MakerBots, RepRaps and UP!s: It's 3D printers!

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Full Circle: Feb 20, 2008

Jestery posted:

Can someone explain what the value in jerk means?

Like I've googled it and I get that it means how quickly my motor gets to top speed, but like

What is the difference between (a firmware) value of 20mm² vs 4000mm²?

Just as speed is a change in position over time, and acceleration is a change in speed over time, jerk is a change in acceleration over time.
Optimally your printer would accelerate near-instantly to it's max speed, but that would cause massive backlash, vibrations etc. So it accelerates at a reasonable pace for controlled movements over larger distances. Jerk most noticeably dampens the sudden change in speed and direction at the beginning and end of moves, where the max acceleration value would be too violent.

VVV That's basically it

Full Circle fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Mar 22, 2018

# ? Mar 22, 2018 05:06

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 06:13

Jestery: Aug 2, 2016; Not a Dickman, just a shape

Full Circle posted:

Just as speed is a change in position over time, and acceleration is a change in speed over time, jerk is a change in acceleration over time.
Optimally your printer would accelerate near-instantly to it's max speed, but that would cause massive backlash, vibrations etc. So it accelerates at a reasonable pace for controlled movements over larger distances. Jerk most noticeably dampens the sudden change in speed and direction at the beginning and end of moves, where the max acceleration value would be too violent.

Oh so it's like 20(mm/s)^2 that makes sense I think

# ? Mar 22, 2018 05:12

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012; erm... actually thieves should be summarily executed

Jestery posted:

Can someone explain what the value in jerk means?

Like I've googled it and I get that it means how quickly my motor gets to top speed, but like

What is the difference between (a firmware) value of 20mm² vs 4000mm²?

Position is position.

Velocity is the rate of change of position (how fast are you moving?).

Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity (are you speeding up or slowing down, and how quickly?)

Jerk is the rate of change of acceleration (are you suddenly changing direction, accelerating slowly then quickly, or are you being smooth?)

A high-jerk acceleration is when you stomp on the gas and immediately release it. Acceleration goes from zero to some high value and back to zero in an instant. It's jerky. A low-jerk acceleration is a smooth movement that causes the car to ease into the speed change.

20mm/s^3 means that the acceleration can change by up to 20mm/s^2 in one second, which is an extremely low jerk. 4000mm/s^3 is pretty high. Lower jerk might mean smoother perimeters and probably means a quieter printer, but it's a slow print. High jerk is the opposite.

e: beaten

# ? Mar 22, 2018 05:13

Aurium: Oct 10, 2010

Marlin jerk isn't physics jerk.

Rather, it's the highest change in speed that marlin says that your printer can accelerate to "instantaneously." For example, if you have it set to 20mm/s if your printer has a set move to go somewhere at at 20mm/s it will just drive the motors as though it can go that speed. If instead it has a set move at 40mm/s it'll follow whatever acceleration speed slope is set in the firmware. This is why it's documented as mm/s, rather than mm/s³.

# ? Mar 22, 2018 05:28

porksmash: Sep 30, 2008

Jestery posted:

Can someone explain what the value in jerk means?

Like I've googled it and I get that it means how quickly my motor gets to top speed, but like

What is the difference between (a firmware) value of 20mm² vs 4000mm²?

Jerk in Marlin firmware is a bit of a misnomer. It's not the rate of change in acceleration of your steppers at all. It's more of a numerical limit to decide whether or not to apply acceleration between adjacent moves. I believe it is calulated by adding the vectors of both moves, and if the resulting vector is greater than your jerk setting, Marlin applies deceleration and acceleration. If not, it just bangs through and attempts to change vector instantaneously.

In other words, the lower your jerk setting values, your printer will slow down and speed up between moves it might otherwise not have slowed down for.

# ? Mar 22, 2018 06:18

Jestery: Aug 2, 2016; Not a Dickman, just a shape

Sagebrush posted:

20mm/s^3 means that the acceleration can change by up to 20mm/s^2 in one second, which is an extremely low jerk. 4000mm/s^3 is pretty high. Lower jerk might mean smoother perimeters and probably means a quieter printer, but it's a slow print. High jerk is the opposite.

e: beaten

Perfect, this was the missing piece of the puzzle.

Thank you my dude

# ? Mar 22, 2018 06:32

kaffo: Jun 20, 2017; If it's broken, it's probably my fault

I'm so glad you asked this question. I was interested myself but haven't had time to investigate. Thanks for the explanation goonfriends!

# ? Mar 22, 2018 09:25

CapnBry: Jul 15, 2002; I got this goin'; Grimey Drawer

I'm not sure where else to ask this, but my go to source for metric fasteners has always been Mr Metric. They have all the fasteners you'd need to build a 3D printer or assemble anything that came out of a 3D printer. However, last month they announced that they will be closing their shop for good once they've sold all their existing inventory. This is a mighty blow to those of us who need 500pcs M3x25mm stainless screws at 3 cents a piece with 500pcs M3 stainless nuts for half a cent each or just 8pcs M5x40mm with nylock nuts for under a dollar.

So where do we USicans get our stainless metric fasteners now? McMaster-Carr is the obvious choice but they are over twice the price on the product and more than triple the price when you account for their shipping. Local hardware stores are crap, where like 80% of their stock is in zinc #6 and #8 screws. eBay sort of works but it isn't fun to dig around their interface to find all the parts I need from as few vendors as possible, and repeat orders require the same effort-- if the sellers are still around.

# ? Mar 22, 2018 14:06

ClassH: Mar 18, 2008

Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:

Hatchbox is a pretty good one.

Hatchbox is having some issues with supplying on amazon. Amz3d filament is the same as Hatchbox on a different spool. (from the same factory I believe). Other option is esun PLA+ which I have had great luck with the fire truck red color.

# ? Mar 22, 2018 14:18

Some Pinko Commie: Jun 9, 2009; CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

CapnBry posted:

I'm not sure where else to ask this, but my go to source for metric fasteners has always been Mr Metric. They have all the fasteners you'd need to build a 3D printer or assemble anything that came out of a 3D printer. However, last month they announced that they will be closing their shop for good once they've sold all their existing inventory. This is a mighty blow to those of us who need 500pcs M3x25mm stainless screws at 3 cents a piece with 500pcs M3 stainless nuts for half a cent each or just 8pcs M5x40mm with nylock nuts for under a dollar.

So where do we USicans get our stainless metric fasteners now? McMaster-Carr is the obvious choice but they are over twice the price on the product and more than triple the price when you account for their shipping. Local hardware stores are crap, where like 80% of their stock is in zinc #6 and #8 screws. eBay sort of works but it isn't fun to dig around their interface to find all the parts I need from as few vendors as possible, and repeat orders require the same effort-- if the sellers are still around.

Find the part you want on McMaster-Carr, then copy/paste the product description into Amazon's search box.

# ? Mar 22, 2018 16:46

cephalopods: Aug 11, 2013

CapnBry posted:

I'm not sure where else to ask this, but my go to source for metric fasteners has always been Mr Metric. They have all the fasteners you'd need to build a 3D printer or assemble anything that came out of a 3D printer. However, last month they announced that they will be closing their shop for good once they've sold all their existing inventory. This is a mighty blow to those of us who need 500pcs M3x25mm stainless screws at 3 cents a piece with 500pcs M3 stainless nuts for half a cent each or just 8pcs M5x40mm with nylock nuts for under a dollar.

So where do we USicans get our stainless metric fasteners now? McMaster-Carr is the obvious choice but they are over twice the price on the product and more than triple the price when you account for their shipping. Local hardware stores are crap, where like 80% of their stock is in zinc #6 and #8 screws. eBay sort of works but it isn't fun to dig around their interface to find all the parts I need from as few vendors as possible, and repeat orders require the same effort-- if the sellers are still around.

I ordered M3/M5 kits of assorted lengths off amazon, and I've been replenishing the types I use most via random ebay sellers. I'm probably lucky I've always ended up with reasonably strong steel and not cheese.

# ? Mar 22, 2018 16:56

Full Circle: Feb 20, 2008

I've seen this site recommended in the past, though I haven't used them personally the prices look good:
https://www.trimcraftaviationrc.com/index.php?route=common/home

# ? Mar 22, 2018 17:00

Megabound: Oct 20, 2012

ClassH posted:

Hatchbox is having some issues with supplying on amazon. Amz3d filament is the same as Hatchbox on a different spool. (from the same factory I believe). Other option is esun PLA+ which I have had great luck with the fire truck red color.

eSun PLA+ is really drat good. I've had it a multitude of colours and they all perform really well

# ? Mar 23, 2018 01:39

mattfl: Aug 27, 2004

Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:

Bought a 3 pack on ebay for about and they came in about 2 days later. They even come with the screws, so that's cool. Some dude in Texas. Got a 3 pack because hell, it was cheaper than buying 2 separate ones from another seller.

I only put em on the x and y, cause z doesn't really move that fast, and the extruder doesn't seem to be something that needs a dampener.

Only downside was for the Y axis I had to use the screws off the X axis motor mount because they were longer. If you have a hardware store around, the screws are like 20 cents a pop though, so you don't really NEED to recycle em if you want to keep them separate for some reason.

I'm gonna relevel the bed and try to do some prints tonight. I'll update the thread on how it goes.

I also put one of those floor foam mats (those 4 for 8 buck ones from harbor freight) that I cut down under the printer, and that helped kill the noise as well. Loudest thing now is the fan kicking in for the power supply.

Care to share which dampeners exactly you got?

# ? Mar 23, 2018 01:59

Parts Kit: Jun 9, 2006; durr
i have a hole in my head
durr

I've had some good results from a spool of 3d solutech PLA. Got at least halfway through before I decided to switch to a different color and gave hatchbox a try. Can't really say I've noticed any quality difference and the 3d solutech is usually $5-$10 cheaper on amazon.

spoon daddy posted:

I was going to go with Cura to start since it comes bundled so please go ahead and post your settings. And looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me with that website. Thanks!

Sorry I haven't gotten around to posting them, been working 12 hour shifts. Will do so this weekend.

# ? Mar 23, 2018 03:11

LemonLimeTime: May 30, 2011; I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else.

Anyone have any experience 3D printing articulated figures? If so how much did you have to shell out for it? (My city's local library has a 3D printer you can use for free with a library card)

# ? Mar 23, 2018 05:01

Mofabio: May 15, 2003; (y - mx)*(1/(inf))*(PV/RT)*(2.718)*(V/I)

CapnBry posted:

I'm not sure where else to ask this, but my go to source for metric fasteners has always been Mr Metric. They have all the fasteners you'd need to build a 3D printer or assemble anything that came out of a 3D printer. However, last month they announced that they will be closing their shop for good once they've sold all their existing inventory. This is a mighty blow to those of us who need 500pcs M3x25mm stainless screws at 3 cents a piece with 500pcs M3 stainless nuts for half a cent each or just 8pcs M5x40mm with nylock nuts for under a dollar.

Goddamnit now that is some bullshit. MrMetric's how I wish e-commerce shook out. They do one thing and they do it well. What's next, Jetpens? Steve's LEDs? poo poo. Glad I got real baked and put in an $80 order for a lifetime supply of stainless, M2 to M12, couple months back.

# ? Mar 23, 2018 05:36

spoon daddy: Aug 11, 2004; Who's your daddy?; College Slice

Parts Kit posted:

I've had some good results from a spool of 3d solutech PLA. Got at least halfway through before I decided to switch to a different color and gave hatchbox a try. Can't really say I've noticed any quality difference and the 3d solutech is usually $5-$10 cheaper on amazon.

Sorry I haven't gotten around to posting them, been working 12 hour shifts. Will do so this weekend.

No rush I only just got mine unboxed tonight and started to muck with it. I'm curious though what did you tweak relative to the defaults for the mini v2?

So a few newbie questions for the general audience:

Until I get the glass plate installed, is the "glue on the bare metal plate" trick worth it over the black mat that comes with it?

I havent picked up the feelers yet. I could easily spend 20 mins leveling my bed after each print to satisfy the obsessive person in me but it feels like overkill. Should I be doing overkill or will some quick "run a piece of paper under the extruder head in a few spots" tweaks be enough?

Is cleaning filament a de facto requirement before swapping filament colors?

I have an item that has three separate files. They are all small enough to fit on the printing area of my mini, is it worth it to load all three into cura and save them as one file and print that or do I need to print each one separately?

# ? Mar 23, 2018 06:59

kaffo: Jun 20, 2017; If it's broken, it's probably my fault

So, I've discovered first hand the menace of Chinese manufacturers

Turns out the internal bolt inside my hot end was loose, so the last week I've been printing its slowly been leaking plastic inside the cotton insulation around my hot end

Luckily, someone on the group warned me to check and it's not that bad, I'll just need to borrow a heat gun, burn off the excess and tighten the bolt

However, I'm annoyed how hard it was to find out about. It doesn't sound like a rare problem, and it's pretty simple to check and fix, but I've seen very few warnings about it online

Tldr; if you are new to 3d printing, and you just bought a cheap Chinese printer, check the heater block assembly for the love of God. It'll take you like half an hour if you're being slow and careful but getting it right will save you a lot of hassle

# ? Mar 23, 2018 09:17

Listerine: Jan 5, 2005; Exquisite Corpse

Megabound posted:

eSun PLA+ is really drat good. I've had it a multitude of colours and they all perform really well

I've had good luck with them but also seen a lot of variability between colors, yellow and orange printed very differently from each other.

I've also used Verbatim and polylite without much issues.

# ? Mar 23, 2018 09:23

Luminaflare: Sep 23, 2010; No one man
should have all that
POWER BEYOND MEASURE

Is it worth replacing the stock 40mm fan on a Wanhao Dup i3 with a Noctua?

# ? Mar 23, 2018 10:25

kaffo: Jun 20, 2017; If it's broken, it's probably my fault

Luminaflare posted:

Is it worth replacing the stock 40mm fan on a Wanhao Dup i3 with a Noctua?

Talking about replacing fans, I assume it's a piece of cake to add more/different fans as long as you get the voltage right? You just need to run the cable down the run then plug it into a jumper then maybe alter the firmware or are there specifically headers on the board already for extra fans like a PC motherboard?
Also are normal 40mm PC fans totally ok?

# ? Mar 23, 2018 10:37

Parts Kit: Jun 9, 2006; durr
i have a hole in my head
durr

spoon daddy posted:

No rush I only just got mine unboxed tonight and started to muck with it. I'm curious though what did you tweak relative to the defaults for the mini v2?

Off the top of my head the big ones were telling Cura to show ALL settings, setting the initial layer height to something like 0.21875 (from that wiki I linked earlier) so it sticks better, changing the layer pattern direction to [0, 90] so it sticks to the plate better (something with cooling, I don't get it but it works), overriding Cura's default of not having the fan on for the initial layer, setting the PLA temp to 185 initial and 180 after, and slowing down the initial layer speed a fair bit.

I also hosed with the starting and stopping g-code because I found a couple things annoying.

quote:

So a few newbie questions for the general audience:

Until I get the glass plate installed, is the "glue on the bare metal plate" trick worth it over the black mat that comes with it?

I havent picked up the feelers yet. I could easily spend 20 mins leveling my bed after each print to satisfy the obsessive person in me but it feels like overkill. Should I be doing overkill or will some quick "run a piece of paper under the extruder head in a few spots" tweaks be enough?

Haven't tried the glue stick but the black mat works fine.

A few tweaks will be fine if you see issues, but you don't have to do much once you get it dialed in.

# ? Mar 23, 2018 11:48

Luminaflare: Sep 23, 2010; No one man
should have all that
POWER BEYOND MEASURE

kaffo posted:

Talking about replacing fans, I assume it's a piece of cake to add more/different fans as long as you get the voltage right? You just need to run the cable down the run then plug it into a jumper then maybe alter the firmware or are there specifically headers on the board already for extra fans like a PC motherboard?
Also are normal 40mm PC fans totally ok?

I'm not sure about extra fans but replacing fans is as you said, you just plug the fan into the jumper you unplugged the old one from. I'm mostly asking because Noctua's are expensive and I'm not if it's worth the extra cost but the old fan is essentially the loudest part of my printer at the moment so...

# ? Mar 23, 2018 12:01

Obsurveyor: Jan 10, 2003

Luminaflare posted:

I'm not sure about extra fans but replacing fans is as you said, you just plug the fan into the jumper you unplugged the old one from. I'm mostly asking because Noctua's are expensive and I'm not if it's worth the extra cost but the old fan is essentially the loudest part of my printer at the moment so...

Maybe replace it once with a cheap one and see how long it lasts to get an idea of the replacement interval, that will tell you whether its worth springing for the Noctua.

# ? Mar 23, 2018 12:21

Some Pinko Commie: Jun 9, 2009; CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

I will never understand the logic of buying a super cheap printer then spending more money upgrading it than you would have spent just saving up for a Prusa MK* to begin with.

I mean, sure, I buy cheap printers and haven't sprung for a Prusa yet, but I don't waste money on upgrading parts (re-using parts from dead printers doesn't count).

# ? Mar 23, 2018 14:29

ClassH: Mar 18, 2008

biracial bear for uncut posted:

I will never understand the logic of buying a super cheap printer then spending more money upgrading it than you would have spent just saving up for a Prusa MK* to begin with.

I mean, sure, I buy cheap printers and haven't sprung for a Prusa yet, but I don't waste money on upgrading parts (re-using parts from dead printers doesn't count).

I think I already know the answer but is there really anything better than the MK3 around $750? Its a little bit higher price than I would like to go but seems worth it. Currently have the MP Mini v2 and love it but would like a bigger print bed and faster print times.

# ? Mar 23, 2018 14:54

kaffo: Jun 20, 2017; If it's broken, it's probably my fault

biracial bear for uncut posted:

I will never understand the logic of buying a super cheap printer then spending more money upgrading it than you would have spent just saving up for a Prusa MK* to begin with.

I mean, sure, I buy cheap printers and haven't sprung for a Prusa yet, but I don't waste money on upgrading parts (re-using parts from dead printers doesn't count).

My excuse is I really want to learn more about electronics and hardware. Buying an entire new hot end and installing everything myself will probably be pretty rewarding (if I don't gently caress it up)
For everything else, yeah sure, I'd save up and buy a Pursa MK* if I was actually out for best bang/buck or wanting to print poo poo reliably

# ? Mar 23, 2018 16:37

Stupid_Sexy_Flander: Mar 14, 2007; Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?; Grimey Drawer

I just wanted way more print volume.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pcs-NEMA-17-Steel-Rubber-Stepper-Motor-Vibration-Dampers-CNC-3D-Printer/173010151162 is the seller I used for the dampeners.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Mar 23, 2018

# ? Mar 23, 2018 16:41

CapnBry: Jul 15, 2002; I got this goin'; Grimey Drawer

Mofabio posted:

Goddamnit now that is some bullshit. MrMetric's how I wish e-commerce shook out. They do one thing and they do it well. What's next, Jetpens? Steve's LEDs? poo poo. Glad I got real baked and put in an $80 order for a lifetime supply of stainless, M2 to M12, couple months back.

And I was sitting on a large order too, waiting for the M3 nuts to come back in stock and now what!

I've found these other places but none is as economical as Mr Metric was. Bolt Depot and Albany have a pretty good interface unlike most places where each screw is it's own item in the store, they have a page for each diameter + material with all the lengths on it. Sort of like McMaster does. Albany has free shipping on orders over $35 which works out OK for me even if their prices are higher than Mr Metric was.
https://www.trimcraftaviationrc.com/
https://www.boltdepot.com/
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/

# ? Mar 23, 2018 20:44

Stupid_Sexy_Flander: Mar 14, 2007; Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?; Grimey Drawer

Further info on cost.

The Tornado cost me something like 380 with 90$ DHL shipping. It would have been WAY cheaper to not go DHL but I view it as an impatience fee.

The only addons I've gotten have been some smoothers (30 bucks for all 3), some nozzles (which, honestly I think other printers use, but we'll list em at 10 bucks), and some mirrors (5 or 6 pack for 10 bucks frmo lowes), and a heat sink wrap 6 pack? with tape (10 bucks).

I'd say that the smoothers are the only NEEDED item, so if you ignore the dhl shipping, it'd be 300ish, plus another 30 for those. The newer ones apparently don't even need the smoothers, so that's something to consider as well.

The rest is basically optional, and I have a printer that can print 300x300x400mm.

Even adding in the hardware I had to buy for a frame to strengthen the z axis (voluntary, not required, makes i3 printers a bit more stable), that was 40 bucks.

Total I've spent so far would be 380+10+30+10+40 +10= 480, which honestly is still about 300 short of a base mk3, with way more print room.

Granted I didn't get the cheapest possible printer out there, but even with the mods and hardware it's still a hell of a deal. I'd have still ended up needing nozzles for the mk3, but I don't think I'd be doing the mirror printing.

The MK3 is still the gold standard for printing, but for a newbie, a mostly built one for under 400 that has a huge print volume, for basically 400 bucks less? I'm cool with the silver standard at the moment. A fully built MK3 is something like 1000, so when you are a newbie and are looking at complete machines, 300 vs 1000 is a pretty significant difference when you are still looking at if you might enjoy the hobby or not.

Now, this is strictly for the tornado. It might be different for the other printers out there.

# ? Mar 24, 2018 00:19

Acid Reflux: Oct 18, 2004

After a few additions and upgrades, I'm still less than $400 into my TronXY X5S, which is a 330x330x400 CoreXY machine. The biggest extra purchase was the borosilicate plate at ~$35. It prints great at twice the speed of my two moving bed machines, and I'd buy another one in a heartbeat if I had anywhere to put it.

# ? Mar 24, 2018 02:30

Some Pinko Commie: Jun 9, 2009; CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

ClassH posted:

I think I already know the answer but is there really anything better than the MK3 around $750? Its a little bit higher price than I would like to go but seems worth it. Currently have the MP Mini v2 and love it but would like a bigger print bed and faster print times.

"Faster print times" is kind of a minsomer in FDM 3d printing, though.

You can go as fast as you want, but quality suffers at unreasonably high speeds because molten plastic actually requires time to begin to "set" before you hit it with more molten plastic.

# ? Mar 25, 2018 12:46

Dr Hemulen: Jan 25, 2003

What do you guys think of the Velleman series of 3D printers? I'm looking at this one:

https://vertex3dprinter.eu/producten/vertex-delta/

Is there any obvious red flags for a total beginner?

I realize I'm not being a proper nerd about this, as the thing is mostly prebuilt and appears to autocalibrate everything. The cost of course reflects this, but I really like the idea of support and warranty, since I don't have infinite time for troubleshooting. I realize there will be troubleshooting, and lots of it, but I figure this will give me a softer learning curve.
I also really like the delta look.

# ? Mar 25, 2018 18:53

Stupid_Sexy_Flander: Mar 14, 2007; Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?; Grimey Drawer

I don't see the price anywhere, so I dunno what it runs.

However, I do know from what I've gathered over the last couple years, is that deltas a bit more temperamental than the other designs.

Still, it's always nice to have a warranty and some support when you need it. If that's what you go with, good luck with it. I'd love to see how it handles prints.

# ? Mar 25, 2018 19:14

Dr Hemulen: Jan 25, 2003

Thanks. It costs about the same as a Prusa MK3.

# ? Mar 25, 2018 19:16

mattfl: Aug 27, 2004

Had some fun printing this weekend

First time using Hatchbox glow in the dark PLA and this stuff is pretty awesome.

https://imgur.com/a/ioKj2

I'm told I'll need to replace my brass nozzle on my mk2s after using this stuff so I guess I'll start looking for a hardened nozzle soon.

Another low poly car. This one in a nice neon green color because supercars should always be obnoxious colors! Aston Martin Vulcan.

https://imgur.com/a/dwOtO

# ? Mar 25, 2018 21:43

Jestery: Aug 2, 2016; Not a Dickman, just a shape

Hey all, here an interesting problem that just has me bloody stumped.

Problem
My prints struggle to get past the second layer and are squished.

observations
It's seems like my z axis is only moving like 4/5 as much as it should. Causing layers to be excessively smooshed together , especially the first solid infill layers.

So I have flashed firmware to my board with the same values for the motors as my last board.

Attempts to solved
z steps have been repeatedly calibrated and I am using the value that worked well on the board prior. When I move the gantry via the web interface it appears to move the correct amount. (IE. Nominal 10mm is reflected accurately)

E-steps have also been calibrated. 10mm extrusion command get me exactly 10mm extrusion. Lowering extrusion multiplyer doesn't fix this issue

Documentation
Excuse my lovely camera work

The first three layers on a cube
https://youtu.be/AmObGCgSTes

And I printed off some first layers and took detail shots to help diagnose ( because we hate people taking potato photos)

https://imgur.com/a/nqHyw

The 3rd layer just ploughing through the 2nd layer
https://youtu.be/U0rxJPu9u2Y

Detail on this print,
https://i.imgur.com/RMFI4UP.jpg
The 3rd layer is nearly exactly the same height as the second.

Z-axis moving
https://youtu.be/Z1zAhdOYzg0

Interesting points that I feel are linked

-Prints come out one mm too short regardless of height. This error is not proportional to height

Eg
nominal 20mm comes out 19mm
Nominal 40mm comes out 39mm

- Bed is supremely level and at the correct height. Compensating for the lost mm only causes loss of bed adhesion

-this occurs at all layer heights but is most prevalent at thicker layers

current theorys
-Some interaction between z-jerk , z-acceleration and top speed causing z steps to not be expressed

My motor config for a sanity check

code:


; Drives
M569 P0 S0                                ; Drive 0 goes backwards
M569 P1 S0                                ; Drive 1 goes backwards
M569 P2 S0                                ; Drive 2 goes backwards
M569 P3 S0                                ; Drive 3 goes backwards
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I0                   ; Configure microstepping without interpolation
M92 X80 Y80 Z400 E93                      ; Set steps per mm
M566 X1200 Y1200 Z2400 E120               ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X6000 Y6000 Z300 E1200               ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500 Y500 Z100 E5000                 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X800 Y800 Z800 E1000 I30             ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30                                   ; Set idle timeout

- there is something loose on the z-axis and the backlash/play is causing issues

-motor is rooted

I am open to any ideas.

Otherwise my machine is going great, a touch large on the X and Y, but I assume that is the plastic getting smooshed out

Thanks for any help received.

I have truly tried to solve this one

Jestery fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Mar 26, 2018

# ? Mar 26, 2018 00:08

Stupid_Sexy_Flander: Mar 14, 2007; Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?; Grimey Drawer

I honestly dunno, but would voltage being a bit low for Z cause this issue?

# ? Mar 26, 2018 00:31

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 06:13

mewse: May 2, 2006

Jestery posted:

Hey all, here an interesting problem that just has me bloody stumped.

Problem
My prints struggle to get past the second layer and are squished.

observations
It's seems like my z axis is only moving like 4/5 as much as it should. Causing layers to be excessively smooshed together , especially the first solid infill layers.

So I have flashed firmware to my board with the same values for the motors as my last board.

Attempts to solved
z steps have been repeatedly calibrated and I am using the value that worked well on the board prior. When I move the gantry via the web interface it appears to move the correct amount. (IE. Nominal 10mm is reflected accurately)

E-steps have also been calibrated. 10mm extrusion command get me exactly 10mm extrusion. Lowering extrusion multiplyer doesn't fix this issue

Documentation
Excuse my lovely camera work

The first three layers on a cube
https://youtu.be/AmObGCgSTes

And I printed off some first layers and took detail shots to help diagnose ( because we hate people taking potato photos)

https://imgur.com/a/nqHyw

The 3rd layer just ploughing through the 2nd layer
https://youtu.be/U0rxJPu9u2Y

Detail on this print,
https://i.imgur.com/RMFI4UP.jpg
The 3rd layer is nearly exactly the same height as the second.

Z-axis moving
https://youtu.be/Z1zAhdOYzg0

Interesting points that I feel are linked

-Prints come out one mm too short regardless of height. This error is not proportional to height

Eg
nominal 20mm comes out 19mm
Nominal 40mm comes out 39mm

- Bed is supremely level and at the correct height. Compensating for the lost mm only causes loss of bed adhesion

-this occurs at all layer heights but is most prevalent at thicker layers

current theorys
-Some interaction between z-jerk , z-acceleration and top speed causing z steps to not be expressed

My motor config for a sanity check
code:
; Drives
M569 P0 S0                                ; Drive 0 goes backwards
M569 P1 S0                                ; Drive 1 goes backwards
M569 P2 S0                                ; Drive 2 goes backwards
M569 P3 S0                                ; Drive 3 goes backwards
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I0                   ; Configure microstepping without interpolation
M92 X80 Y80 Z400 E93                      ; Set steps per mm
M566 X1200 Y1200 Z2400 E120               ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X6000 Y6000 Z300 E1200               ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500 Y500 Z100 E5000                 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X800 Y800 Z800 E1000 I30             ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30                                   ; Set idle timeout
- there is something loose on the z-axis and the backlash/play is causing issues

-motor is rooted

I am open to any ideas.

Otherwise my machine is going great, a touch large on the X and Y, but I assume that is the plastic getting smooshed out

Thanks for any help received.

I have truly tried to solve this one

Have you got "elephant foot" on your prints? I'm wondering if your extruder starts too low to the bed. Does the extruder easily move upwards if you push up on the nozzle when it's hanging in the air?

If your Z leadscrews are the standard T8 acme rods then steps per mm should be 400

# ? Mar 26, 2018 01:02

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