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gently caress, I may have started the "nuclear war is coming" looting and pillaging prematurely.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:17
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this might be nothing but flights from shanghai-telaviv have been cancelled in anticipation for the coming campaign https://twitter.com/AJABreaking/status/984128212954312704
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Apr 11, 2018 19:18
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Al-Saqr posted:I'm putting my money down now:- a strike isnt going to happen, and thanks to trump's bluster Americas credibility as a power projection force has been permanently destroyed. Yeah it'll be kind of funny if Trump ends up embarrassing the US's image even more than Obama's red line did. That doesn't mean I support a strike though. It'll either a) be like last year where it's ultimately for show or b) the prelude to yet another disastrous invasion and who knows what kind of response from Russia.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:22
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Brown Moses posted:Remember when Russia was saying there wasn't even a chemical attack in Douma? Those days are over! The same way as the American invasion of Iraq destroyed those WMDs no doubt. ...wait...
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Apr 11, 2018 19:37
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Welp, I guess no decision yet today. Maybe tommorow's the day everyone dies. Only the chaos president knows.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:53
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CrazyLoon posted:Welp, I guess no decision yet today. Maybe tommorow's the day everyone dies. Only the chaos president knows. what makes you say that? he's still meeting with mattis right now if the reports are there.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:55
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Where were all the cool heads from last night? And now you're all chicken littling over an invasion that may not even start a war with russia, much less a nuclear one?
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Apr 11, 2018 19:57
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Grouchio posted:Where were all the cool heads from last night? And now you're all chicken littling over an invasion that may not even start a war with russia, much less a nuclear one? I, for one, do not think it's entirely unfounded to remain constantly nervous about any and all potential actions undertaken by President McShits Himself now that he's backed by his favorite national security adviser with a gore fetish.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:02
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Grouchio posted:Where were all the cool heads from last night? And now you're all chicken littling over an invasion that may not even start a war with russia, much less a nuclear one? A limited strike and muted response from Russia is still by far the most likely scenario, but having either a madman or an idiot playing a madman in the driver's seat doesn't help anyone's nerves. What I mean by that is that on some level I think our response has to be proportional. Assad broke the rules, so we slap him down a bit, but if we try to fundamentally alter the strategic map of the country by going after Assad hard, thereby undoing years of hard work by Russia, I think Putin has to do something or else he looks like an even bigger pussy than Trump does if he does nothing in the first place. Aside from Trump's bluster there's not much reason to think we'll push that hard though--the US doesn't actually want Assad to fall anymore, because creating a power vacuum again at this late stage just increases the carnage in the country. I think the maximum effort that's realistic (which is still probably bigger than what we'll get) is for the US to go all in on sealing the Iraqi border with Syria, but it's pretty hard to say that's a proportional response to the chemical attack. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 20:03
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Office Pig posted:I, for one, do not think it's entirely unfounded to remain constantly nervous about any and all potential actions undertaken by President McShits Himself now that he's backed by his favorite national security adviser with a gore fetish. This plus while having Pompeo and Haley, two people with open disdain for the UN and any possibility of working with other countries. Like...if the US wanted to alienate the rest of the world and shatter any and all reliable communication (super loving dangerous during any kind of crisis event, the likelihood of which will go up with Bolton around now), it's doubtful much could beat this combo. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 20:12
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CrazyLoon posted:This plus while having Pompeo and Haley, two people with open disdain for the UN and any possibility of working with other countries. Like...if the US wanted to alienate the rest of the world and shatter any and all reliable communication (super loving dangerous during any kind of crisis event, the likelihood of which will go up with Bolton around now), it's doubtful much could beat this combo.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:27
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Grouchio posted:Wouldn't that also allow for a period of isolation after 2020? Unless it's Bernie, the next Democratic nominee's probably going to be somewhere between Obama and Hillary on foreign policy. Even relative isolationists in the US are pretty hawkish, and the foreign policy establishment in both parties tries very hard to make sure anyone with dovish instincts gets dragged back to somewhere in the range of what's considered respectable opinion, which means pretty heavy engagement. It's worth remembering that even a lot of Democrats thought Obama was kind of a wimp on foreign policy, and he murked bin Laden, authorized drone strikes all over the place, and overthrew a dictator.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:29
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Sinteres posted:Unless it's Bernie, the next Democratic nominee's probably going to be somewhere between Obama and Hillary on foreign policy. Even relative isolationists in the US are pretty hawkish, and the foreign policy establishment in both parties tries very hard to make sure anyone with dovish instincts gets dragged back to somewhere in the range of what's considered respectable opinion, which means pretty heavy engagement. It's worth remembering that even a lot of Democrats thought Obama was kind of a wimp on foreign policy, and he murked bin Laden, authorized drone strikes all over the place, and overthrew a dictator.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:35
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Doesn't the combination of Obama's red line and the current president being an unpredictable senile megalomaniac with no filter between his thoughts, words, and actions kinda already bankrupt the US in terms of military credibility and assumption of rational decision-making? I can't imagine that a lot of nations are really counting on the US doing what it says at this point, not that I'm a foreign policy government official or anything but I feel like everyone should just be planning for both sides of whatever decisions they see being available to the US. Certainly Russia wouldn't be too surprised at any particular action the US feels like taking when a picture of dead civilians floats across Trump's twitter?
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Apr 11, 2018 20:38
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Grouchio posted:Hmm. Just wishful thinking that America could afford to allot its budget and time more towards cleaning up house, eh? The military/VA, social security and medicare are basically the only reliable sources of welfare in the nation, so. Yes. Wishful thinking.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:43
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ChairMaster posted:Doesn't the combination of Obama's red line and the current president being an unpredictable senile megalomaniac with no filter between his thoughts, words, and actions kinda already bankrupt the US in terms of military credibility and assumption of rational decision-making? We've had two Presidents in a row start their terms in office with promises of a big reset (hell they even made that button with the hosed up translation) of relations with Russia. Shortly afterwards relations soured and they've now both promised that Syria is going to be a disaster for Russia. There's at least some consistency. Edit: Hell let's keep it going and have Trump make a deal with Russia to get chemical weapons out of Syria. Second time's a charm right?
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Apr 11, 2018 20:44
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ChairMaster posted:Doesn't the combination of Obama's red line and the current president being an unpredictable senile megalomaniac with no filter between his thoughts, words, and actions kinda already bankrupt the US in terms of military credibility No. ChairMaster posted:and assumption of rational decision-making? Getting warmer. There are a lot more countries out there afraid of the US arbitrarily deciding to do whatever it wants than there are countries worrying that the US is suddenly going to disappear as a force in the world.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:53
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ChairMaster posted:Doesn't the combination of Obama's red line and the current president being an unpredictable senile megalomaniac with no filter between his thoughts, words, and actions kinda already bankrupt the US in terms of military credibility and assumption of rational decision-making?
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Apr 11, 2018 20:54
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https://twitter.com/StratSentinel/status/984156293903650817
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Apr 11, 2018 20:57
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The most popular videogame in the Middle East is Sonic Heroes.
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Apr 11, 2018 21:07
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Sinteres posted:No. I didn't mean credibility in terms of "the ability to do things", I more meant in terms of "will actually do what they say they'll do". I think I phrased it poorly.
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Apr 11, 2018 21:09
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rear end posted:The most popular videogame in the Middle East is Sonic Heroes. Carpet bomb them all.
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Apr 11, 2018 21:12
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ChairMaster posted:I didn't mean credibility in terms of "the ability to do things", I more meant in terms of "will actually do what they say they'll do". I think I phrased it poorly. Obama's red line aside, countries are still more afraid of the US overreacting than not living up to its promises. Hawks love the idea that the US has to maintain its credibility at all costs, preferably by bombing the gently caress out of everything that moves, but it's still pretty atypical for countries to disbelieve us when we say we'll do something. Arguably even the chemical attack last year and even this one had more to do with Assad believing Trump when he endorsed Assad's continued rule of the country last year and then talked about withdrawing from the country last week than with him thinking the US is full of poo poo. I still think the negotiated deal Kerry made was more effective than the slap on the wrist last year, it's just the media doesn't get a throbbing erection from reporting about a war that was avoided. Edit: The White House press secretary just said Trump still hasn't made a final decision about an attack. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 21:12
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Sinteres posted:Edit: The White House press secretary just said Trump still hasn't made a final decision about an attack. I just left off on the note about blaming Syria and Russia for chemical weapons so I'm stuck between unfounded relief and deepening terror. edit: lol https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/984161961607876609 ded redd fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 21:18
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Carpet bomb them all.
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Apr 11, 2018 21:31
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Sinteres posted:Unless it's Bernie, the next Democratic nominee's probably going to be somewhere between Obama and Hillary on foreign policy. Even relative isolationists in the US are pretty hawkish, and the foreign policy establishment in both parties tries very hard to make sure anyone with dovish instincts gets dragged back to somewhere in the range of what's considered respectable opinion, which means pretty heavy engagement. It's worth remembering that even a lot of Democrats thought Obama was kind of a wimp on foreign policy, and he murked bin Laden, authorized drone strikes all over the place, and overthrew a dictator.
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Apr 11, 2018 21:32
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Whether or not the threat is consistent the world should be terrified of the US.
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Apr 11, 2018 22:12
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https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/984190636093001729
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Apr 11, 2018 23:18
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Everyone knew it was being considered anyway so I don't really buy that criticism, even if it's a line he's used many times himself. Yeah, taking so long to get a strike plan together doesn't help, and the tweets were idiotic, but working to get a coalition was inherently going to be at least somewhat public.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:20
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In any event, I've heard that Russia's taken a hard line and threatened retaliation for missiles fired into Syria. I haven't seen any actual statements about it but I sure hope that's just one massive bluff.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:27
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If Sanders actually said this, she's a bigger moron than Trump. https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/984161503271116800 I know it's a generic phrase every US president says all the time, but some options aren't on the table, and that's one of them.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:40
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Sinteres posted:Corbyn's calling for a vote before the UK acts, and Bernie Sanders is saying Trump has no authority to act without Congress, though I suspect he's not going to win that argument. I mean yeah, what Bernie said there is completely untrue.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:53
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Sinteres posted:If Sanders actually said this, she's a bigger moron than Trump. It's a dumb non-answer but I dont see what makes it spectacular.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:55
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Bip Roberts posted:It's a dumb non-answer but I dont see what makes it spectacular. Bombing the Russian military isn't something anyone in the administration should be saying is even a remote option, especially if we're going to be sending missiles close to where they're stationed. The answer is "of course the United States has no interest in military conflict with Russian forces in the country, and we would urge them to stop making provocative threats" or something like that. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 00:01
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Well considering the Russians just threatened to bomb US warships launching cruise missiles into Syria and airbases, I'd say a lot more options are on the table today than there were yesterday. Which is not necessarily a good thing.
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Apr 12, 2018 00:05
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:Well considering the Russians just threatened to bomb US warships launching cruise missiles into Syria and airbases, I'd say a lot more options are on the table today than there were yesterday. First of all, that's why it's a good idea to be really loving careful about launching missiles into a country they're based in, and if you think it's actually going to lead to a conflict between you, it's a sufficient reason not to do it. Second, even if you're doing it, you still don't suggest that you might be the one to initiate hostilities. I don't think a careless statement by the press secretary takes us there, but the last thing you want is the Russians getting the idea that we do plan to target their forces, giving them reasons to strike first when they likely would have stayed out of it in the first place. It's just bad practice, showing how stupid and cavalier these people are about serious issues. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 00:06
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Bip Roberts posted:It's a dumb non-answer but I dont see what makes it spectacular. Talking about attacking Russia who doesn’t have the assets to retaliate there in force, but does in Europe and with cyber attacks, is pretty spectacular. This could get out of hand very quickly. We know what’s being said in public(that they would attack assets which launched missiles), but we do not know what “red lines” Russia has stated in private. Someone is going to have their bluff called and thinking of Russia as a paper tiger is crazy.
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Apr 12, 2018 00:09
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It's funny, Syrian CAS missions have stopped since fear of the strikes has picked up leading to situations like this becoming possible https://twitter.com/MrKyruer/status/984187059970732032
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Apr 12, 2018 00:56
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HorrificExistence posted:It's funny, Syrian CAS missions have stopped since fear of the strikes has picked up Wow, I had no idea the FSA still had such hardware/area to use it.
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Apr 12, 2018 01:18
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Coldwar timewarp posted:Talking about attacking Russia who doesn’t have the assets to retaliate there in force, but does in Europe and with cyber attacks, is pretty spectacular. This could get out of hand very quickly. Talking about attacking Russia isn't attacking Russia, and what she said is irrelevant to that. The Russians aren't listening to Sanders for any meaning and they realize what she meant by her statement is "gently caress off reporter" and nothing else.
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Apr 12, 2018 01:18
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