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But yeah there are two events in this episode that would have been major events in most other games. But here are pretty much footnotes that are not even elaborated on. First Prompto being revealed as a clone, robot thing. Second. The Battle with the Emperor and his death.
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Mar 13, 2018 03:01
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I want to know why the Chancellor of the Empire dresses like a hobo.
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Mar 13, 2018 03:12
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Night10194 posted:I want to know why the Chancellor of the Empire dresses like a hobo. Given his comment about being immortal when Shiva froze him, I'm going to guess that he ran out of fucks about a thousand years ago and this whole thing is just an elaborate "well if I can't die I'll just kill everyone."
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Mar 13, 2018 04:00
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Night10194 posted:I want to know why the Chancellor of the Empire dresses like a hobo. Look forward to finding out in Episode Ardyn, coming in 2018.
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Mar 13, 2018 04:08
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Just to be clear, Prompto is not an MT. Prompto's line in Japanese had him saying he's from Niflheim, but the English translation changes it to have Prompto say he's "one of them" right after talking about MTs, which confusingly makes it sound like he's an MT. In reality: quote:Most men are born; but some are created for a special purpose—and Prompto is one such man. Artificially generated from the genes of mad scientist Verstael Besithia, he was initially intended to serve as a test subject for the empire's magitek experiments. The unstable scientist's plans wet awry, however, when a Lucian spy operating on a hot tip absconded with baby Prompto and entrusted him to a foster family in Insomnia. So Prompto's unwillingness to tell anybody was just because he's technically an enemy and the underwhelming reaction was because who gives a poo poo. VV There were actually two typos in the passage on the wiki but I guess I only caught the one. Kaasen fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 05:22
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Was that a typo on the wiki or did Prompto's daddy really specialize in "man science"? I'm also not sure how that would explain why he can just open any door in that dumb building if he escaped before they did anything besides birth him. Do they just implant their clone trooper babies with magic key microchips? And why was that dumb bastard's throne in the middle of the loving server room? Along with an unnamed and hitherto unmentioned machine that somehow disables Noctis' superpowers that doesn't matter because we'll never hear about it again. gently caress this game. gently caress. 
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Mar 13, 2018 05:32
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Hel posted:The "it doesn't matter where and to who you're born " thing really doesn't work when the main character is a prince and has special powers because of his bloodline & his dead girlfriend has the "blood of the oracle". It felt like the devs thought that "of course we need message in our game, just ignore how the entire rest of the game undermines it". Were Noctis and Lunafreya supposed to make the Kwisatz Haderach?
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Mar 13, 2018 06:17
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Bocc Kob posted:And why was that dumb bastard's throne in the middle of the loving server room? The throne room was the MT storage room. This bit from another walkthrough I linked earlier shows Noct's point of view from after they split up and a big fight in that room: (worth it just for the horribly directed voice acting by Noct) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnX9jCxZVVU&t=3489s And, yes, half the MT's who leap out of their cocoons immediately fall down dead for no reason. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 06:45
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Hope you liked our big Prompto ~plot twist~! You should be at least a bit emotionally invested in this game yet...Right guys?
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Mar 13, 2018 06:48
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Prompto is a lot more likeable in the anime shorts, heck all of the bros are way better written actually. Im guessing a lot more poo poo is explained in Prompto's DLC thing, but I think I like the "man science" typo better than mad science. So his dad is basically Hojo, got it.
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Mar 13, 2018 06:51
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"Verstael Besithia" I feel like these names are the result of someone just inventing interesting-sounding names to a Japanese ear. This game is just so bad. How the heck is it #3 on Steam's best-sellers?
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Mar 13, 2018 07:35
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Gorilla Salad posted:The throne room was the MT storage room. Yeah but, regardless, there's no reason for a throne with king robes on it to be there except for, "we're idiots and don't know how to make video games or tell stories". It's just a throne there for no reason! Any time this game says or does anything, I feel like Sideshow Bob stumbling through a field of rakes. Cup Noodle sidequest, thwack! Prompto's a clone baby, thwack! Dramatic car death scene, thwack! Bocc Kob fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 09:16
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Teledahn posted:"Verstael Besithia" Most storytelling in games is bad, I mean look at the Metal Gear games and how a lot of people hold up Hideo Kojima as a some kind of master storyteller. Kojimas games are mostly repeating or calling back to earlier stuff, even his final game MGS5 is mostly a repeat of MGS4 with some words swapped. Now look at Final Fantasy and how it constantly reuses names and characters, you have Shiva, Cid , Chocobos et.al. It basically a low key Ready Player One, where it's calling back to things you like as a short cut to making you like this thing. Hel fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 09:40
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Speaking of, did they ever clarify why we've been collecting god pokemon because we kind of killed a city over that. Was it to fight the Empire because if it was lol.
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Mar 13, 2018 13:57
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Bocc Kob posted:Yeah but, regardless, there's no reason for a throne with king robes on it to be there except for, "we're idiots and don't know how to make video games or tell stories". It's just a throne there for no reason! Any time this game says or does anything, I feel like Sideshow Bob stumbling through a field of rakes. Cup Noodle sidequest, thwack! Prompto's a clone baby, thwack! Dramatic car death scene, thwack! Oh, no arguments there. It's ridiculous on all levels. If you do the Noct section you discover that there are empty clothes all over the place. I'm guessing all the troops, and the emperor, turned into demons and vanished into the demon dimension balls out naked before coming back and assaulting Our Heroes. None of this seems to be explained at all, of course. Maybe there's stuff about it in one of the DLCs which came out months after the game was released, so I can only imagine how confusing all this was when it first came out.
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Mar 13, 2018 14:18
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Teledahn posted:"Verstael Besithia" Also, the gratuitous use of pompous language in this game gets loving grating on the ear after a while.
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Mar 13, 2018 14:50
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Imagine if Ignis insisted on calling recipes "recettes." Come to think of it, I guess he won't be coming up with any of those anymore? Haven't seen a campsite in an entire continent. Anyway, isn't this whole thing a giant elevator shaft or something? Let's assume that Emperor notademon just had his throne on its own elevator, to move it to the most dramatic position. That's fun, and god knows this game could use it. Especially since I looked at a bit before the linked bit in that playthrough. Apparently being notcis means suddenly this is a survival horror game. With stealth and chancellor hobo springing utterly pointless traps on you that are [shockingly] resolved by heading down the corridor towards the exclamation point. Oh, also he would not shut up for a goddamn minute. Gosh, I bet that would be vaguely menacing or something, if it wasn't just 40 minutes of him yammering on while you're trying not to get murdered by skeletons and goblins. They really should have split their grand vision into like, five different drat games. Or, since they're apparently going back and filling the gaps with dlc, they should have just made it episodic and release actual finished chapters, if they couldn't bear to compromise their grand vision.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:02
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Night10194 posted:Speaking of, did they ever clarify why we've been collecting god pokemon because we kind of killed a city over that. Something something, blessing of the gods, something something.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:48
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Ignis got a new special from going loving blind - you're telling me that being a robot wizard clone thing doesn't give you any mechanical benefits?
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Mar 13, 2018 15:58
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Mar 13, 2018 16:59
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Here are two really simple changes that would make this whole Prompto thing way more impactful! 1. Play up the fact that Prompto is only a royal guard because he's Noctis' best friend and does not have the qualifications or abilities that Ignis and Gladio have, and thus they just sort of barely tolerate him being dragged along because it makes Noctis happy. There were undertones of it in the beginning of the game, but it kinda got dropped. Playing this up in a big way cements Prompto's outsider status in the group even prior to learning he's an evil empire designer baby, and would make Noctis' "Have I ever cared about your status before? No because you're my friend" speech more meaningful. 2. Blind Prompto instead of Ignis, and have Noctis and Gladio switch roles in regards to helping/ignoring the blind man during the following segment. Noctis is slowing down to try and help his friend, while Gladio is annoyed this guy who was already kind of out of his depth has become an active burden and is hindering their progress. This also makes Noctis' rant at Ardyn-Prompto more impactful when he claims everything is "his" fault for following and Prompto thinks Noctis means him. Also it's way more dramatically ironic for the photographer to be blinded, both specifically for Prompto, and for the group as a whole in that the pictures were a source of levity throughout the journey, and their sudden and violent removal informs the audience the tone is shifting to something darker. Ugh what is this game doing to me why am I trying to improve garbage.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:24
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Hel posted:Most storytelling in games is bad, I mean look at the Metal Gear games and how a lot of people hold up Hideo Kojima as a some kind of master storyteller. In kojimas defense, he's very good at (or at least was, back with the metal gear games people actually liked and some of his adventure game stuff) at writing stories that play to the strengths of the medium of video games. it's easy to just say "man video game stories are so bad if something like this can be considered high quality", and while that's not wrong it's kinda missing the forest for the trees because it's like judging a very visual heavy movie by the standards of a radio drama. How this relates to final fantasy is that the story in this game is not only not really playing to the strengths of videogame storytelling, it's actively fighting against it, which is why as it starts ramping up in this second part of the game all of your little gameplay features start being thrown out the window one by one.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:47
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Sydin posted:Ugh what is this game doing to me why am I trying to improve garbage. I'm gonna go ahead and say this game is so flawed from the conceptual level that if we started brainstorming improvements we'd just end up with an entirely different game.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:52
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darealkooky posted:In kojimas defense, he's very good at (or at least was, back with the metal gear games people actually liked and some of his adventure game stuff) at writing stories that play to the strengths of the medium of video games. it's easy to just say "man video game stories are so bad if something like this can be considered high quality", and while that's not wrong it's kinda missing the forest for the trees because it's like judging a very visual heavy movie by the standards of a radio drama. I'm not saying Kojima is garbage, but I'm not sure that telling a story in codec calls with two static images is playing to the strengths of the medium. Sure, the MGS games have some cool stuff that really are playing to the medium like Vamp being immune to autoaim/lock-on but most of isn't that special and it doesn't make up for the bad stuff either. He got a lot of credit for being explicit about his games having themes(Gene,Meme,Scene) but the meme thing became an excuse for every post MGS2 game having constant references, callback and just straight copying sequences from earlier games. Also stuff like saving in MGS3 meaning Kojima nudging you with his elbow and going "Hey remember this old movie? It's pretty cool ,right?" Compare that to FF games really going heavily on Chocobos, Cid, reusing summon names, crystals etc. Sure it's part of the series but it also serves the function of transplanting your feeling/nostalgia about them into the new game. Actually I think the road trip story they started the game with would be playing to the strengths of the genre/medium since it's a reason to travel around the area and get a feeling for the people and environment which you are probably going to do anyway. But when the "real" plot starts that's when it becomes straight corridors and nonsense cutscenes. Every game needs and extra pass by an editor, it's just that FFXV needed it more than most. But it couldn't have because they ran out of money, because they wasted it on the wrong things, like getting a famous clothing designer for a dress that show up in like 2 scenes or a continent you only see from a train. MGS5 is good comparison because it had it's 3rd act cut making a lot of the plot nonsense because they wasted the money of movie star VAs and custom Brand sunglasses and that's after they split the game in two and had you pay for both, just like how FFXV split it's story for a movie, a game and an anime series. The difference seems to be that Konami kicked out Kojima(in a pretty lovely way) when he became to expensive with his projects but Square Enix keeps giving Nomura more projects to gently caress up. Also remember that most people don't finish games so if you never got the point where the plot falls completely apart you would probably have a better opinion of the game than if you finished ít, and while it's not great the plot at least makes a bit sense up until you fight the sea snake, at least for the parts not involving Ardyn. And now I'm really embarrassed I wasted so many words on this game's storytelling.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:17
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Kaasen posted:I'm gonna go ahead and say this game is so flawed from the conceptual level that if we started brainstorming improvements we'd just end up with an entirely different game. Yeah, that's how I feel too. They said development restarted once Tabata was put on it, but I can't really buy that. Too much of this feels like they were obligated to keep it in because it was already made, and without it there is essentially no story to speak of.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:29
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The MGS series was overcomplicated, stupid and eye rolling but that happened cause kojima kept trying to intentionally throw the plot off the rails and it just collapsed under its own weight after a certain point. This game, to my knowledge, is a self contained plot that despite cutting a bunch of content couldn't even cut back the plot to a coherent simple story. I imagine it would've been very easy to cut this back to "Evil guy got slighted by the king, wants revenge" or something along those lines and sell this game on the concept of being open world since that seems to be the in vogue thing with games these days. But nope, they stuck with having it be an incoherent mess. F1DriverQuidenBerg fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 21:38
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Momomo posted:Yeah, that's how I feel too. They said development restarted once Tabata was put on it, but I can't really buy that. Too much of this feels like they were obligated to keep it in because it was already made, and without it there is essentially no story to speak of. This game is literally stitched together from the corpses of hype trailers, is the sense I get.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:16
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Zenostein posted:Imagine if Ignis insisted on calling recipes "recettes." They camped in the poo poo-pit, remember? With the eating out of cans because none of the rest of them can be trusted to follow basic cooking directions. Was that the last continent or this one?
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Mar 13, 2018 22:17
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The eastern half of this continent/country/territory/neighborhood
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Mar 13, 2018 22:28
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Hel posted:a continent you only see from a train. You can actually get out of bounds and go explore this, it's not quite a full continent worth of stuff, but there is clearly things made that were at some point supposed to be used https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5v-LZLEE7g
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Mar 13, 2018 22:41
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So Ardyn trolled Noctis on the train and then kidnapped Prompto so that... he could lead them all back to Prompto so that Prompto would be able to open doors with his never before mentioned robot arm chips? It was mentioned before that Ardyn has the best voice acting in the game and I'm inclined to like him for the nods at having an actual personality, but I feel like if his big evil plot were written out in a way it could actually be followed it would be the absolute stupidest and most pointlessly convoluted thing. He better at least have used all that time he had Prompto strapped to the thing to implant some sleeper agent poo poo considering he had both magic and technology at hand to work on a robot wizard demon the prince hangs out with all the time and completely trusts. Who were the people who originally thought introducing the enemy's computer chip implanted robot kid to the crown prince to be best buds with was a good idea anyway? Did King Dad okay this?
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Mar 13, 2018 23:49
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Zoe posted:So Ardyn trolled Noctis on the train and then kidnapped Prompto so that... he could lead them all back to Prompto so that Prompto would be able to open doors with his never before mentioned robot arm chips? I've said it before, but the only way Chancellor Hobo's actions make any sense at all is if he wants the boy band brigade to get to where they're going for some reason, and that's most likely going to be the big dumb twist here. The trolling is just him having a grand ol' time.
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Mar 14, 2018 00:35
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I refuse to believe that this game made any kind of sense at any time in development, no way they could have gotten from anything coherent to this mess.
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Mar 14, 2018 00:49
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Cerebral Bore posted:The trolling is just him having a grand ol' time. Honestly, Chancellor Hobo being an rear end in a top hat because these jerks deserve it would be the best plot resolution. Ardyn is far and away the best character in this game. It may or may not be because he has the least screentime aside from Emperor Gollum, Captain Rival, the other Imperial guy and Professor Toadlicker.
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Mar 14, 2018 01:11
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quote:Most men are born; but some are created for a special purpose—and Prompto is one such man. Artificially generated from the genes of mad scientist Verstael Besithia, he was initially intended to serve as a test subject for the empire's magitek experiments. The unstable scientist's plans wet awry, however, when a Lucian spy operating on a hot tip absconded with baby Prompto and entrusted him to a foster family in Insomnia. It's kind of amazing that this really important thing about Prompto was revealed in a guidebook or something and never brought up in the main game until the DLC. On Verstael you may remember him as the guy that sounds like Emperor Palatine from Star Wars who showed up a grand total of one time with the rest of the empire leaders.  He shows up in early FFXV trailers so I assume he was originally planned to be more important rather then a guy who shows up once then never again. The guy who Gladio and Ignis are wearing the armor of, Glauca fared similarly poorly. Showing up several times in promotional material for FFXV as a scary Darth Vaderish dude. But then he got removed from the game and only shows up once in the opening of this game (out of armor) and in the movie were he kills the king and is killed in the climax. (Or he may have survived and turned into a Daemon it's not clear.) Edit oh I missed it. Glauca also killed Luna's mother and Gladio's father too. More reason for characters in the game to have beef with him, yet he is a killed in an unrelated side event in a movie. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Mar 14, 2018 |
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Mar 14, 2018 05:33
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why do people like this bad game? perception bias? stockholm syndrome? square-enix leaking mind-altering drugs into the water supply?
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Mar 14, 2018 05:43
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sudonim posted:why do people like this bad game? perception bias? stockholm syndrome? square-enix leaking mind-altering drugs into the water supply? There is always demand for overmarketed and overpolished turds. Besides at least one industry insider said only like 10-20% players bothers to finish any particular game, so we are talking about a huge XV audience who will never see the terribad second half of this game.
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Mar 14, 2018 08:20
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Palladium posted:There is always demand for overmarketed and overpolished turds. Besides at least one industry insider said only like 10-20% players bothers to finish any particular game, so we are talking about a huge XV audience who will never see the terribad second half of this game. It's a bit early for the PC version but you can even look this up yourselves(10-20% is a bit exaggerated) . Just compare the percentage of people who got the "Finished the prologue" achievement and then see how quickly the percentage drops for each successive plot achievement. For the Data I've found on the PS4 Version: 97% finished the prologue which drops to 66% getting on the boat to canal town which is where the railroading starts. Then the drop to finishing the game is smaller, only 60% of owners did that. So not actually that bad on the completion rate. But only ~2/3 got to the part where the game starts to fall apart. Hel fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Mar 14, 2018 |
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Mar 14, 2018 09:25
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sudonim posted:why do people like this bad game? perception bias? stockholm syndrome? square-enix leaking mind-altering drugs into the water supply? It's because it's a Final Fantasy game, and this is what the series has become. Remember, Squaresoft originally jumped ship from Nintendo to Sony because FF7 could not have been made for the N64, and the kind of spectacle that the PSX allowed became part of its marketing campaign. FF7 turned out to be massively successful, and characters like Cloud, Tifa, Aerith and Sephiroth became massively popular at least partially due to the appeal of Nomura's designs. There are a lot of good things about FF7 (and bad things), but Square apparently came to the conclusion that the game's success had everything to do with marketing, spectacle, and Nomura. Given the sales of 8, 10, Kingdom Hearts, 13 and now 15 it's easy to see why SE still thinks these are the magic factors for success. However, if you look at this series by any metric besides profit I think it's obvious that FF has been in decline at least since Sakaguchi left the company (FF14's turn-around being the miraculous exception). I'm not at all surprised that there's people who love FF15 because SE has spent 21 years cultivating an audience for the kind of video game equivalent of junk food they now produce, and by now the original audience has probably all either left, resigned themselves, or turned into people like myself who complain bitterly on message boards.
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Mar 14, 2018 11:53
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You guys keep saying the game "falls apart" once they get to the gobbledygook of a plot and the non-free-world section, but compared to automatic driving for 5 minutes with no character dialogue so that you can find some dog tags or a rock, I would take the gobbledygook. At least it has Ardyn being a ham.
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Mar 14, 2018 14:17
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