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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I wasn't really talking about Mal though, there's no argument from me that Firefly has aged into unwatchable territory. I was just replying to the latest post on the topic, I'm sorry I realize it might be confusing. Firefly didn't age into unwatchable territory, it was always garbage.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:45
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Jedit posted:Firefly didn't age into unwatchable territory, it was always garbage. Still super weird and bad that they had no Asian major characters in the explicitly Chinese-influenced setting.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:54
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I still twitch when someone claims that the Chinese influences made the show prescient. Sure, just like all of the Japanese influences in Eighties sci-fi were prophetic too.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:57
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Bieeanshee posted:I still twitch when someone claims that the Chinese influences made the show prescient. Sure, just like all of the Japanese influences in Eighties sci-fi were prophetic too. Especially because it's only in Firefly because there was Taoist stuff in Outlaw Star.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:59
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Guy Goodbody posted:Especially because it's only in Firefly because there was Taoist stuff in Outlaw Star. Still boggles my mind that Ork ships in 40k aren't all grappler ships.
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Mar 16, 2018 15:25
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LuiCypher posted:Still boggles my mind that Ork ships in 40k aren't all grappler ships. The ships in 40k are way too big for that. Or are they? Piledrives an imperial ship of the line into a hive world destroying the entire planet in an instant.
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Mar 16, 2018 16:00
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DalaranJ posted:The ships in 40k are way too big for that.  The scene in rogue one but with a pair of arms attached to the hammerhead ship
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Mar 16, 2018 16:34
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So what happens in Firefly or its backstory that is the apologia? I've never seen it and Wikipedia isn't helping. FWIW, I am more familiar with the general history of Confederate apologia but this is the first I've heard about any connection to Firefly. Pretty much all I'd encountered before now was that apparently the setting was Space Western with supposed Chinese influences despite everyone being white. (And the fact that the fandom could be quite rabid.)
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Mar 16, 2018 17:13
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Chill la Chill posted:
The arms are throwing the 'up yours' sign.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:13
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I wasn't really talking about Mal though, there's no argument from me that Firefly has aged into unwatchable territory. I was just replying to the latest post on the topic, I'm sorry I realize it might be confusing. That's true. I mean, even if you wanted to get past that (for whatever unknowable reason) there's still Adam Baldwin Adam Baldwin-ing all over the place.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:15
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NGDBSS posted:So what happens in Firefly or its backstory that is the apologia? I've never seen it and Wikipedia isn't helping. The show draws very obvious parallels between the Independents and the Confederacy and between the Alliance and the Union, because it's milking existing tropes from Westerns actually set in the Old West, and never stops to consider how portraying the Confederacy analogue as the heroic rebels fighting for freedom from oppressive Big Federal Government might be a problem. The issue isn't that the Independents are the good guys and the Alliance are the bad guys, it's that because the Good Confederate Veteran is a classic Western trope and the show just blindly copies it for Mal, it ends up portraying the Confederacy analogue as the good guys. Firefly isn't Confederate apologia, it's just cargo-culting Confederate apologia because Joss Whedon is an idiot. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 17:26
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The backstory is confederate (without slavery) rural vs Nazis. It IS a noble lost cause trope, but it's a stretch to get butthurt about. Like what if the South WASNT poo poo? At the same time I understand finding infuriating when real life people buy into the lost cause rhetoric so I get it. gently caress your stars and bars. It's not heritage.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:32
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DalaranJ posted:The ships in 40k are way too big for that. Eh, we're talking about a race where bigger is always better, so the biggest ship with the biggest arms to throw around other big ships should be objectively The Best Ship. Bonus points if it has an automated gob to chomp ships it's grappling.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:36
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The reason "confederate (without slavery) rural vs Nazis" pisses people off is because it's basically "rural nazis (without holocaust, so they're good) vs actually the north was the real nazis." Which is an uncharitable reading, perhaps, but that's what you get when you grab a bunch of tropes and then pretend they were created ex nihilo. also why the gently caress did GW not put arms on the ork kroozers? they had big mouths and almost teeth but that poo poo didn't even open, what was the point?
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Mar 16, 2018 17:36
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Bombadilillo posted:The backstory is confederate (without slavery) rural vs Nazis. this is dumb, not just because every post that uses "butthurt" is dumb but because making the obvious union stand-ins into nazis and mostly* erasing slavery from the confederate stand-ins is exactly the problem *it's actually worse than this, because slavery is mentioned as going on in the outer planets, but in a way that precisely matches how lost causers like to think about american slavery
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Mar 16, 2018 17:43
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LuiCypher posted:Still boggles my mind that Ork ships in 40k aren't all grappler ships. At least the Orks have ships with guns way bigger than the ship it's mounted on so if the gun fires once it destroys the ship DalaranJ posted:The ships in 40k are way too big for that. World Eater ships have Ursus Claws, massive harpoons on giant chains that they fire into enemy ships so they can pull them closer and blast them with broadsides at point blank range.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:59
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Bombadilillo posted:The backstory is confederate (without slavery) rural vs Nazis. Really? That's never how I understood it when I watched it, I really don't get how that's a logical conclusion? To me it was a neo-corporate fascist takeover of various independent colonies, it never crossed my mind that it had anything to do with the USA, north or south. Not even them term rural.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:18
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NTRabbit posted:Really? That's never how I understood it when I watched it, I really don't get how that's a logical conclusion? To me it was a neo-corporate fascist takeover of various independent colonies, it never crossed my mind that it had anything to do with the USA, north or south. Not even them term rural. They are the farming planet in the outer rim. That's where Rural came from. I too don't get the DIRECT parralels to union confederate that others ITT got. The Fed's are in drat SS in space uniforms. But I agree with them that Reynolds whole character trope is the noble in defeat Lost Cause hero achitype.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:24
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Well for one, the holiday to celebrate the end of the space civil war is called Unification Day and Mal says at least once We will Rise Again.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:26
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It doesn’t help that Mal is identified as a Brownshirt, er coat. I get that it’s not intentional and most people never make that connection—but it’s still weird to hear. Has there ever been a color + garment identifier in history that hasn’t been sinister?
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Mar 16, 2018 18:29
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The Malthusian posted:It doesn’t help that Mal is identified as a Brownshirt, er coat. I get that it’s not intentional and most people never make that connection—but it’s still weird to hear. Has there ever been a color + garment identifier in history that hasn’t been sinister? The Red Hat Society, though that largely depends on your views of middle age+ women.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:31
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The concept of the Federal Government being fascist dictators is literally the core of real life Lost Cause ideology. That and the racism.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:31
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Mr. Maltose posted:The concept of the Federal Government being fascist dictators is literally the core of real life Lost Cause ideology. It was also the core of the resistance movement in Nazi Germany. I seriously think you Americans are projecting your issues way too much on the rest of the world.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:33
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NTRabbit posted:It was also the core of the resistance movement in Nazi Germany. pretty sure we are talking about a tv show made by americans, based on an explicitly american genre and full of american setting references?
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Mar 16, 2018 18:36
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NTRabbit posted:I seriously think you Americans are projecting your issues way too much on the rest of the world. I'm European. Firefly is an American TV show. e; maybe just admit that you're ignorant of the show's baggage, instead of trying to claim to people who aren't ignorant that no, they're wrong. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 18:36
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DalaranJ posted:The ships in 40k are way too big for that. There's a scene in one of the Beast Rises novels where ork ships cut open troop transports with giant buzzsaw arms and vent all the soldiers into space.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:40
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NTRabbit posted:It was also the core of the resistance movement in Nazi Germany.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:44
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FMguru posted:How are you this loving dense? Not being an American, I guess I don't see 'the South' in every shadow
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Mar 16, 2018 18:45
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Man, remember two pages ago when this was about conquistadors? Crazy times.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:48
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NTRabbit posted:Not being an American, I guess I don't see 'the South' in every shadow What do you think the origin of the term "Western" is? It's not West London.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:50
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NTRabbit posted:It was also the core of the resistance movement in Nazi Germany. this post loving rules
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Mar 16, 2018 18:51
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I really wish that conquistador game was just about Mexico natives monster- huntering dragons without Europeans in it at all.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:51
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jadarx posted:There's a scene in one of the Beast Rises novels where ork ships cut open troop transports with giant buzzsaw arms and vent all the soldiers into space. There was also a Death Star shaped like a giant ork head that screamed at planets until they exploded.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:52
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NTRabbit posted:Not being an American, I guess I don't see 'the South' in every shadow Lol. My dude. The Southern racist underbelly is literally rising again. It's not in shadows. It's called the alt-right and it's loving scary how overt it is and defended by the biggest news network. It is in the forefront of the American mind.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:53
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NTRabbit posted:Not being an American, I guess I don't see 'the South' in every shadow Right, so you haven't been marinating in it for the past 160 years, like those of us in the US. It isn't like anyone is saying everything is evil confederacy metaphors - just Deadlands and Firefly, two Western-genre properties made in the US that contain confederate apologia, which is easily recognizable when you live in a society that has confederate apologia hanging from our fuckin city halls and police stations.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:54
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NTRabbit posted:Not being an American, I guess I don't see 'the South' in every shadow you may not be an american by birth but you sure have a very american way of dealing with things you don't understand
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Mar 16, 2018 18:57
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The Malthusian posted:It doesn’t help that Mal is identified as a Brownshirt, er coat. I get that it’s not intentional and most people never make that connection—but it’s still weird to hear. Has there ever been a color + garment identifier in history that hasn’t been sinister? White Hat doesn't have sinister connotations. Um... college football has red/gray/blue/green shirt as an identifier for various levels of student athlete, but given how lovely that is, I'm not sure it counts
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Mar 16, 2018 19:00
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I wouldn't say that Red Shirt's connotation is necessarily sinister, as such.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:09
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Mr. Maltose posted:I wouldn't say that Red Shirt's connotation is necessarily sinister, as such. It's only sinister if you're the one in the red shirt.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:11
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Mr. Maltose posted:I wouldn't say that Red Shirt's connotation is necessarily sinister, as such. I dunno it feels like after a point the captains know what's gonna happen but still send the red shirts to go subdue the raging Gorn or whatever
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Mar 16, 2018 19:14
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