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hakimashou posted:Abortion and gun control debates are such eerie mirror images of each other that you get anti-gun and anti-abortion people baffled that they're on opposite sides of the fence and calling one another hypocrites. Fetuses. aren't. people.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:31
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Elizabethan Error posted:https://i.imgur.com/WsVdlFh.mp4 I dunno what to tell you. It is a fact that there is a side in the abortion debate that is quote: "arguing for people's lives." "Pro-life" they call themselves, its their argument that abortions kill people. There's an analogous side in the gun debate, for example the recent "March for Our Lives."
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Mar 28, 2018 23:32
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hakimashou posted:I didn't say they were. hakimashou posted:If decades of the abortion debate have taught us anything its that the side arguing for 'people's rights' tends to prevail over the side arguing for 'people's lives.' Okay so if you're not talking about fetuses then whose lives are you talking about here, in the context of abortion? Is it your belief that anti-abortion protesters are primarily concerned about the survival of the mother, rather than the fetus?
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Mar 28, 2018 23:33
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hakimashou posted:I dunno what to tell you. It is a fact that there is a side in the abortion debate that is quote: "arguing for people's lives." "Pro-life" they call themselves, its their argument that abortions kill people.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:34
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hakimashou posted:I dunno what to tell you. It is a fact that there is a side in the abortion debate that is quote: "arguing for people's lives." "Pro-life" they call themselves, its their argument that abortions kill people. But fetuses aren't people, regardless of what anti-abortion people may think. Anti-abortion people aren't arguing for the lives of people
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Mar 28, 2018 23:35
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Elizabethan Error posted:Fetuses. aren't. people. You and I may believe that, but there are lots of people who don't.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:35
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hakimashou posted:You and I may believe that, but there are lots of people who don't.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:36
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hakimashou posted:Abortion and gun control debates are such eerie mirror images of each other that you get anti-gun and anti-abortion people baffled that they're on opposite sides of the fence and calling one another hypocrites. Indeed it is weird how anti-abortion people care so much about the life of the fetus but stop caring as soon as it comes out of the womb. It's almost as though pro-life is a misnomer and that anti-abortion is a more accurate description But on the other hand I actually don't see anything wrong with people being pro-abortion and pro-gun control. That's logically consistent, all that it requires is being able to distinguish between a fetus and a person. QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 23:38
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Clearly we need to arm fetuses so they can act in self defense.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:39
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QuarkJets posted:But fetuses aren't people, regardless of what anti-abortion people may think. Anti-abortion people aren't arguing for the lives of people That doesnt change the structure of their argument at all though, that lives matter more than rights, which is identical to mainstream arguments for gun control.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:40
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hakimashou posted:That doesnt change the structure of their argument at all though, that lives matter more than rights, which is identical to mainstream arguments for gun control. That's not that insightful or relevant to anything though
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Mar 28, 2018 23:43
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Flowers For Algeria posted:That's not that insightful or relevant to anything though The take away is that the gun 'debate' is irreconcilable and never going anywhere, just like the abortion 'debate.' They are permanent wedge issues without a middle ground that is satisfactory enough to both sides. Something like 'ban assault rifles' would be about as popular a compromise as 'ban abortion on saturdays and wednesdays.' hakimashou fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 23:45
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hakimashou posted:That doesnt change the structure of their argument at all though, that lives matter more than rights, which is identical to mainstream arguments for gun control. That's not even their argument. If it were then they would also be in favor of free healthcare for pregnant women, in order to help ensure that the fetus can eventually be delivered (e.g. we all have to sacrifice some of our rights in order to protect that precious life). But they're not in favor of that, so that's not their argument The true structure of their argument is that pregnancy and childbirth are the god-given punishments for a woman having sex and that we shouldn't interfere with the will of god. They don't give a poo poo about life, that much is evident by how little they care about the resulting child that is born. Relating this back to gun control, they feel like they're responsible gun owners, and if god wills that you be shot then that's not their fault and they shouldn't be punished for it. Contrasted against gun control proponents, they really just want to implement sane measures that will reduce the death toll caused by gun ownership. This doesn't even necessarily have to infringe on anyone's rights QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 23:47
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QuarkJets posted:That's not even their argument. If it were then they would also be in favor of free healthcare for pregnant women, in order to help ensure that the fetus can eventually be delivered (e.g. we all have to sacrifice some of our rights in order to protect that precious life). But they're not in favor of that, so that's not their argument I'm not sure people are as rigorously logically consistent as you make them out to be quarkjets.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:50
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hakimashou posted:I'm not sure people are as rigorously logically consistent as you make them out to be quarkjets. You're close to getting it: my entire point is that "pro-life" is a logically inconsistent position whereas "pro-gun control" is logically consistent
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Mar 28, 2018 23:51
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hakimashou posted:Something like 'ban assault rifles' would be about as popular a compromise as 'ban abortion on saturdays and wednesdays.' lol
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Mar 28, 2018 23:53
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QuarkJets posted:You're close to getting it: my entire point is that "pro-life" is a logically inconsistent position whereas "pro-gun control" is logically consistent I dunno about that. You can have a tight consistency with a pro-life stance that takes the form of "it should unlawful for a physician to willingly, knowingly, and deliberately murder [babies]" if you believe that a fetus is the same thing as a baby. The distribution of health care services to women and children doesn't really rise to the level of willful, deliberate, knowing, etc etc, and lots of other things also wouldn't meet that standard. Anyway this is drifting away from the point. If you want to manage your expectations on gun control, peg them to the pro-life movement. A bit of headway here and there, usually on the state and local level. No significant movement at the federal level, and never going to get what they want. Irreconcilable sides, big-picture constitutional hurdles that are insurmountable without an amendment that would never pass. A fervent and deeply sincere crusade to save innocent lives going up against the sincere and steadfast commitment to defend the rights of the individual, with swarms of politicians salivating over the whole thing, forever. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 23:58
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hakimashou posted:You and I may believe that, but there are lots of people who don't. "hahaha i just made this comparison apropos of nothing guys, why would you think i believe this"
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Mar 29, 2018 00:11
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I believe in a thing called love. In case anyone was wondering.
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Mar 29, 2018 00:12
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hakimashou posted:I dunno about that. You can have a tight consistency with a pro-life stance that takes the form of "it should unlawful for a physician to willingly, knowingly, and deliberately murder [babies]" if you believe that a fetus is the same thing as a baby. Lol that you think that state and local level anti abortion poo poo hasn't effectively banned abortion in huge chunks of the country, and are calling that not much headway Shut the gently caress up binch
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Mar 29, 2018 00:43
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abortions are like guns, typed the man with the world’s smoothest brain
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Mar 29, 2018 01:33
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I'm not sure why the onus is on me to become like gun advocates and refuse to stop the innocent loss of life through my own apathy and inaction. My politics are internally consistent so I advocate for reduced abortions and reduced guns, you might even say I feel like the natural state of the universe is to be less of things.
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Mar 29, 2018 02:43
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ReidRansom posted:You poor, poor man. Yes, I have tried it all. A true tragedy. My reaction is awful and horrifying (lots of snot... even with edibles).
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Mar 29, 2018 03:14
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Elizabethan Error posted:noted invention of the late 1700s, semiautomatic rifles. Interestingly enough, yes. The first semiautomatic military rifle was introduced in Austria in the 1780s. The Lewis and Clark expedition actually had one in 1804. The 20 shot Girandoni Air Rifle.
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Mar 29, 2018 04:41
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I believe in a thing called love. Just listen to the rhythm of the (blastocyst) “heart”
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Mar 29, 2018 04:42
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Morning Gun thread, you guys should educate yourselves with more children's cartoons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zw1F7O_Ehk
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Mar 29, 2018 05:15
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Lol that you think that state and local level anti abortion poo poo hasn't effectively banned abortion in huge chunks of the country, and are calling that not much headway That should probably be about the most you expect from gun control as well, if you don't want to be disappointed. Like Roe v Wade, DC v Heller prohibits an explicit ban, but states might be able to carve out effective bans. Time will tell!
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Mar 29, 2018 05:36
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hakimashou posted:That should probably be about the most you expect from gun control as well, if you don't want to be disappointed. Shut up about things you don't understand, namely everything that exists
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Mar 29, 2018 06:31
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That's too angry for quarter to eight man. Have a beer and calm down before you hurt yourself. I'm here if you need to talk.
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Mar 29, 2018 12:51
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What strikes me is how terrible these posters are at sophistry. Like they think they're masterfully leading the non-insane people around the bush by clever word-play and convoluted arguments. It's just posting the same lovely gifs, repeating half remembered lines, and getting dunked on by just about anyone, while the general consensus continues to turn against them.
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Mar 29, 2018 12:57
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Yeah man, sophistry. It's important.
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Mar 29, 2018 13:21
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Just in case anyone was wondering what it looks like when the media is gearing up to canonize a school shooter: Crazed girls flood Parkland school shooter with fan mail The very clear message here being that killing a bunch of kids will get you laid.
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Mar 29, 2018 15:57
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This is evoking a similar feeling as sex-predator laws which end up branding teenagers as sex criminals for sexting with their girlfriends http://wtnh.com/2018/03/28/high-school-senior-suspended-after-a-post-on-social-media/ quote:Zach Cassidento, a high school senior at Amity High Regional School was suspended and arrested as a juvenile after he posted a picture of a toy gun, or what’s called an “airsoft gun,” on Snapchat.  way to keep us all safe from people with Airsoft guns, clearly this is the real problem
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Mar 29, 2018 16:06
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hakimashou posted:Right I didn't infer anything like that. There's a side of the abortion debate that "argues for people's lives." Much like in the gun debate. Not to start a whole other debate, but there's 100% chance that we'll see a constitutional ban on abortion before we see the repeal of the 2nd amendment. I think that's something that the average D&D poster doesn't take into account when they demand that we start repealing rights. edit; i'm probably giving way too much benefit of the doubt to the average poster here, it seems more like 'taking rights away' is the end unto itself. funny how much eurotrash works their way into this thread to tell us how we have too much freedom and should be more like them gobbagool fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 18:13
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gobbagool posted:Not to start a whole other debate, but there's 100% chance that we'll see a constitutional ban on abortion before we see the repeal of the 2nd amendment. I think that's something that the average D&D poster doesn't take into account when they demand that we start repealing rights.
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Mar 29, 2018 18:19
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Elizabethan Error posted:"not to start another debate, but *FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART*" yeah such reasoned debate here, you have flowers for algeria and fishmech arguing over which parts of the constitution they find inconvenient like a bunch of shut ins playing Risk over 2400 baud modems while their flesh slowly becomes one with the couch
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Mar 29, 2018 18:21
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gobbagool posted:yeah such reasoned debate here, you have flowers for algeria and fishmech arguing over which parts of the constitution they find inconvenient like a bunch of shut ins playing Risk over 2400 baud modems while their flesh slowly becomes one with the couch  e: vv I didn't realize rent-a-cop needed someone to defend their shitposting. Elizabethan Error fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 18:25
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Elizabethan Error posted:I'm sorry that you're that committed to shitposting and can't see my point. Jesus loving Christ dude, do you have no self-awareness?
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Mar 29, 2018 18:29
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gobbagool posted:edit; i'm probably giving way too much benefit of the doubt to the average poster here, it seems more like 'taking rights away' is the end unto itself. funny how much eurotrash works their way into this thread to tell us how we have too much freedom and should be more like them Hey, idiot, Eurotrash aren't making you kill people at ludicrously higher rates than the rest of the first world.
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Mar 29, 2018 18:32
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gobbagool posted:yeah such reasoned debate here, you have flowers for algeria and fishmech arguing over which parts of the constitution they find inconvenient like a bunch of shut ins playing Risk over 2400 baud modems while their flesh slowly becomes one with the couch Tell me, what is the well reasoned debate you claimed you didn't want to start but apparently desperately want to have concerning the statistical likelihood of a constitutional abortion ban vs. repeal of 2nd amendment.
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Mar 29, 2018 18:33
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