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You know, I'm thinking about rewatching it with that post in mind. I've always more or less agreed with the "it's out of character" crowd.
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Apr 7, 2018 22:45
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Hipster_Doofus posted:You know, I'm thinking about rewatching it with that post in mind. I've always more or less agreed with the "it's out of character" crowd. Make sure its not the tv cut/version.
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Apr 7, 2018 22:53
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I think maybe what was missing was just getting a taste of regular Picard before the darkness set in. He's basically in trauma/combat mode from scene one which makes it feel like a different character.
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Apr 7, 2018 23:15
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Even DS9 picked up on Picard's PTSD, in the opening episode. Sisko was at Wolf 359 and lost his wife there, so he's very cold with Picard at first. Picard eventually asks him what's up, and the moment Sisko says he was the first officer of the Saratoga at Wolf 359, Picard's face falls like a ton of bricks.
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Apr 7, 2018 23:29
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Nah that's Patrick Stewart not Picard. He forgot his next line and they saved the shot by cutting before he looks to the director.
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Apr 8, 2018 00:05
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Sometimes the best acting is accidental
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Apr 8, 2018 00:15
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Sometimes the best acting is accidental it's absolutely shocking how much the editor controls what audiences perceive as the performance of actors.
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Apr 8, 2018 00:18
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haha i'm just joshing you there's not even a cut there
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Apr 8, 2018 00:20
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Makes sense. Often times the best acting is on purpose.
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Apr 8, 2018 00:22
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Makes sense. Often times the best acting is on purpose. editors really don't have as much control as you think, it's all about the performance
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Apr 8, 2018 00:31
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That was great, guys.
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Apr 8, 2018 00:36
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Hipster_Doofus posted:You know, I'm thinking about rewatching it with that post in mind. I've always more or less agreed with the "it's out of character" crowd. I love the episode Family for the Picard stuff, but it did feel like they shrugged off a lot of Picard’s mental trauma after that episode. They touched on it a little bit in I, Borg and Descent, but the latter was mostly a Data episode.
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Apr 8, 2018 01:24
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s absolutely in character. How do you even deal mentally with the idea that you were basically forced to watch as you killed something like 30,000 people, and you couldn’t really fight back against it? I can’t even contemplate it. Then several years later that same force shows up again and threatens to not only wipe out Earth, but his crew and history itself, forcing countless billions into mental slavery just like he was forced to endure. Well originally they weren’t even going to do Family, it was just going to be back to normal the next week.
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Apr 8, 2018 01:30
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marktheando posted:Well originally they weren’t even going to do Family, it was just going to be back to normal the next week.
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Apr 8, 2018 01:32
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I just like seeing Picard not be flawless perfect Picard. The sensible level headed strong willed but rightous and confidant captain's captain at all times. Some of my favorite episodes were the ones that played with his flaws, and thats part of why First Contact also really sticks out to me.
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Apr 8, 2018 01:55
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Alright, I just watched It’s Only a Paper Moon. Vic is pretty good. The whole ‘stop the episode for 3-4 minutes to sing a song’ still annoys me though.
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Apr 8, 2018 02:00
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Isn't that a montage though?
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Apr 8, 2018 02:08
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I'm in the "out of character" camp myself, though it's more about the execution than the concept. A lot of that has to do with the Borg becoming more standard sci-fi villains than the barely-comprehensible other they were in their first appearances, and that the "de-assimilation" in "I, Borg" is a more interesting concept than anything in First Contact. Having said that: Drink-Mix Man posted:I think maybe what was missing was just getting a taste of regular Picard before the darkness set in. He's basically in trauma/combat mode from scene one which makes it feel like a different character. This would have gone a long way toward selling Movie Picard. While we're doing "What-If" TNG movie fanfics, I would have loved to see their equivalent of Voyage Home, especially after First Contact. Something lighter, looser, and character-based. DS9 was great at knowing when to throw in those kinds of stories, but Big Screen Trek never got a chance in the Berman era. The_Doctor posted:Alright, I just watched It’s Only a Paper Moon. Vic is pretty good. The whole ‘stop the episode for 3-4 minutes to sing a song’ still annoys me though. There's an exception for when Avery Brooks is singing, though. Time can't be measured because the world is standing still.
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Apr 8, 2018 03:51
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After The War posted:While we're doing "What-If" TNG movie fanfics, I would have loved to see their equivalent of Voyage Home, especially after First Contact. Something lighter, looser, and character-based. DS9 was great at knowing when to throw in those kinds of stories, but Big Screen Trek never got a chance in the Berman era. I'm pretty sure that's what Insurrection was shooting for. Personally I think the tone shift they were going for was the right move, but they botched the execution.
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Apr 8, 2018 03:56
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Coldly executing his own crew members when they're captured was out of character and not something TV Picard would ever do, PTSD or no. He constantly risked his ship to save one person, even strangers. That's something a Cardassian would do. Or fascist Earth in the Starship Troopers movie.
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Apr 8, 2018 05:01
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I think maybe what was missing was just getting a taste of regular Picard before the darkness set in. He's basically in trauma/combat mode from scene one which makes it feel like a different character. I don't know, there's the scene where he's geeking out over getting to touch the Phoenix. And he's still got his Dixon Hill programs ready to run at a moment's notice.
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Apr 8, 2018 05:39
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VitalSigns posted:Coldly executing his own crew members when they're captured was out of character and not something TV Picard would ever do, PTSD or no. He constantly risked his ship to save one person, even strangers. True, especially considering we know from his own example that the assimilation is reversible.
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Apr 8, 2018 06:27
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I have to admit, though, given all the poo poo that Picard had been through his entire career and particularly the last decade, he believably would be a little mental by the time of First Contact. Let's see, we've got: -Getting stabbed through the heart -Getting his best friend and crush's husband killed -Getting his first ship destroyed -Turning into some sort of non-corporeal energy being and back -Meeting then later executing his broken-brained future self -Exploding a guy's head like a Gallagher watermelon then seeing his torso getting eaten inside-out by a giant parasite -Being mutilated and forced to commit acts of mass murder against his own people -Being brutally tortured old-school style in a cave -Dying on an operating table then being forced to re-live being stabbed through the heart -Living an entire lifetime of another man, leading up to the destruction of his entire species -Being tricked into the time-travel genocide of his own species (and the entire galaxy), the only solution being to order his crew of 2,000 people to their deaths not once, not twice, but thrice -Learning his brother and nephew burned to death in a fire then later that week witnessing the destruction of all life on another planet; going to literal heaven then ripping himself away only to come back to his beloved ship laying in pieces on the ground. The entire time, he's estranged from his family and has no love life. And yet we all laugh at the idea that Starfleet wants a psychiatrist to sit next to him at all times on the bridge.
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Apr 8, 2018 06:57
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Drink-Mix Man posted:The entire time, he's estranged from his family and has no love life. That's not true, there was Vash, then there was one of his subordinate officers.
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Apr 8, 2018 07:38
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VitalSigns posted:Coldly executing his own crew members when they're captured was out of character and not something TV Picard would ever do, PTSD or no. He constantly risked his ship to save one person, even strangers. Drink-Mix Man posted:True, especially considering we know from his own example that the assimilation is reversible. Picard's assimilation reversal was only possible because an unusual series of events took place, most of which involved a concerted effort of Starfleet's finest to save one person from the collective. And, it only just loving barely worked: had Picard not said the word "sleep" while everyone was watching and Data was was half connected to his brain, they wouldn't have been able to disable that one cube, and without doing that, they wouldn't have been able to save Picard. And at the moment they did all of that, the Enterprise wasn't currently already 1/4th assimilated into the Borg collective, they had backup available, and... oh, about a dozen other things that make these situations substantially different. The guy he shot wasn't "captured" by the enemy. He was actively being changed into the enemy against his will, and there was no reason to expect that he'd have any chance of being saved because at that moment, they were actively under attack and losing men and decks wholesale to the Borg at that very moment. Picard shooting Ensign R. Shirtman and Picard being de-assimilated are not comparable events. Even a cursory examination of the circumstances immediately reveals numerous reasons why.
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Apr 8, 2018 08:06
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Kirk hosed his ship.
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Apr 8, 2018 08:53
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Geeze, guys, why didn't Picard just set his phaser to 'deassimilate'?!
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Apr 8, 2018 09:07
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Just finished watching the DS9 episode 'Move Along Home.' So bad. So very bad. PSA: if you see somebody winning a game in a crooked casino for hours on end that has no more interaction on the player's part than either agreeing to keep playing or not, that person isn't 'good at games.' They're cheating. That's what cheating looks like. And they don't get to take the moral highground when the house notices it and decides to rig the table instead of kicking the cheating scumbag's rear end.
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Apr 8, 2018 10:04
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:That's not true, there was Vash, then there was one of his subordinate officers. Also the inner light guy’s wife
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Apr 8, 2018 12:10
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skasion posted:Also the inner light guy’s wife hosed up that the guy who programmed that probe included detailed simulations of doing his wife while she nags you about putting your shoes away. But I guess we have have no moral standing to judge alien cultures.
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Apr 8, 2018 13:08
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bull3964 posted:But I guess Picard can yell and smash models. I just liked the gif for funny humor reasons, I didn't mean to spawn a 3 page derail about Picard's motivation.
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Apr 8, 2018 14:28
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teamcharlie posted:Just finished watching the DS9 episode 'Move Along Home.' So bad. So very bad. Lmao u don't know how Dabo works
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Apr 8, 2018 14:29
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The Bloop posted:Lmao u don't know how Dabo works Isn't it just roulette, but IN SPACE?
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Apr 8, 2018 14:42
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Epicurius posted:Isn't it just roulette, but IN SPACE? The point is that we don't actually know.
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Apr 8, 2018 15:34
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It's a combination of roulette, poker, and Monopoly. All the human games a Ferengi might enjoy, slammed into one.
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Apr 8, 2018 15:39
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It's a combination of roulette, poker, and Monopoly. All the human games a Ferengi might enjoy, slammed into one. You're thinking of tongo.
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Apr 8, 2018 15:46
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It's implied there's an element of skill in Dabo.Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It's a combination of roulette, poker, and Monopoly. All the human games a Ferengi might enjoy, slammed into one. That sounds more like Tongo.
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Apr 8, 2018 15:50
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Arglebargle III posted:Nah that's Patrick Stewart not Picard. He forgot his next line and they saved the shot by cutting before he looks to the director. Drink-Mix Man posted:Sometimes the best acting is accidental Dr. Fishopolis posted:it's absolutely shocking how much the editor controls what audiences perceive as the performance of actors. Arglebargle III posted:haha i'm just joshing you there's not even a cut there Drink-Mix Man posted:Makes sense. Often times the best acting is on purpose. Dr. Fishopolis posted:editors really don't have as much control as you think, it's all about the performance You fuckers planned this, didn't you? That was goddamned amazing.
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Apr 8, 2018 16:28
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FabioClone posted:Kirk hosed his ship. So the real question then is, did he cheat on the ship with the mountain, or did he cheat on the mountain with the ship?
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Apr 8, 2018 16:43
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There was no planning involved
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Apr 8, 2018 16:54
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