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tallkidwithglasses posted:Yeah pretty much this. I get that people ITT are clinging to a false belief that a game where you make hundreds of dice rolls over a couple hours is streamlined, but the rot at the heart of 8th is pretty obviously how easy it is to construct detachments and it doesn’t seem unreasonable to impost a penalty for jamming too many keywords into your army. There’s a happy middle ground where you can still take an “imperium” army or chaos undivided or several flavors of bug without going full NO ALLIES LOL like edgelord was discussing or the current implementation where there aren’t any drawbacks. To be clear when I meant streamlining in comparison to its predecessor's. I realize 40k is a more complicated game than something like Chess or MTG is.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:20
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Booley posted:Buying recasts is bad. FW are an excellent company who need to be fully compensated for their amazing sculpting and fantastic quality. It was extremely daring of them to disrupt their own "correctly-oriented bolter" industry
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Mar 23, 2018 23:22
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:7E vs. 8E: Ah yes. That great 8E ork codex. 
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Mar 23, 2018 23:23
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DJ Dizzy posted:Ah yes. That great 8E ork codex. You're a mean person. And a drat dirty Dane 
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Mar 23, 2018 23:24
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DJ Dizzy posted:Ah yes. That great 8E ork codex. I mean, the bare-bones Index Orks are probably still better off than any versions of the Ork codex since like 4th edition. that's how bad they were.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:25
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:7E vs. 8E: I play Orks and I want to forget 6th and 7th. Mostly because my powerklaw nobs kept being killed in challenges before they got to swing and also because of failing 3 inch charges. They did fix hitting vehicles in assault though - swings and roundabouts.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:25
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Yeah pretty much this. I get that people ITT are clinging to a false belief that a game where you make hundreds of dice rolls over a couple hours is streamlined, but the rot at the heart of 8th is pretty obviously how easy it is to construct detachments and it doesn’t seem unreasonable to impost a penalty for jamming too many keywords into your army. There’s a happy middle ground where you can still take an “imperium” army or chaos undivided or several flavors of bug without going full NO ALLIES LOL like edgelord was discussing or the current implementation where there aren’t any drawbacks. You should be able to mix multiple fluff aligned armies to craft a fun narrative. Doing so should not be the automatic choice in the quest for the most powerful army possible. Your mixed space marine + IG army should be less effectively organized (represented in game by fewer command points) rather than more effectively organized, since mixing those armies lets you fill in the weaknesses of different codices.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:27
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As I get re-accustomed to the warhams I have read through 8th ed and goddamn, everythings simplified and so smartly so. I love every thing I have read about the 8th ruleset compared to a lot of how 5th and 7th worked which are the editions I played the most. My friend who owns the local comic store(who was the one who bugged me to get back into this whole mess) says 8th has done wonders for attendance and 40k is now currently the most popular its ever been at the comic store in the 10 or so years he's been doing it. I would have to assume the rules are a big part of it.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:27
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:7E vs. 8E: yet another point in favour of "7th was bad because of things external to what HH takes from it" all this reading about HH makes me want to do a word bearers tbh, shame no one I know of plays it here. maybe when I do a CSM force I'll use the legion models because they're great
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Mar 23, 2018 23:29
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I can totally see "detachment must be the same faction as primary detachment to receive CP bonuses or relics" being a rule that is added either with a CA or in a future 9th edition. Also, my biggest problem with 40k is the fact that its nigh-eternal support for characters means we'll never see a Yarrick who earns a lust for orkfear-imbued psychic power and traitors to lead his own band of imperium gear-enhanced boyz.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:31
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7E Just really, really goddamn hated assault armies. Like I skipped half of 5th and most of 6th and was really stunned at the amount of things that kept you from being able to assault.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:32
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Der Waffle Mous posted:7E Just really, really goddamn hated assault armies. Cant sell them infant sized mechs if they get too emasculated by a barrel of monkeys painted green, sayeth Kirb
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Mar 23, 2018 23:34
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120 new posts in the warhams thread? Wow, did something else cool get announced? ... Oh, it's the same old 30k vs 40k dick waving competition again. Cool. 
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Mar 23, 2018 23:35
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Raphus C posted:I play Orks and I want to forget 6th and 7th. Mostly because my powerklaw nobs kept being killed in challenges before they got to swing and also because of failing 3 inch charges. They did fix hitting vehicles in assault though - swings and roundabouts. Sure. Until an ork codex drops. Y'all act like 8th solved all your problems, when it merely postponed them until the codexdrop.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:35
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Groetgaffel posted:120 new posts in the warhams thread? Y’all gotta learn your place someday.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:38
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You come into MY HOUSE
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Mar 23, 2018 23:39
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DJ Dizzy posted:Sure. Until an ork codex drops. Y'all act like 8th solved all your problems, when it merely postponed them until the codexdrop. I'm not neccessarily a fanboy for any edition, but I do think it's fair to say that since New Gw took flight (arguably with 7e Genestealers codex) there haven't been any "lol gently caress you" codexes released; usually they give a bunch of buffs where needed and do some really light (sometimes too light) reigning-in. I hope weirdboy 'eadbangers become more viable. Also orks get a truck that isn't quizzically squishier than a tide of boyz. E: slapfight solution, GW General Thunderdome. Bring your Sigmar Suckups, your Fantasy Fuckheads, your 30krackheads, your 40kooks, your necromotherfuckers and your blood bastards. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 23:39
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DJ Dizzy posted:Sure. Until an ork codex drops. Y'all act like 8th solved all your problems, when it merely postponed them until the codexdrop. Has any army actively gotten worse from a codex release in 8th yet? I'm genuinely curious.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:40
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Groetgaffel posted:Oh, it's the same old 30k vs 40k dick waving competition again. Cool. This, only unironically.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:41
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I think it was less dick waving and more Schadenboner and AnEdgelord gettign dunked on while other people had conversations.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:42
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I know these are tournament lists and not what people would bring to casual play, but they all seem so cool and good. Lots of flyrant spam, lots of detachments getting mixed for perfect keyword efficiency, a "tyranid" list where the warlord is a brood brothers guard supreme command detachment with a grand strategest/kurov company commander, 2 psykers, a shadowsword and a trojan, a second supreme command detachment with 5 flyrants, and an outrider detachment with 3 gsc sentinels. (that one will be a thread favorite) Most of these don't look anything like armies, they're a random mishmash of units put together. These are the problems with how keywords and detachments work. https://spikeybits.com/2018/03/40k-adepticon-championship-top-16-lists-revealed.html
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Mar 23, 2018 23:45
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Booley posted:I know these are tournament lists and not what people would bring to casual play, but they all seem so cool and good. Lots of flyrant spam, lots of detachments getting mixed for perfect keyword efficiency, a "tyranid" list where the warlord is a brood brothers guard supreme command detachment with a grand strategest/kurov company commander, 2 psykers, a shadowsword and a trojan, a second supreme command detachment with 5 flyrants, and an outrider detachment with 3 gsc sentinels. (that one will be a thread favorite) What would rules to fix this be? -1 CP for a a second army (defined as having nothing higher than a species in common with every other), -3 for a third?
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Mar 23, 2018 23:49
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I hope when the GSC book drops the brood brothers rule becomes that you take guard units in the GSC detachment rather than getting to glue bugs and guard together
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Mar 23, 2018 23:56
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Only allowing relics/stratagems from one faction would help get rid of that list instantly; it's pretty clearly made for getting to use Kurov with Hive Tyrants and Tyranid stratagems. Doesn't make much sense for bugwashed people to have prestigious awards anyways. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 24, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 23:59
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Schadenboner posted:What would rules to fix this be? -1 CP for a a second army (defined as having nothing higher than a species in common with every other), -3 for a third? Start with 5CP instead of 3. If your warlord is in a detachment, gain CP for it as normal (+3 for battalion, +1 for VG/Outrider/Spearhead, etc). Further detachments instead provide negative CP. Remove supreme command detachments entirely. E: on second thought, if your warlord is not in a detachment and it matches all faction keywords (down to regiment/chapter/hive fleet/etc) it provides no CP instead of negative.
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Mar 24, 2018 00:03
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Booley posted:I know these are tournament lists and not what people would bring to casual play, but they all seem so cool and good. Lots of flyrant spam, lots of detachments getting mixed for perfect keyword efficiency, a "tyranid" list where the warlord is a brood brothers guard supreme command detachment with a grand strategest/kurov company commander, 2 psykers, a shadowsword and a trojan, a second supreme command detachment with 5 flyrants, and an outrider detachment with 3 gsc sentinels. (that one will be a thread favorite) Yeah I'm not particularly sympathetic to complaints about mixing different marks of Chaos together because that's always been a very artificial restriction which imo does more harm than good, but I am really tired of 'armies' like that DA one with 8 of the same flyer or 7 identical Tyranid HQ choices and then some individual spores and min-sized Ripper swarms. The 8th detachment system makes stuff like that much too easy since there's functionally 0 restriction on any slot.
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Mar 24, 2018 00:14
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Booley posted:Start with 5CP instead of 3. If your warlord is in a detachment, gain CP for it as normal (+3 for battalion, +1 for VG/Outrider/Spearhead, etc). Further detachments instead provide negative CP. Remove supreme command detachments entirely. After some of the suggestions earlier in the thread this is more or less what I came up with too. I would try it as house rules but nobody actually builds lists like that when people play at my house because I'm not friends with those people.
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Mar 24, 2018 00:22
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Corrode posted:Yeah I'm not particularly sympathetic to complaints about mixing different marks of Chaos together because that's always been a very artificial restriction which imo does more harm than good, but I am really tired of 'armies' like that DA one with 8 of the same flyer or 7 identical Tyranid HQ choices and then some individual spores and min-sized Ripper swarms. The 8th detachment system makes stuff like that much too easy since there's functionally 0 restriction on any slot. Insufficient obligation to "eat your vegetables"?
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Mar 24, 2018 00:26
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Schadenboner posted:Insufficient obligation to "eat your vegetables"? 50% aesthetics, 50% that they're very binary in how they play.
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Mar 24, 2018 00:34
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8th is bad because black templars are a joke in melee
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Mar 24, 2018 00:45
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DJ Dizzy posted:Ah yes. That great 8E ork codex. Lol literally not having a codex, 8th is an improvement for Orks & Tyranids in every conceivable way. I'm game-system-neutral, here--I just wanted to remind people how utterly pudfucked 7th edition was for some armies. HH is fine, go nuts--I'm willing to bet no armies in it have to stop the game to roll on a table to determine how many of their own they get to kill.
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Mar 24, 2018 00:47
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Lol literally not having a codex, 8th is an improvement for Orks & Tyranids in every conceivable way. I'm game-system-neutral, here--I just wanted to remind people how utterly pudfucked 7th edition was for some armies. HH is fine, go nuts--I'm willing to bet no armies in it have to stop the game to roll on a table to determine how many of their own they get to kill. Well, the Nids have a codex and it's pretty needs-suiting from what I've seen. But you're right that the Orks are in better shape with the Index than they have been in, what, two or three editions?
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Mar 24, 2018 00:53
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Forums Terrorist posted:I hope when the GSC book drops the brood brothers rule becomes that you take guard units in the GSC detachment rather than getting to glue bugs and guard together Man with my Sister's army pretty much done till next year(only 15 more models to paint!) I am incredibly tempted to start a GSC force, their model line just look so pretty.
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Mar 24, 2018 00:59
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ijyt posted:Y’all gotta learn your place someday. 
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Mar 24, 2018 01:02
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Lol literally not having a codex, 8th is an improvement for Orks & Tyranids in every conceivable way. I'm game-system-neutral, here--I just wanted to remind people how utterly pudfucked 7th edition was for some armies. HH is fine, go nuts--I'm willing to bet no armies in it have to stop the game to roll on a table to determine how many of their own they get to kill. Sure. If you view lists that are EVEN MORE SPAMMY as an improvement.
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Mar 24, 2018 01:07
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General Olloth posted:I would try it as house rules but nobody actually builds lists like that when people play at my house because I'm not friends with those people. This guy has the real answer.
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Mar 24, 2018 01:10
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Cainer posted:Man with my Sister's army pretty much done till next year(only 15 more models to paint!) I am incredibly tempted to start a GSC force, their model line just look so pretty. I’m really hoping that their codex fixes them up. Being a uniquely 7th Edition army, of all the armies converted to 8th Edition they’ve suffered the most because a large part of their strength was baked into their formations and hasn’t really been accounted for. They’re glass melee-cannons, which look amazing model-wise but are lackluster in battle. If you field them as a GSC/AM combo they can be decent and have a unique flavor, but straight GSC is often pretty disappointing.
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Mar 24, 2018 01:31
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Can't the 30k and 40k factions just get along? This is the dumbest poo poo to argue about. Plus, if you play a marine army - congrats you've got two game systems in one collection of space barbies. 
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Mar 24, 2018 01:38
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To add actual content, There's meant to be an FAQ/Designers notes dropping a couple of days after Adepticon ends. Interesting to see what happens to Aleitoc/Ynnari soup and Dark Reapers
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Mar 24, 2018 01:41
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PierreTheMime posted:I’m really hoping that their codex fixes them up. Being a uniquely 7th Edition army, of all the armies converted to 8th Edition they’ve suffered the most because a large part of their strength was baked into their formations and hasn’t really been accounted for. They’re glass melee-cannons, which look amazing model-wise but are lackluster in battle. If you field them as a GSC/AM combo they can be decent and have a unique flavor, but straight GSC is often pretty disappointing. My counterpoint to this is that if the GSC player has hot dice and rolls a bunch of 6’s for cult ambush they get REALLY scary
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Mar 24, 2018 01:41
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