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SlothfulCobra posted:And I don't even know how they'd deal with having to create a whole new system of plumbing, considering how their water sources would be left back 400 years in the future in Virginia. Or is that taken too? How desperate for food will these people be after their preserved goods run out and they're stuck with a whole town's worth of empty stomachs and most of Europe's arable farmland already accounted for by legitimate non-time-traveling landlords?
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 06:13 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 03:13 |
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bloom posted:So I recently watched The Terror(fun little series) and got curious about warship names. Can anyone recommend me a book on the subject? Not looking at any particular nation or timeframe as such, just got a general curiousity about how naming conventions change over time.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 06:14 |
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Funnily enough, while 1632 still isn't all that well-written, a lot of these concerns are in fact addressed in one form or another. The Grantvillers focus a lot on scaling down technology to sustainable levels (I think the word they used is "down-gearing"?), there's whole plotlines involving Grantvillers getting tempted to go all over the world by promises of fame and fortune from the local rulers, who are perfectly intelligent and capable of coming up with their own poo poo (even if they sometimes have trouble making it work out in practice due to lack of experience, though they remedy that). And yes, one running theme is the Grantviller's doctor being kept awake at nights by the possibility of plague, screaming at every government official he can get his hands on that they need to do more because it's coming sooner or later. Flint's habit of bringing in co-writers actually works really well to round out his many blind spots and fill in details. They're not always actually good writers (Virginia DeMarce is NOT a novelist), but as world-building goes it works out. Nothing will stop Flint from making American culture morally supreme, though. SlothfulCobra posted:And I don't even know how they'd deal with having to create a whole new system of plumbing, considering how their water sources would be left back 400 years in the future in Virginia. Or is that taken too? How desperate for food will these people be after their preserved goods run out and they're stuck with a whole town's worth of empty stomachs and most of Europe's arable farmland already accounted for by legitimate non-time-traveling landlords? Are they supposed to quickly become a hub of trade or manufacturing? Darn, now I'm stuck wondering what the plot of this book is...this is how they getcha. It's been a long time, but I think one of the side stories has them making deals with the local farmers where they loan them the use of tractors and other modern agricultural tools in exchange for a cut of the harvest. It's also a relatively small rural town, as opposed to a major city, which probably helps. Edit: Also there's never any explicit coercion written in, because of course there isn't, but early on there's still a bit of a strain of "We have better guns than your landlord does, and we live closer. Would you rather deal with us or them?" Tomn fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Apr 12, 2018 |
# ? Apr 12, 2018 06:27 |
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Tomn posted:It's been a long time, but I think one of the side stories has them making deals with the local farmers where they loan them the use of tractors and other modern agricultural tools in exchange for a cut of the harvest. It's also a relatively small rural town, as opposed to a major city, which probably helps. a tractor can't pet cats either https://i.imgur.com/CEtm9FI.mp4
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 06:32 |
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HEY GUNS posted:a tractor won't gently caress and make more of them Clearly you haven't read my 12,000 page John Deere fanfic
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 06:41 |
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Tomn posted:And yes, one running theme is the Grantviller's doctor being kept awake at nights by the possibility of plague, screaming at every government official he can get his hands on that they need to do more because it's coming sooner or later. Those government officials must have been mightily confused, since the plague was just always there in those times. The Romans had some encounters with them, and after nearly 600 years of peace the plague was back in 1347 and stayed well into the loving 20th century. (A second-to-last plague wave killed over 60.000 people in Manchuria 1910-1911.) Oh, and did I say second-to-last? Well, this is because the plague is already back: A new wave hit Madagascar recently. 120 people died before modern technology could stop it in early 2018. Anyway, since we didn't even really know pathogen and transmission path well into the Third Pandemic (19th century), I'm guessing the plague was very well known in the 17th century. After all, with no way to stop it it came back again and again. Edit: Wikipedia tells me the 16th and 17th century was a very bad time for Germany, there are reported plague epidemics right up to the year the book was released, and after. So those officials must have laughed into his faces, as many of them would have been fighting the plague right then and there in 1632 Libluini fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Apr 12, 2018 |
# ? Apr 12, 2018 06:45 |
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Libluini posted:Those government officials must have been mightily confused, Ah, to be clear: he was yelling at the AMERICAN officials, who weren’t used to the idea that plague is a serious problem. Edit: Also the specific thing he was yelling was “SANITATION!” I think one of the later books actually has some kid tempted out to Russia only for the plague to hit, at which point he throws his extremely limited medical knowledge into helping out. Tomn fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Apr 12, 2018 |
# ? Apr 12, 2018 06:55 |
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Tomn posted:Ah, to be clear: he was yelling at the AMERICAN officials, who weren’t used to the idea that plague is a serious problem. OK, that makes a lot more sense
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 07:00 |
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Not going to say I told folks on SA that DAPL protestors was intentionally targeted by both military and civilian intelligence with the full collusion of the US government, but.. I told you so. https://grist.org/justice/paramilitary-security-tracked-and-targeted-nodapl-activists-as-jihadists-docs-show/ https://theintercept.com/2017/05/27...e-insurgencies/ https://theintercept.com/2017/06/03/standing-rock-documents-expose-inner-workings-of-surveillance-industrial-complex/
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 07:08 |
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Tomn posted:Ah, to be clear: he was yelling at the AMERICAN officials, who weren’t used to the idea that plague is a serious problem. If you visit the American West/Southwest, don't pet the chipmunks. https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/plague.htm
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 07:30 |
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bloom posted:So I recently watched The Terror(fun little series) and got curious about warship names. Can anyone recommend me a book on the subject? Not looking at any particular nation or timeframe as such, just got a general curiousity about how naming conventions change over time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cockchafer_(1915) Cockchafer Insect-class Your Royal Navy ladies and gent,
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 07:35 |
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Ainsley McTree posted:The vastly superior luftwaffe let them have it to give them a gentlemanly sporting chance, obviously Cowardly P-51s had only slightly more than half a fuel tank when they engaged the heroic Luftwaffe defenders who were saddled with a full fuel tank.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 08:08 |
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Talking about 1632, Poul Anderson wrote a short story about a US soldier transported back in time to 10th century Iceland. It has a far more plausible take on how trying to introduce advanced knowledge would play out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Came_Early quote:The story is presented in the first person, related by a Saga-Age Icelander named Ospak Ulfsson. During a violent thunderstorm, an unexplained phenomenon transports the titular 20th-century American GI back in time to Ospak's homestead. The American, who becomes known as Gerald "Samsson", is an engineering student drafted to serve at Keflavik during the Cold War between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 08:10 |
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bloom posted:So I recently watched The Terror(fun little series) and got curious about warship names. Can anyone recommend me a book on the subject? Not looking at any particular nation or timeframe as such, just got a general curiousity about how naming conventions change over time. death of the classical education but really small vessels in the RN have almost always had weird names
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:19 |
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bloom posted:Feels to me like there should a book explaining how a country goes from "Erebus" and "Terror" to "Gay Viking" in 100 years. HMS Terror was a stone frigate as recently as 1971. The most recent HMS Erebus was broken up in 1947.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:25 |
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mllaneza posted:They're a good read. Churchill for all his faults and raging imperialism, is one hell of a writer. It's also probably the only source in military history written by a head of state during the actual conflict. "So I called <allied head of state>..." is a sentence very few authors could produce. He wasn't the head of state, and there are tons of sources in military history written by the heads of states during the actual conflicts, eg. Trump's tweets about Syria. mllaneza posted:Even his proposed Balkans followup to Italy made sense from the perspective someone looking at a map. Once through the coastal mountains, you're on a vast plain with a clear shot at Vienna. If the Western allies had beaten the USSR to Vienna and Budapest, that would have had a big impact on how the Cold War played out. So you have the experts analyst the prospects. If they say no, you don't do it. Yeah, I can see Churchill going for the 13th Battle of Isonzo.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:36 |
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feedmegin posted:HMS Terror was a stone frigate as recently as 1971. The most recent HMS Erebus was broken up in 1947. The why of it is what I'm interested in though. Going by my modern sensibilities, those names might as well be HMS You're hosed If You Sign Up. I'm not kidding when I say I want to know how people come up with their warboat names.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:39 |
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in which france discovers that it's possible to seek out potential soldiers and enroll them against their will if it was a widely held belief that the number of potential soldiers in the world is static, that would sure explain early 17th century tactics
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:40 |
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ChubbyChecker posted:He wasn't the head of state, and there are tons of sources in military history written by the heads of states during the actual conflicts, eg. Trump's tweets about Syria. I think it's more that he could get a head of state on the line. I don't think a history of World War 2 written by George VI would be quite as informative, somehow...
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:40 |
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bloom posted:The why of it is what I'm interested in though. Going by my modern sensibilities, those names might as well be HMS You're hosed If You Sign Up. I mean it's HMS Terror, not HMS Terrorised. You're supposed to make the other people fearful. You could serve on HMS Invincible if that would make you feel better? (actually the former name of an HMS Erebus that sank in a storm in 1914 - shouldn't have changed the name, guys; also a battlecruiser that got blown up at Jutland)
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:43 |
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SlothfulCobra posted:They'd probably have access to antibacterial soap for a while, which'd cut down on the disease, but after that ran out, they'd be real hosed by all the festering disease to which they'd have no resistance from long-term exposure that people of the era would have. Best case scenario maybe their modern vaccines can keep out the big bugs for a generation, but nobody gets vaccinated for smallpox anymore. All soaps work against bacteria. Chinese invented the smallpox vaccinations in the 16th century, and it was used in Boston in 1706.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:43 |
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mllaneza posted:.... In short, he gets laughed at for some of his ideas, but no credit for listening to the professionals once they'd done their homework.... except he just would not let ideas die and listen to the experts the Baltic Project was clearly retarded in WWI, which Churchill knew - and it took Churchill six months of trying to cram it down Pound's throat before he finally shut the gently caress up about Operation Catherine. Churchill fundamentally misread the strategic situation as well - as the preeminent naval power, it did not make sense for the RN to throw away capital ships in the Baltic littoral to try to achieve somewhat dubious aims. Churchill constantly underestimated his enemies and overestimated the degree to which neutral nations would support the British. He was not a great strategic thinker but he thought he was. He was basically Good Hitler with less power.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 10:47 |
And there's other aspects of modern technology which take really well to just getting some knowledge from the future - a single school chemistry textbook essentially takes you straight to 1860 in chemical knowledge - TNT is avaliable basically as soon as you can mine coal and use its leavings as a source of toluene - much of historical chemistry was developing concepts like thr atom, the molecule, elements and their weights which are common knowledge now.
Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 11:32 |
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13th KRRC War Diary, 12th Apr 1918 posted:In the afternoon considerable shelling was carried out by both the enemy and us. A white tape was laid from the Aid Post to B Coy. with a branch off to C Coy.-this was to guide the incoming Btn. and give them as much assistance as possible. In due course the Btn. was relieved and moved into reserve at GOMMECOURT PARK where everyone is in tunnels although in many cases very cramped.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 12:56 |
bloom posted:The why of it is what I'm interested in though. Going by my modern sensibilities, those names might as well be HMS You're hosed If You Sign Up. Sometimes they inherit these names via tradition. Sometimes they stick and are part of silly in joke that confuse people, congratulations for keeping that tradition going by the way. Remember the British Admiralty is full of eccentrics and nerdy weirdos who are just as odd as we are only they dress slightly better and don't have access to the internet. Yes they are good at sailing, budgets and leading but my god they can get weird.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 13:26 |
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The RN also has a deep weakness for theme naming. Around the turn of the 19th century they kept naming gun-brigs <thing>er, so you have Boxer, Grappler, Growler, and Defender, but also Tickler, Cracker, and Plumper.
Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Apr 12, 2018 |
# ? Apr 12, 2018 13:31 |
Yep. Also the Royal Navy got a bit bloated too and sometimes it is a bit of arse ache to try and rename one boat in hundreds coming in or going out and have better things to do. And by better things I mean dancing like a loon, playing practical jokes and putting up with some snotty nosed Winston guy.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 13:34 |
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I still prefer the RN's naming system to the USN's, though.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 13:56 |
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HEY GUNS posted:i want to get warspite tattooed over one of my iliac crests Same but Gay Viking. E: im straight and anglo but a good tattoo is a good tattoo
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 14:13 |
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HEY GUNS posted:i want to get warspite tattooed over one of my iliac crests Not "Bunte Kuh" or "Adler von Lübeck"?
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 14:30 |
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Is there really a german warship that was called the "Colourful Cow"?
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:15 |
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Yeah: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunte_Kuh_(Schiff,_1401)
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:18 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:Sometimes they inherit these names via tradition. Sometimes they stick and are part of silly in joke that confuse people, congratulations for keeping that tradition going by the way. There RN was also a pretty rigid adherer to the maritime tradition that you don't rename ships (although there were exceptions). So when enemy ships were captured and taken into RN service they retained their original names. The famous Temeraire of 1798 was British-built but named after a French seventy-four captured and comissioned in 1759. Gloire and Glorieux both retained their French names in RN service. The oddest one is probably HMS Ville de Paris, which was a British-built first rate built in 1795 but named after de Grasse's flagship from the Revolutionary War which had been taken as a prize but sank before it could be put back into service. To commemorate the acheivement, and because Ville de Paris was a respected ship and design, the Admiralty comissioned a brand new ship named after the enemy's capital city in the enemy's language. Comrade Gorbash posted:The RN also has a deep weakness for theme naming. Around the turn of the 19th century they kept naming gun-brigs <thing>er, so you have Boxer, Grappler, Growler, and Defender, but also Tickler, Cracker, and Plumper. Bomb-ketches (such as Erebus and Terror) were almost always named for hellish, firey subjects associated with the classical underworld or feelings of existential dread , so you also had Sulphur, Etna, Hecla, Fury, Carcass, Infernal and Belzebub. The names then transferred from bomb vessels to their more modern equivalents, monitors. The Insect-class names go all the way back to the 1790s when the Fly-class cutters were built. The names then transferred from small coastal warships to river gunboats. As for thread-favourite Gay Viking, I feel I should probably go full and say that she was never an RN vessel - she was a high-speed blockade runner designed to ferry shipments of ball bearings from Sweden without violating neutrality laws. There was the post-war Gay-class FPBs, of which HMS Gay Bruiser is probably the most amusing.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:28 |
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Cythereal posted:I still prefer the RN's naming system to the USN's, though. Hey, the US system used to make sense. Battleships named after states, cruisers named after cities, destroyers named after heroic sailors, submarines named after "aquatic life," (so you can include mammals like dolphins) aircraft carriers named after battles. Now it's a hodge-podge. (Rickover famously started naming nuclear subs after cities or states in the districts of congresspeople who favored navy funding. When asked why he switched from the prior system he is supposed to have replied "because fish don't vote.")
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:28 |
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BalloonFish posted:The famous Temeraire of 1798 was British-built but named after a French seventy-four captured and comissioned in 1759. Gloire and Glorieux both retained their French names in RN service. The oddest one is probably HMS Ville de Paris, which was a British-built first rate built in 1795 but named after de Grasse's flagship from the Revolutionary War which had been taken as a prize but sank before it could be put back into service. To commemorate the acheivement, and because Ville de Paris was a respected ship and design, the Admiralty comissioned a brand new ship named after the enemy's capital city in the enemy's language.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:33 |
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Yeah, it's got to be a little dispiriting to be a french captain and see that you're about to engage the HMS Ville de Paris
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:33 |
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goatsestretchgoals posted:Cowardly P-51s had only slightly more than half a fuel tank when they engaged the heroic Luftwaffe defenders who were saddled with a full fuel tank. The janky mustang was designed in 102 days whereas the glorious teutonic Bf-109 was the product of numerous years of detailed and meticulous precise efforts
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:34 |
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Did the Romans ever name their ships? Do we have any record of actual named Roman ships, beyond a classification of which squadron they were in and their number?
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:38 |
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Tekopo posted:Did the Romans ever name their ships? Do we have any record of actual named Roman ships, beyond a classification of which squadron they were in and their number? quote:Roman ships were commonly named after gods (Mars, Iuppiter, Minerva, Isis), mythological heroes (Hercules), geographical maritime features such as Rhenus or Oceanus, concepts such as Harmony, Peace, Loyalty, Victory (Concordia, Pax, Fides, Victoria) or after important events (Dacicus for the Trajan's Dacian Wars or Salamina for the Battle of Salamis).[94] They were distinguished by their figurehead (insigne or parasemum),[95] and, during the Civil Wars at least, by the paint schemes on their turrets, which varied according to each fleet.[96]
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:40 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 03:13 |
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The Romans were so loving basic.
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# ? Apr 12, 2018 15:45 |