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I think I was reacting specifically to the rather poetic picture painted of MPs destroying equipment like that to keep it out of rebel hands. Which now that I type it out doesn’t sound weird at all - “break our poo poo so enemies can’t steal it” seems like a pretty normal military thing. I just found the image of a base commander telling his loyalist troops to grenade tanks so that Colonel Redhat’s mutineers can’t get his hands on them kind of striking.
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Mar 12, 2018 16:51
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raminasi posted:I know nothing about the military, is this really a response you can confidently predict? (Not that I’ve ever bought any prediction that a substantial portion of the military would defect to a rebellion, either.) I'm pretty sure they'd stave off hucking thermite grenades until it was clear the defense was going to break because destroying million dollar pieces of equipment as a first step is a real dumb idea
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Mar 12, 2018 17:00
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raminasi posted:I think I was reacting specifically to the rather poetic picture painted of MPs destroying equipment like that to keep it out of rebel hands. Which now that I type it out doesn’t sound weird at all - “break our poo poo so enemies can’t steal it” seems like a pretty normal military thing. I just found the image of a base commander telling his loyalist troops to grenade tanks so that Colonel Redhat’s mutineers can’t get his hands on them kind of striking. Spiking your guns on a retreat so the enemy can't use them against you has been a thing in warfare for roughly as long as guns have.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:20
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Georgia Peach posted:Freep: Django Unchained revenge squads What’s telling is that even in these survivalist fantasies the only thing that is better is the amount of power they have over others. Everything else is objectively worse. If society goes to poo poo and there’s a civil war, Coca Cola becomes questionable water. Maybe you have meat. Nope on the sugary foods. Good luck with electricity and gas. The guns and bullets are now homemade.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:20
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Not to mention there're ALWAYS collaborators.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:01
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Lote posted:What’s telling is that even in these survivalist fantasies the only thing that is better is the amount of power they have over others. Everything else is objectively worse. If society goes to poo poo and there’s a civil war, Coca Cola becomes questionable water. Maybe you have meat. Nope on the sugary foods. Good luck with electricity and gas. The guns and bullets are now homemade.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:17
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I really do wish someone could simulate this in a wargame and put it up on SA, because I would play it with goons in a heartbeat.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:18
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I think you guys are being weird.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:21
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Jay Rust posted:I think you guys are being weird. Join the revolution. Make your own insulin. Arm your Hoveround.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:22
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:How the gently caress is he counting? The entire rural population of the United States, from babies to geriatrics, is 60 million. There is no loving way that more than a quarter of them are fighting age and healthy enough to fight. The 3% claim is entirely a myth deriving from a severe undercounting of the Continental Army's regular strength at the end of the war to claim that about 80k served in total. It's based on postwar pension claims that don't even consider all regular units, and make no account whatsoever for the various state militias which fought but weren't included on Continental Army lists for various reasons, nor do they include the Continental Navy, Marines, or other state forces. Support personnel, both official and informal, are also left out of the counting in reckonings that result in the 3% claim. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 20:25
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chitoryu12 posted:I really do wish someone could simulate this in a wargame and put it up on SA, because I would play it with goons in a heartbeat.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:25
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The statistic with the Revolution is that a third was for Revolution, a third neutral, and a third were Loyalist. The other reason that open civil war couldn’t happen is because it would upset the status quo. You’re telling me that people would be more likely to take up arms rather than move to Wyoming / Montana / some more red state? That doesn’t make any sense. It was precursor to the Civil War with bleeding Kansas but you aren’t seeing that. In fact, people are continuing to move to the cities.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:48
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Captain_Maclaine posted:The 3% claim is entirely a myth deriving from a severe undercounting of the Continental Army's regular strength at the end of the war to claim that about 80k served in total. It's based on postwar pension claims that don't even consider all regular units, and make no account whatsoever for the various state militias which fought but weren't included on Continental Army lists for various reasons, nor do they include the Continental Navy, Marines, or other state forces. Support personnel, both official and informal, are also left out of the counting in reckonings that result in the 3% claim. Cool, I was just using a working number out of popular culture. I can go google around for some more legit stats, but do you happen to have any examples of percentages of people who were actively armed fighters in a given insurgency? Wikipedia is telling me the IRA had roughly 10,000 people (it doesn't distinguish in what roles, just full "members") over the course of a 29yr war. So even if we pretend that all 10,000 of them were in the IRA at some single point in time, that's 1% of the population of Northern Ireland. But again that's a largely urban insurgency that didn't seek to seize ground, but to force a political settlement through sapping the UK's political will, which more or less worked. EDIT: The Taliban is less than 1% of Afghanistan, and largely confined to one ethnic group that's less than half of the population, but they're managing to control big chunks of rural territory even when most of NATO showed up to play. "Being a total rear end pain" is absolutely fundamental to insurgency. raminasi posted:I think I was reacting specifically to the rather poetic picture painted of MPs destroying equipment like that to keep it out of rebel hands. Which now that I type it out doesn’t sound weird at all - “break our poo poo so enemies can’t steal it” seems like a pretty normal military thing. I just found the image of a base commander telling his loyalist troops to grenade tanks so that Colonel Redhat’s mutineers can’t get his hands on them kind of striking. I picked a "dramatic yet plausible" example because we're having fun, but it's by no means completely silly. Hell, in Iraq the US forces would routinely burn/blow/thermite Humvees and trucks that were repairable but not easy to get back to base, rather than risk that Iraqis would rush out while we were away getting a recovery vehicle, and tow them to a garage for repair. I'm vaguely aware I've read examples like in African coups and whatnot, but for just an easy go-to the Soviets used to love doing this poo poo before seizing a country that was heavily dependent on their "mentorship". quote:The ruse was simple - recall all Afghan army tanks and tracked vehicles for modifications during the days shortly before the invasion. This effectively removed all armoured resistance from the Afghan army because most of the Afghan armour was in maintenance shops and motor pools with their engines inoperable when the Russians arrived quote:Repeating a trick used in the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia, they had Afghan soldiers turn in live ammunition and take blanks for a training exercise, remove batteries from some tanks 'for winterization', and take the firing pins from other ... So the Soviets didn't destroy the gear, since they expected to be on top of the pile in a matter of days and didn't want to have to re-gift it to the Afghans all over again, but they had a specific plan to remove or disable needed equipment to cripple resistance. That's on a totally optional outreach mission; if a military base is actually facing an existential threat to the nation I have no problem believing they'll completely destroy equipment just to prevent it from falling into enemy hands. If you're a general, you would *way* rather get called in front of Congress to explain why you ruined a bunch of tanks, rather than why a bunch of yahoos with Confederate flags are driving all your armor across the Nevada border. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 21:36
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chitoryu12 posted:I really do wish someone could simulate this in a wargame and put it up on SA, because I would play it with goons in a heartbeat. I have no idea how to administer such a game, but I'd certainly be willing to help write scenarios or lay out ground rules or whatever if some more Dungeonmaster-skilled goon wants to run some kind of wargame thread for this. That said, it'd be hard for it not to turn into just a "LOL gently caress MAGA" circlejerk, but also it'd be really hard to find viable ways for the Red Zones to actually hold their own for any length of time. This was ages ago in the early internet, but I always liked the idea from some early blogger: "if you want to cause mass chaos in a region, find twelve guys who support your cause, who don't know each other, and convince each one that once per day they should shoot a power transformer with a hunting rifle from a distance."
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Mar 12, 2018 21:44
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These scenarios where they have massed militia and where they proceed the total dominance of the conventional military power are just wacky. IRA spread around, and struck swiftly and unpredictably to achieve its goals, and only in such way could achieve moderate success. If they’d use massed amounts of ”patriots” ,like in these fever dreams, in Belfast, the carnage British tanks and rifle squads would wreak on them would’ve been some Rorke’s Drift style poo poo. The asymmetrical long form insurgency absolutely demands that you don’t engage the enemy in conventional means. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 21:48
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Vahakyla posted:These scenarios where they have massed militia ignore the total dominance of the conventional military power. IRA spread around, and struck swiftly and unpredictably. I've seen rightists literally posit poo poo that sounds like it's out of the Napoleonic Wars; despite many presumably claiming to be military buffs they appear to have zero sense of context. Without even trying to exaggerate, their fantasies involve scenarios like two groups of opponents hidden in ditches an opposite ends of a cornfield. One ditch has Jamal LaPanther spraying rounds from a Glock held sideways, along with gender studies Professor Tweedpants making a yucky face as he handles a (gasp) gun and whimpering when it recoils. Then in the opposite trench is a redhat in RealTree camo with a bolt-action scoped Remington 700, and he shot Expert in the Marines and bags his deer every year, and he headshoots the enemy and fist-pumps. That's not a made-up example, that's just a pastiche of individual things they say. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 22:03
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I have no idea how to administer such a game, but I'd certainly be willing to help write scenarios or lay out ground rules or whatever if some more Dungeonmaster-skilled goon wants to run some kind of wargame thread for this. I think it would be a neat experiment to see just how long the Red forces could hold out and how much damage they could do while dealing with issues like supply lines, lack of resources from urban areas and imported goods (like refined fuels or electronics), and medical supplies. You'd probably need a custom game for it to allow for things like civilian effects. Also figuring out which faction gets Trump as their NPC leader first and whether or not he switches sides. Roll randomly on an Alzheimer's table for decisions.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:07
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It’s also a dead giveway when they just jerk off onto the absolute minutiae of firearms and attachments, without worrying about their socks and sleeping systems, or ruck packing, or rain gear. The British SAS could trudge through Borneo, Himalaya, or Gobi, and through magic have all their tricked out Daniel Defence M4s replaced with Wooden stock ruger mini-14s, and not a whole lot of things would actually change with their odds of mission success.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:11
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Vahakyla posted:The British SAS could trudge through Borneo, Himalaya, or Gobi, and through magic have all their tricked out Daniel Defence M4s replaced with Wooden stock ruger mini-14s, and not a whole lot of things would actually change with their odds of mission success. In a substantial number of US conflicts, you could replace everything below the medium machinegun with an Etch-and-Sketch without really affecting the strategic picture. It'd affect things tactically because nobody is going to kick down the door with a Hasbro toy in their hand, but it doesn't make much difference for the part where you park your humvees in hill defilade, ma-deuces for position defense, and call in airstrikes.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:22
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Vahakyla posted:If they’d use massed amounts of ”patriots” ,like in these fever dreams, in Belfast, the carnage British tanks and rifle squads would wreak on them would’ve been some Rorke’s Drift style poo poo. The outcomes of those is why the IRA focused on the ambush/car bomb/targeted assassination side of the ledger when they were in business.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:22
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No you see it won't happen on battle fields, after the urban cities are depleted from food and resources the urban population will roam into the freep hinterlands and try to raid their compounds for food where Freepers will pick all of them off from tree stands like zombies in the walking dead. e: Basically they'll try to go galt, run out of meds and die without a shot fired.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:24
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:In a substantial number of US conflicts, you could replace everything below the medium machinegun with an Etch-and-Sketch without really affecting the strategic picture. It'd affect things tactically because nobody is going to kick down the door with a Hasbro toy in their hand, but it doesn't make much difference for the part where you park your humvees in hill defilade, ma-deuces for position defense, and call in airstrikes. Yeah but it’s a lot harder to masturbate to a protractor and a radio, than it is to a 6-position crane stock for an AR. But my thoughts, exactly.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:25
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All that being said, an actual Redhat insurgency that wasn't pant-on-head retarded as Freep would be a serious major rear end-pain for the US government. -- Urban/town sniping campaign at low-level representatives of Federal authority (postmen, USDA inspectors, anyone who ever walked out of a FBI or ATF regional office) -- Urban/town bombing campaign, which is slightly complicated by the fact that such is exactly what we've (theoretically) become more vigilant about since 9/11 -- Extended sabotage campaign to damage equipment at key logistical centers, especially those supporting Federal interests. Really, if there's a Baby Redhat in the US military, you don't need him to defect, you want to keep him there to make maps of sensitive areas of the base, help plan an equipment heist, etc. Literally one MP and one Armorer could, with careful scheduling, allow a panel van full of hicks to steal a few hundred weapons and get back off base. But at that point you're still looking at: 1) Quasi-effective low-level insurgency in that it's a massive pain in the rear end. 2) ??? 3) ??? 4) ??? 5) Political settlement to... what exactly? Put prayer back in schools? Make Congress disproportionately white? TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 22:32
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Cool, I was just using a working number out of popular culture. I can go google around for some more legit stats, but do you happen to have any examples of percentages of people who were actively armed fighters in a given insurgency? Yeah no I didn't figure you personally bought into the mythology, but since one of the rightist militia movements literally calls itself the Three Percenters based on it I tend to react whenever I see that falsehood propagated. As to the American Revolution, percentage involved shifts from state to state and across time, making it difficult to nail down a hard and fast "X% were rebels against the British, Y% were actively loyalist, and Z% tried to keep their heads down and wait to see which way the wind blew." The (very rough, not particularly correct) figure most people use to be less wrong about the thing is about a third each, but that's at best only a very diluted image of the overall picture and likely to be badly off if you drill down to, say, New York under occupation, or South Carolina during the backcountry campaign. Plinkey posted:No you see it won't happen on battle fields, after the urban cities are depleted from food and resources the urban population will roam into the freep hinterlands and try to raid their compounds for food where Freepers will pick all of them off from tree stands like zombies in the walking dead. Not for the first time we see that Freeper's expectations are shaped largely by the Turner Diaries.
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Mar 12, 2018 23:14
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3rd Explosion in Austin After 2 Package Bombs Linkedquote:To: Morgana Now who would possibly want to harm Black people?  quote:To: Morgana Leave it to Freep to make the dumbest takes possible. quote:To: Morgana quote:To: GnuThere quote:To: GnuThere Dear god Freep is trying to meme! quote:To: a fool in paradise quote:To: a fool in paradise Now I'm not saying it was the Muzzies but... quote:To: Gamecock poo poo, the signals are crossing! It's gonna overload!  quote:To: goldstategop something something real racists... quote:To: Morgana quote:To: rktman What if they're one of the good ones? quote:To: Gamecock That username is well chosen. quote:To: Morgana How convenient indeed. quote:To: Morgana quote:To: a fool in paradise
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Mar 13, 2018 01:23
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A movie about a gay teenager exists! Let's see what Freep has to say about THAT! ‘Love, Simon’ Stars Say Gay Teen Romance Will Save Lives quote:To: EdnaMode quote:To: EdnaMode quote:To: EdnaMode quote:To: faithhopecharity quote:To: EdnaMode quote:To: EdnaMode quote:To: aquila48
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Mar 13, 2018 01:25
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I want to know what other gay movies Neoliberalnot has been watching, that's awful specific.
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Mar 13, 2018 01:58
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Bombs are illegal, YOU DUMB FUCKS. Do they think the solution is to make them legal?
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Mar 13, 2018 01:58
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Lord Hydronium posted:Bombs are illegal, YOU DUMB FUCKS. Do they think the solution is to make them legal? It's just proof that the law doesn't work, duh  nevermind the fact that it's actually pretty hard to make a bomb because most of the materials you need to do it are restricted, such as the fertilizer used in oklahoma city
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Mar 13, 2018 02:21
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Lord Hydronium posted:Bombs are illegal, YOU DUMB FUCKS. Do they think the solution is to make them legal? I usually go the opposite route and mock them. “If this wasn’t a bomb free zone this wouldn’t have happened.” “Only a good guy with a bomb can stop bad guys with bombs.” “We should give everybody bombs as a deterrent”
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Mar 13, 2018 02:26
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quote:I am long past objecting to homosexuals living together. We have a pair of them nearby and they don’t disturb or hurt anybody. They can answer for their conduct when Judgment comes, so be it. I am quite willing to live and let live. drat, this post gave me whiplash. "Personally after getting to know them I think gays are fine, but won't *somebody* please think of the people that still hate them?" EDIT: in the PYF "favorite The Onion article" thread, people occasionally post Duffel Blog articles (a military satire blog). Another goon asked if it was at all critical of the military, or just "one funny thing our CO does!" inside jokes. I dug through the last few months, and drat but DB hates Trump and Kushner (loves Mattis though), things the Afghan War is pointless, etc. And I wanted to see what their stance was on trans troops, and a cursory glance seems that they're pretty okay with it. So a satire blog aimed almost exclusively at current and former military servicemembers is way, way, way more liberal than Freep. If anyone is curious, I collected the last few months of government-critical headlines, and a scatter of pro-trans ones: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3472403&perpage=40&pagenumber=209#post482099933 TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 02:26
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