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Huawei also competes by making nonstandardized products. One phone may have a much worse XYZ than other phones of the same type and this is actually written into the contract of sale.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:22
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Deteriorata posted:And like it or not, people are motivated by money. Holding the exclusive rights to profit from an idea is a potent incentive to innovate. Non profits and universities are making the biggest strides in new Pharmaceuticals. It's not like profit is a requirement.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:22
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Boon posted:Who... are you talking to? Himself. He's trying to use The Secret to prove himself Most Left.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:23
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Boon posted:Who... are you talking to? Dude's nuts. Ask him about Russian hacking if you've got the stomach.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:23
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Well the understood trade for a patent is that the government gives you a monopoly for a limited time and in return you give all the details of how your thing works so that anybody can reproduce it when your monopoly is over.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:24
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Mantis42 posted:Huawei stealing data is scummy but stealing 1st world tech has historically been a way for developing countries to compete. Stolen IP is probably a positive force for downward redistribution of wealth. China's ruling elite and governing class: actually impoverished 3rd-worlders looking merely to equal the western standard of living
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Apr 6, 2018 19:25
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silicone thrills posted:Non profits and universities are making the biggest strides in new Pharmaceuticals. It's not like profit is a requirement. That is simply just not true
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Apr 6, 2018 19:25
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Boon posted:Who... are you talking to? 
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Apr 6, 2018 19:27
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Deteriorata posted:And like it or not, people are motivated by money. Holding the exclusive rights to profit from an idea is a potent incentive to innovate. I think you’ll find very few people are motivated to acquire money for money’s sake, rather than the stability, power and resources our capitalist society demands you have money to have. Our personal motivations are irrelevant in a system that forces labor for money to survive as ours does. Of course everyone is “motivated” to make some money, usually you die if you don’t.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:27
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I currently attend one of the largest public research universities (Minnesota) and I guarantee you that there is a profit motive in our med device center. The profits are obviously redirected into the university but that's not functionally different than a corporation.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:27
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skeleton warrior posted:China's ruling elite and governing class: actually impoverished 3rd-worlders looking merely to equal the western standard of living Glorious People's Party shares profits equally with all!
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Apr 6, 2018 19:28
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Boon posted:I currently attend one of the largest public research universities (Minnesota), and I guarantee you that there is a profit motive there. Agreed.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:28
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Philosophical arguments about the morality of ownership aside, enforcing IP rights is only going to become more and more impractical and disproportionately expensive as time advances, so it doesn't make a great hill to die on.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:29
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IP freely
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Apr 6, 2018 19:30
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skeleton warrior posted:China's ruling elite and governing class: actually impoverished 3rd-worlders looking merely to equal the western standard of living Developing a nation's productive forces does generate new wealth which can, though not necessarily will, be captured by the local economy. Look at the last 40 years of their history.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:31
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Vladimir Putin posted:That is simply just not true I worked for a non profit research company and our partner university was making all the moonshot advances and then pharmaceutical cos would come along and buy up their research. Same thing is happening all over the place. There was some article about it a while back that i'll have to dig around to find.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:35
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big trivia FAIL posted:if you add in that the earliest synoptic (Mark) is generally accepted as being authored around 60 - 70 AD, we more or less have contemporary copies We don't have copies of Mark until about 250 AD though, even though it is thought to have been written ~30-40 years after the death of Jesus. Some of Paul's letters were written around 20 years after the events in the gospels (and also, we think a number of Paul's OTHER letters were forgeries! weeeeeeeeee) Anyway, before anyone tries to get argumentative, I'm not saying "the Bible we have is the inherent word of God", that all the books accurately depict their events, or that they even have the authors they claim to have. But they HAVE been inarguably pretty stable translations since somewhere around 300 AD - in large part because the people who obsess over copying Bibles are huge giant nerds, basically the Wikipedia editors of their day.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:37
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silicone thrills posted:I worked for a non profit research company and our partner university was making all the moonshot advances and then pharmaceutical cos would come along and buy up their research. Same thing is happening all over the place. There was some article about it a while back that i'll have to dig around to find. There's still a profit motive at work. The pharmaceutical company sends grants to the university to do the research, then profits from the resulting IP. Companies used to have their own research divisions. Now they mostly subcontract it out to universities.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:37
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fivegears4reverse posted:This literally makes no sense unless you believe the US magically cannot bomb static islands to pieces for reasons. Those island bases aren't useful strategic platforms. China already has anti-ship ballistic missiles they can launch from the mainland, and it would only take one to knock out a carrier.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:38
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Boon posted:I currently attend one of the largest public research universities (Minnesota) and I guarantee you that there is a profit motive in our med device center. The profits are obviously redirected into the university but that's not functionally different than a corporation. There's a set recourse and peoples whose job it is to examine the ethical implications of choosing a profit margin at reasonable rate. There is a HUGE difference between that and a corporate choice to decide to jack margins up because "gently caress you, the most money for me." I'll take the public university everytime.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:38
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I think Steve Jobs was a jackass and when I had to give a presentation on Patents, etc I presented these: Bragging about taking ideas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU Ranting about android stealing the idea for smartphones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lr8U04gPKM Also, patents are usually garbage and (I need to find the stat) but usually only give a short period of protection before a competing firm duplicates the product without violating the patent. Really, success depends on a lot more than just product design alone (first mover advantage, sustained competitive advantage, company organization, etc.).
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Apr 6, 2018 19:38
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silicone thrills posted:I worked for a non profit research company and our partner university was making all the moonshot advances and then pharmaceutical cos would come along and buy up their research. Same thing is happening all over the place. There was some article about it a while back that i'll have to dig around to find. This is true is most industries though. Large companies in many cases act as a source of capital and view start-ups as a source of R&D. Medtronic for instance active invests into small but promising companies to leverage it's own R&D efforts because, frankly, they don't have the resources to do everything that might benefit them internally. A lot of resources are spent in maintaining competitive advantages in technologies or areas that catapulted them into the position they're in. Non-profits, start-ups, universities - they're all a part of large business strategic plans. BlueBlazer posted:There's a set recourse and peoples whose job it is to examine the ethical implications of choosing a profit margin at reasonable rate. There is a HUGE difference between that and a corporate choice to decide to jack margins up because "gently caress you, the most money for me." Yes, totally but that's more of a market failure scenario (epipen) than anything. Boon fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 19:39
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Boon posted:Who... are you talking to? the voices in his head, the only people close enough to his intellectual level so a discussion isn't a ceaseless embarrassment for him
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Apr 6, 2018 19:40
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theflyingorc posted:Anyway, before anyone tries to get argumentative, I'm not saying "the Bible we have is the inherent word of God", that all the books accurately depict their events, or that they even have the authors they claim to have. But they HAVE been inarguably pretty stable translations since somewhere around 300 AD - in large part because the people who obsess over copying Bibles are huge giant nerds, basically the Wikipedia editors of their day. Although when they screw up it can be really funny.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:40
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silicone thrills posted:I worked for a non profit research company and our partner university was making all the moonshot advances and then pharmaceutical cos would come along and buy up their research. Same thing is happening all over the place. There was some article about it a while back that i'll have to dig around to find. It is driven by the cost of approval. It costs somewhere north of $100 million to get a drug approved. Universities usually don't want to front that kind of cash when it isn't a sure thing. And there are plenty of promising drugs that completely fell apart in testing and the company or university just burned tens of millions with nothing to show for it. So Universities and smaller bio-tech firms develop a "compound" that shows promise then sell it to a drug company so the drug carries the risk of failing in testing, but also gets the rewards if it works out.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:40
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Actually all non-profits are driven by the profit motive because they seek to not spend more money than they have!
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Apr 6, 2018 19:41
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theflyingorc posted:We don't have copies of Mark until about 250 AD though, even though it is thought to have been written ~30-40 years after the death of Jesus. Yeah, there is absolutely no way a person who understands the slightest thing about how the Bible was put together or has actually read its contents could come away with the thought that it was the product of authors measurably influenced by a single timeless source of inerrant truth. Just read the first two chapters of Genesis, which tell two different and non-compatible creation stories.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:42
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VitalSigns posted:It's funny how American workers are expected to dutifully accept losing their jobs and dying of opiate overdoses in order to 'help' Chinese slave labor, but of course the capitalist class is not expected to give up one cent of profit in order to help anyone, Chinese bootleg sellers need to be put out of business in order to make sure the profiteers get their cut of DVD sales in Shanghai. You do realize the IP we're talking about here isn't bootleg games, movies, books, and the like but rather chipset architecture, circuitry design, software code, and other technological information which is used to design, construct, and sell copies of technological equipment overseas and in the US and not just on Chinese street markets, right? And that the Chinese government has regulations with these companies that mandate the inclusion of security holes and flaws which (presumably) only the government knows about to allow for them to monitor anyone using said devices? Yes I know that the NSA has its own shady poo poo here and I do not condone it at all, it should be equally protested and decried khy fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 19:45
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Now I wanna watch IP man
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Apr 6, 2018 19:49
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Bubbacub posted:Those island bases aren't useful strategic platforms. China already has anti-ship ballistic missiles they can launch from the mainland, and it would only take one to knock out a carrier. The ballistic anti-ship missiles are a neat idea. The problem is carriers are a moving target and we've already got development into radar obscuring smoke screens. You run a smoke vessel in front of your important ones and now the ballistic missile has to guess where to hit. I'm not sure if China's system allows for airbursts or other more imprecise detonations. The next stage will be lasers to blow up the incoming missile, but we're not there yet. It probably does make it riskier to move close to mainland China, but out in the ocean it'd be a tough sell unless you were doing a sneak attack.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:50
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khy posted:You do realize the IP we're talking about here isn't bootleg games, movies, books, and the like but rather chipset architecture, circuitry design, software code, and other technological information which is used to design, construct, and sell copies of technological equipment overseas and in the US and not just on Chinese street markets, right? And that the Chinese government has regulations with these companies that mandate the inclusion of security holes and flaws which (presumably) only the government knows about to allow for them to monitor anyone using said devices? Ok, but if you’re saying companies shouldn’t do business with China or the Five Eyes, what options are you leaving?
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Apr 6, 2018 19:50
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khy posted:You do realize the IP we're talking about here isn't bootleg games, movies, books, and the like but rather chipset architecture, circuitry design, software code, and other technological information which is used to design, construct, and sell copies of technological equipment overseas and in the US and not just on Chinese street markets, right? And that the Chinese government has regulations with these companies that mandate the inclusion of security holes and flaws which (presumably) only the government knows about to allow for them to monitor anyone using said devices? The blame is shared by people who just refer to "IP" alone instead of protected industrial processes or anything more descriptive than the term that applies as equally to the crayon drawing I put on my fridge as to a futuristic computer chip design.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:50
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https://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/982327280386084866
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Apr 6, 2018 19:51
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Good.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:52
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Oh gosh, if it keeps falling, it'll almost be where it was on Monday!
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Apr 6, 2018 19:53
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Dietrich posted:Yeah, there is absolutely no way a person who understands the slightest thing about how the Bible was put together or has actually read its contents could come away with the thought that it was the product of authors measurably influenced by a single timeless source of inerrant truth. I learned about it from this thread, but the Sunday School Dropouts podcast is an amazing and hilarious way to learn about the bible. http://sundayschooldropouts.lol/
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Apr 6, 2018 19:53
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Fallom posted:The blame is shared by people who just refer to "IP" alone instead of protected industrial processes or anything more descriptive than the term that applies as equally to the crayon drawing I put on my fridge as to a futuristic computer chip design. But then the issue becomes many people don’t care if Intel or Boeing get some industrial process secret stolen. For consumers the only impact is it improves the quality of Chinese knockoffs.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:53
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Krispy Wafer posted:The ballistic anti-ship missiles are a neat idea. The problem is carriers are a moving target and we've already got development into radar obscuring smoke screens. You run a smoke vessel in front of your important ones and now the ballistic missile has to guess where to hit. I'm not sure if China's system allows for airbursts or other more imprecise detonations. The next stage will be lasers to blow up the incoming missile, but we're not there yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5_AKWcimY0&t=72s
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Apr 6, 2018 19:53
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VitalSigns posted:It's funny how American workers are expected to dutifully accept losing their jobs and dying of opiate overdoses in order to 'help' Chinese slave labor, but of course the capitalist class is not expected to give up one cent of profit in order to help anyone, Chinese bootleg sellers need to be put out of business in order to make sure the profiteers get their cut of DVD sales in Shanghai. Why are you anti IP guys repeatedly using bootlegging DVDs as your go to example? Considering all the people who get a cut off the sale of DVDs who have nothing to do with being multibillion dollar companies, it's among to worst things to point at in an argument about sticking it to the man on behalf of the people. Helping the people by loving Unions, that'll show Capitalism!
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Apr 6, 2018 19:54
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HootTheOwl posted:Himself. He's trying to use The Secret to prove himself Most Left.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:58
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