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Badger of Basra posted:https://twitter.com/OurRevolution/status/974057637250813952 Truthfully, San Francisco is perma hosed so long as the tech boom continues. Its really a pretty terrible place to have the most expensive real estate market in the country with no real room to expand in a meaningful way. I'm more and more convinced that the bay area housing situation is unsolvable in its current iteration.
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Mar 16, 2018 05:31
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is there some good resource explaining housing proposals like that? or should i not bother and continue advocating for the creation of stalinist style apartment blocs everywhere
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Mar 16, 2018 05:32
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 Even with no tech boom, SF would still have a housing crisis. There's not enough housing growth to cover population growth, even ignoring people concentrating in cities and places with good job markets.
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Mar 16, 2018 06:21
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Nationalize everything. Build skyscrapers of cheap apartment buildings.
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Mar 16, 2018 06:25
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MarcusSA posted:For me I’d rather rent in a nice area for less then it would cost me to buy in the same area and not have to deal with buying a 80 year old house that needs a poo poo load of work.
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Mar 16, 2018 06:30
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 We honestly could use with some loving Soviet apartment blocks instead of these loving poo poo rear end modernist piece of poo poo luxury apartments that keep being built and displacing everyone within a block when their landlords realize that their unit is now capable of being gentrified.
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Mar 16, 2018 08:45
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cheese posted:I mean, SB 827 is a pretty lovely bill. Mandating that areas with public transit allow high density housing without strong provisions to keep it from being largely luxury tech condos is an odd way of rewarding rich neighborhoods that keep public transit out. Want your site lines and ocean views preserved? Get rid of that bus stop by the grocery store and make sure no one brings rail into your area!
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Mar 16, 2018 11:21
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I still don't understand with the amount of people getting pushed out of Orange Couny to inland, why does the job market in the IE still suck poo poo?
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Mar 16, 2018 13:10
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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Probably the same reason every other cheap metro doesn't get an economic boom off its cheapness: people with the ability to choose where they live, don't want to live there.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:01
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"Cheap" I can rent my house out for 2200 a month. Zillow lists it at 450k. It's a 2,000 sq ft. This place is becoming unaffordable to live and it's the cheap solution. I'll bet my fellow Riverside residents will be pushed to Hemet. Median household income is listed at 50k in Riverside. It's loving wild how this place is even holding itself together without its own economy.
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Mar 16, 2018 15:56
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fermun posted:
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Mar 16, 2018 16:03
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FilthyImp posted:Didn't we find out shoving dozens of people in poorly designed concrete towers without any care for design or greenspace was a bad idea, like, 40 years ago? Bad compared to what?
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Mar 16, 2018 16:25
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cheese posted:Truthfully, San Francisco is perma hosed so long as the tech boom continues. Its really a pretty terrible place to have the most expensive real estate market in the country with no real room to expand in a meaningful way. I'm more and more convinced that the bay area housing situation is unsolvable in its current iteration. Yeah I came to that conclusion long ago. I still think at some point there's going to be an exodus of tech companies and tech workers - IE everyone who can afford to move - to places reasonably cheaper, and all of the locals and service/support industry people will be left behind to rot. It might not happen tomorrow, or for even another 10 years, but I really think it's coming.
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Mar 16, 2018 16:34
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Aeka 2.0 posted:I still don't understand with the amount of people getting pushed out of Orange Couny to inland, why does the job market in the IE still suck poo poo? There seems to be a swell of growth in the healthcare industry out here but I think that’s just because the area is so underserved. UCR is literally paying doctors now to stay in the area and not leave to LA and OC. There some smaller tech shops in Ontario and Rancho but there no real “industry” besides logistics and construction. Not sure how you can change it or what kind of industry would thrive out here.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:39
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FCKGW posted:There seems to be a swell of growth in the healthcare industry out here but I think that’s just because the area is so underserved. UCR is literally paying doctors now to stay in the area and not leave to LA and OC.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:45
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Foxfire_ posted:
Weird choice to compare to US population growth rates rather than SF population growth rates. By choosing national data instead of city data, it obscures the fact the SF population shrank in the ‘70s and ‘80s. Which is a key part of the story of why housing development stopped, people acquired underpriced real estate, and now cling to the parts of that resource they value most (be it the property value, the view, etc).
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Mar 16, 2018 17:55
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Using SF growth rates has its own issues though, since drastically limiting housing growth naturally puts a constraint on how many people can move to your city, even if many more want to.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:22
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punk rebel ecks posted:Nationalize everything. Build skyscrapers of cheap apartment buildings. Just saw Dredd again last night and I too support megablocks. gently caress the cursed earth and welcome to Mega City 2.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:29
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RevKrule posted:Just saw Dredd again last night and I too support megablocks. gently caress the cursed earth and welcome to Mega City 2. I give it 5 years before Google, Apple, or Facebook announces they're building a loving Arcology straight out of Shadowrun.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:33
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Cicero posted:Using SF growth rates has its own issues though, since drastically limiting housing growth naturally puts a constraint on how many people can move to your city, even if many more want to. especially when the city is a tiny square in a much larger metro area.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:45
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AngryBooch posted:I give it 5 years before Google, Apple, or Facebook announces they're building a loving Arcology straight out of Shadowrun. Deus did nothing wrong.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:55
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dont be mean to me posted:Deus did nothing wrong. That's a huge bitch!
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Mar 16, 2018 20:12
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FMguru posted:Maybe an "edge city" effect? If everyone who works in LA/OC lives in the IE and commutes to the coast to work, then it makes sense for companies to start building offices in the IE. That's what happened to White Plains, NY - it was the main train station for people from the suburbs to commute to NYC, and eventually all the big NYC companies figured that if all their workers were gathering in White Plains at 7am every morning to commute in to the city to work, then why not just build branch offices in White Plains and save money and everyone's time? And so White Plains went from a bedroom community with a train station to a very prosperous small city. Logistics centers are gobbling up all the usable land and bussness can still afford to be in LA. I doubt any job creator gives a single gently caress about their employees locations or needs.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:24
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incoherent posted:Logistics centers are gobbling up all the usable land and bussness can still afford to be in LA. I doubt any job creator gives a single gently caress about their employees locations or needs. Maybe not their low level employees but if the executives are commuting too then they might move it. That's what tronc almost did to the LA Times.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:42
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AngryBooch posted:I give it 5 years before Google, Apple, or Facebook announces they're building a loving Arcology straight out of Shadowrun. Apple essentially did except they said gently caress children.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:48
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Jaxyon posted:Apple ... said gently caress children.
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Mar 17, 2018 00:05
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Badger of Basra posted:Maybe not their low level employees but if the executives are commuting too then they might move it. That's what tronc almost did to the LA Times. The thought of LA times moving out of their historic building  ......but maybe they can turn it into housing 
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Mar 17, 2018 00:59
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Well, after one year of the 91 freeway expansion, induced demand has hit the eastbound fast and hard to a grinding halt, The situation is now worse than before the expansion and also more expensive if using the express lanes. I'm going to melt the gently caress down, because it now looks like two hours for the main line or for 20 dollars you can use both express lanes to get a 30 mile commute in and hour and ten mins. Mind you I used to pay 8 dollars on a Friday and be home in 45 mins.
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Mar 17, 2018 01:56
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Aeka 2.0 posted:Well, after one year of the 91 freeway expansion, induced demand has hit the eastbound fast and hard to a grinding halt, The situation is now worse than before the expansion and also more expensive if using the express lanes. I'm going to melt the gently caress down, because it now looks like two hours for the main line or for 20 dollars you can use both express lanes to get a 30 mile commute in and hour and ten mins. The 91 is one thing I absolutely do not miss about living in southern california
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Mar 17, 2018 02:01
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incoherent posted:The thought of LA times moving out of their historic building Oh sure, move the LA Times out of their fortress building. We’ll see how great of an idea that is when it gets bombed by anarchists again.
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Mar 17, 2018 04:27
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Instant Sunrise posted:Oh sure, move the LA Times out of their fortress building. that's what makes it a great idea
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Mar 17, 2018 05:13
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Colin Mockery posted:This isn’t actually true, unless by “gay bar” you mean “lesbian bar”. My understanding is that most of the Castro gay businesses have had to reorient themselves as tourist attractions that are cishet friendly to pay the bills. My friends in the drag scene refer to it as a minstrel show.
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Mar 19, 2018 05:30
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Cicero posted:Using SF growth rates has its own issues though, since drastically limiting housing growth naturally puts a constraint on how many people can move to your city, even if many more want to.
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Mar 19, 2018 05:50
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cis autodrag posted:My understanding is that most of the Castro gay businesses have had to reorient themselves as tourist attractions that are cishet friendly to pay the bills. My friends in the drag scene refer to it as a minstrel show. So you’re definitely right that the Castro is treated as a tourist destination (both by queer people and by straight people who think of queer people as zoo animals) and that a lot of the places are cishet-friendly, which leads to cishet people patronizing gay businesses. The last time I was at QBar there were more straight couples dancing than gay ones. And the whole bachelorette party thing is a plague. I’m definitely sympathetic to that complaint. But that’s not “the tech people are pushing out the gays” — that’s “too many tech people are spending their money here and we don’t want them around”. The gay bars in the area still exist. Having straight people spend money at Lookout (or the other gay bars in that area) doesn’t mean Lookout is now a straight bar. Unless you’re complaining about the neighborhood demographics, in which case yeah, tech people are moving into the Castro and gay people who can’t afford the increased housing costs are increasingly unable to finding affordable housing in the Castro. But I’m always uncomfortable with “the wrong sorts of people are moving into my neighborhood” complaints, just in general, since I’ve never heard a good suggestion about what people should actually... do to prevent the wrong sorts from moving into their neighborhood. Regardless, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that “too many straight people are here and we don’t like it” (regardless of if it’s people moving in or just patronizing the businesses) is equivalent to “this gay bar has been shut down and no longer exists” — if you wanna complain about that, complain about the Lexington and Esta Noche in the Mission getting hosed and going out of business (Esta Noche’s even been replaced by some fancy cocktail bar).
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Mar 19, 2018 07:07
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There's a whole Vice documentary on the death of the lesbian (and gay) bar, my boss is actually all over it, an interesting watch. A lot of gay bars have adopted the safe space for everyone vibe as a way of embracing the progress of the last two decades, which has ironically killed the haven for gays mentality there used to be. Plus, people growing up and settling down as business owners is a thing, and bars are a business where you certainly burn out of it. Running a gay bar in SF from 1980 to 2010 I can only imagine would be like the perfect storm of money hand over fist paradise and exhaustive high blood pressure stress coma inducing hell.
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Mar 19, 2018 10:55
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revolther posted:There's a whole Vice documentary on the death of the lesbian (and gay) bar, my boss is actually all over it, an interesting watch. A lot of gay bars have adopted the safe space for everyone vibe as a way of embracing the progress of the last two decades, which has ironically killed the haven for gays mentality there used to be. Plus, people growing up and settling down as business owners is a thing, and bars are a business where you certainly burn out of it. I'm pretty sure hookup apps like Grindr have had their part in the slow demise of gay bars. Going to a bar to find guys seems like too much work when you can match with them on your phone ad work from there.
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Mar 19, 2018 14:27
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I feel like Grindr has been around since pagers though.
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Mar 19, 2018 14:51
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The idea of comparing SF housing to US population is that the only way SF avoids a housing crises at it's historical building levels is by having stagnant growth for the last forty years If you merge San Francisco and San Mateo counties to get the whole peninsula, the '70s are flat, '80s and '90s are +0.75%/year, and the '00s are +0.25%/year. Bay area as a whole (SF+all surrounding counties) are about +1%/year for the whole time. I can't find housing stats for the other counties to look at peninsula and bay area housing growth.
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Mar 20, 2018 08:29
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I wonder if the lack of housing has anything to do with SF's growth
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Mar 20, 2018 09:09
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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/21/eric-garcetti-iowa-477573 Garcetti bending the knee and kissing rings in iowa. Do not vote for this man.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:11
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