|
Kibayasu posted:It’s more that DS9 gets better by developing its own identity rather than the objective quality going up. Very few episodes ever dip below “okay” and it’s even rarer that there’s an episode that doesn’t serve to at least better a character in even some small way. I think both things are true. DS9 has the best first season out of all the treks except TOS, but that's frankly a pretty low bar to clear. The reason it works despite its aimlessness is that both the writing and actors were strong from the get-go, they were coming straight off a great season of TNG. That said, it's super clear in retrospect that the premise of the show wasn't going to carry it forward. Western frontier town in space is great, but not if nothing happens. The whole first season feels like somewhat aimless character building, and honestly 20 episodes is 12 too many for that sort of thing. It's competent, but bland. What's weird is that Babylon 5 suffered similarly in the first season, despite the series arc being planned out from day one, so maybe it was just a 90s thing. But man, both those shows got real, real good mid-second season. Babylon 5, of course, is better overall. Fight me.
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 01:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 22:19 |
|
|
Duet is the best non-TOS first season episode of Star Trek, ever. And that qualification is only because season one TOS had poo poo like Balance of Terror and City on the Edge of Forever. It's certainly Star Trek's best bottle show.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 01:31
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:I think both things are true. DS9 has the best first season out of all the treks except TOS, but that's frankly a pretty low bar to clear. The reason it works despite its aimlessness is that both the writing and actors were strong from the get-go, they were coming straight off a great season of TNG. That said, it's super clear in retrospect that the premise of the show wasn't going to carry it forward. Western frontier town in space is great, but not if nothing happens. The whole first season feels like somewhat aimless character building, and honestly 20 episodes is 12 too many for that sort of thing. It's competent, but bland. The individual elements of DS9 are better in almost every way than B5. B5 is still better overall.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
B5 has a slow start because if you leap right into your epic war for the fate of the universe with no set up, no one gives a gently caress. DS9 stumbled onto this same point by riffing off the working model of TNG until they got a chance to try a prolonged plot arc, but in B5 it’s intentional structural element of the story. JMS cited the example of Lord of the Rings in this case. The whole book is about the War of the Ring, but we don’t actually see more than small skirmishes in that war until Helm’s Deep, almost halfway through. Before that time, hundreds of pages are spent establishing the nature of the conflict, why it has to happen, and how the various characters get caught up in it. Because of that, when the war does break out it is infinitely more dramatic and engaging. We aren’t just told what the stakes are, we actually know. Some Star Trek shows could probably stand to learn something from that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 02:03
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:DS9 had the clearest sense of identity of all the Star Treks, in my opinion. It's a town on the Western frontier, and Sisko is the newly arrived marshal here to keep order. He's grizzled and scarred but has a tender heart like a good Western protagonist should, and brought his son and long-standing partner who's his opposite in personality with him. Bashir is the bright young genius from back east who wants to make a name for himself. Odo's the local sheriff who's none too happy to have a fed looking over his shoulder, Quark's the odd but dangerously intelligent foreigner (running with the Western theme, he's probably Chinese) who runs the local saloon, O'Brien is the local handyman and carpenter everyone relies on, Kira's the hot-tempered representative of the local Native Americans, and Dukat's the greasy executive from the Company that has designs on the area.  Dammed if I never saw that before. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 02:06
|
|
|
So what was the overall opinion on discovery session one? I'm almost to the end of it and I'm not sure how I feel. I like some of it but things like changing the klingons and the super awesome technology that we must classify and never discuss again are groan worthy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 03:34
|
|
|
Discovery is a series that hasn't figured out where to boldly go yet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 03:46
|
|
|
Wise Fwom Yo Gwave posted:Discovery is a series that hasn't figured out where to boldly go yet. War Crimes are bad but needed to protect our freedoms, it boldly went there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 03:53
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:War Crimes are bad but needed to protect our freedoms, it boldly went there. It also boldly went to "Tits, gore, rape, cannibalism, and piss are exactly what Star Trek needed."
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 04:02
|
|
|
I write these posts and walk myself right into these traps. Sheesh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 04:13
|
|
|
life imitates art https://i.imgur.com/Mk3FFhw.gifv I have f.lux on my computer so my monitor is really yellow right now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 04:16
|
|
|
I keep clicking replay on this, it's been 12 hours now please send help
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 07:10
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:It also boldly went to "Tits, gore, rape, cannibalism, and piss are exactly what Star Trek needed." Discovery might be the reason I'm so receptive to DS9.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 09:19
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:It also boldly went to "Tits, gore, rape, cannibalism, and piss are exactly what Star Trek needed." Only one of these things amounted to anything more than a throwaway line or seconds-long scene.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 09:52
|
|
|
I don't remember the piss.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 09:57
|
|
|
womb with a view posted:I don't remember the piss. I believe that’s in reference to what the kids call the ‘ole Qo’nos double wang job.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 10:00
|
|
|
piss has a long and honored place in star trek http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Urination
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 10:12
|
|
|
quote:Among non-canon Star Trek publications, one of the more unusual topics brought up in the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual is that Vulcan physiology naturally recycles their bodily fluids so much (to save water, living on a desert world) that their urine is thick and black like crude oil. spock pisses crude oil
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 10:13
|
|
|
FabioClone posted:spock pisses crude oil Black gold! Texas tea!
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 10:36
|
|
|
Discovery is good. The change from whatever Bryan Fuller was planning to the new show-runners’ thing caused some problems, the Klingon storyline is a mess, but it’s the strongest first season any Trek show has had, except for TOS. It has a very strong main cast, everyone is an excellent actor, and visually it’s top stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 11:25
|
|
|
Kingtheninja posted:So what was the overall opinion on discovery session one? I'm almost to the end of it and I'm not sure how I feel. I like some of it but things like changing the klingons and the super awesome technology that we must classify and never discuss again are groan worthy. Tilly owns, Saru rules, Stametz is awesome, Mudd was alright, Lorca Did Nothing Wrong
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 12:04
|
|
|
On the subject of DISCO, we have a new Pike
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 12:12
|
|
|
marktheando posted:It has a very strong main cast, everyone is an excellent actor, and visually it’s top stuff. Half the "main cast" got essentially no dialog for an entire season, unless you think people on screen every episode as bridge crew don't count.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 12:45
|
|
|
Veotax posted:On the subject of DISCO, we have a new Pike Huh, he looks pretty close to Jeffrey Hunter.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 13:40
|
|
|
They should've gone with April if they absolutely had to have 1701 in Discovery imho.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 13:45
|
|
|
The time period is correct to have Pike. The Enterprise is a surprisingly old ship
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 13:46
|
|
|
"Would you call me an 'aged man-of-war'? She's not old. She's in her prime."
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Only one of these things amounted to anything more than a throwaway line or seconds-long scene. Ok, whew, for a second there I thought those things had no place in Trek whatsoever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:"Would you call me an 'aged man-of-war'? She's not old. She's in her prime." He's wrong though HMS Surprise was built like 35 years before he says this and he's too old to be commanding a frigate as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:Ok, whew, for a second there I thought those things had no place in Trek whatsoever. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Breast But really I agree with you completely that that poo poo cheapens the franchise
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 17:07
|
|
|
marktheando posted:Discovery is good. The change from whatever Bryan Fuller was planning to the new show-runners’ thing caused some problems, the Klingon storyline is a mess, but it’s the strongest first season any Trek show has had, except for TOS. It has a very strong main cast, everyone is an excellent actor, and visually it’s top stuff. I've encountered so few people IRL that even made it past the first episode, and fewer still that didn't laugh at what followed that I can only conclude posts like these are an attempt to illicit some sort of strong negative emotional reaction I virtually guarantee that the main reason anybody even asks about STD at this point is the brand name, and not any real buzz generated by the show itself
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 17:22
|
|
|
There are a lot of nerds in my department at at school including one person with a Star Trek tattoo, and none of them have watched any discovery.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:He's wrong though HMS Surprise was built like 35 years before he says this and he's too old to be commanding a frigate as well. She's still a good ship, much like the Enterprise. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
I have watched all of official Star Trek including all of Discovery. It was "OK" There were high points and some promise, but an awful lot of  I'm hopeful, but it's an uphill climb at this point. Orville was better, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 19:06
|
|
|
I have one quasi-online quasi-irl friend who likes Discovery and says Saru is the best developed character in all of Trek. I'm not sure what to make of this. What I saw of Saru I did like well enough, in the 3 episodes I watched before giving up. I'm still thinking it's probably not worth going through all the rest of it just for one character though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 19:09
|
|
|
Saru is definitely the high point, but cannot be the best developed character because they still haven't decided how his Racial Characteristic works and also there's been one season. Saru is good but that person is dumb and doesn't know about Kirk, Picard, Garak, Sisko, The Doctor, etc, apparently.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 19:13
|
|
|
"alien viewpoint" characters are typically more popular because they do get more development, Saru hasn't really gotten to do anything except go crazy once and Be in charge of the ship for 10 minutes though. Compared to the rest of the crew he's not bad I imagine season 2 will be more coherent because they aren't picking up the pieces of Bryan Fuller's ideas, and possibly even better if CBS is on the hook for more of the production costs and they're aware of the backlash.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 19:19
|
|
|
He's also the one person to call out the protagonist Michael for the terrible loving person that she is, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 19:33
|
|
|
Astroman posted:Tilly owns, Saru rules, Stametz is awesome, Mudd was alright, Lorca Did Nothing Wrong A post that is very important, and true
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 19:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 22:19 |
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:She's still a good ship, much like the Enterprise. She's no match for a British 32 much less the American 44.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2018 20:09
|
|