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LeoMarr posted:jesus christ this is gonna be GREAT. 
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Apr 13, 2018 22:08
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"Go big or go home". Unironically think Trump is right on this one--there is no point to striking, unless we're going to cause severe enough damage that the SAA will think again before dumping nerve gas on cities.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:09
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OctaMurk posted:"Go big or go home". Unironically think Trump is right on this one--there is no point to striking, unless we're going to cause severe enough damage that the SAA will think again before dumping nerve gas on cities. Your absolutely wrong. Nothing > something ineffective that allows trump to pretend to have done something and Assad and Russia to realize it was just for internal show > anything real
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Apr 13, 2018 22:16
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Bip Roberts posted:Your absolutely wrong. Halfway measures and half-hearted escalation are how the Syrian Civil War got this hosed up in the first place. It is irresponsible for us to strike and give people the glimmer of hope that they have Western support unless we're willing to actually back them to the hilt. If we're not, then let's just stay home and let the war sort itself out--it will be horrible, but at least quicker than our continual intervention keeping the war going on forever. Obama already let them cross the redline, so we don't even look weaker by doing nothing at this point.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:21
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Any suggestion of *intentionally* hitting Russian poo poo is the very definition of the worst possible idea.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:21
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OctaMurk posted:Halfway measures and half-hearted escalation are how the Syrian Civil War got this hosed up in the first place. It is irresponsible for us to strike and give people the glimmer of hope that they have Western support unless we're willing to actually back them to the hilt. If we're not, then let's just stay home. Obama already let them cross the redline, so we don't even look weaker by doing nothing at this point. Nobody's going to get a glimmer of hope because we throw some missiles into the dirt. It's actually a heavier response that gives false hope, because we're not going to actually remove him from power. Anyone who sees this and goes 'yeah awesome!' needs their head examined. https://twitter.com/schwarz/status/984896482087198722
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Apr 13, 2018 22:22
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Sinteres posted:Nobody's going to get a glimmer of hope because we throw some missiles into the dirt. It's actually a heavier response that gives false hope, because we're not going to actually remove him from power. Then let's not strike, since it wont make a difference? I don't understand why anyone supports these kinds of "slap on the wrist" strikes that aren't even intended to make a difference.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:23
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OctaMurk posted:Then let's not strike, since it wont make a difference? I don't understand why anyone supports these kinds of "slap on the wrist" strikes that aren't even intended to make a difference. Obviously that would be best. In a case where trump decides he must do something because he tweeted he would then less is absolutely better.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:29
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I thought a clear "don't do that" message with limited strikes directed at chemical capabilities made some amount of sense, but Bolton trying to con Trump into expanding the war to punish Iran and Russia makes this dangerous enough that I don't want any of these people going forward with anything.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:32
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HorrificExistence posted:drump is bought by putin Kompromatized rather than bought.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:39
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LeoMarr posted:Trumo wants an iraq war 1998 style bombing of near all infrastructure... well aleppos already fuvked so if he starts striking aleppo this shits gonna be a laugh fest... hopefully he bunker bombs assads house about 12 times.. multiple day bombing... jesus christ this is gonna be GREAT. Trump will (at best) bomb empty airfields and avoid doing any serious damage to Assad because he is terrified of Putin.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:42
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Deconfliction advocate, Jim "Mad Dog" Mattis
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Apr 13, 2018 22:52
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https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/984789066569998338
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Apr 13, 2018 23:06
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the japanese nuked themselves, you see
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Apr 13, 2018 23:21
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Willie Tomg posted:Deconfliction advocate, Jim "Mad Dog" Mattis He hates being called that btw, his call sign was Chaos. And yeah, him and McMaster were the adults in the room, mostly because they’re weirdly against US servicemembers dying needlessly.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:39
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IIRC another thing that makes him a relative dove for THIS administration is that Frankly He Would Rather Only Torture People When Its Useful, Thank You Very Much. (Honestly there are a lot of administrations that would make him a relative dove in, unfortunately.)
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Apr 13, 2018 23:41
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OctaMurk posted:Halfway measures and half-hearted escalation are how the Syrian Civil War got this hosed up in the first place. It is irresponsible for us to strike and give people the glimmer of hope that they have Western support unless we're willing to actually back them to the hilt. If we're not, then let's just stay home and let the war sort itself out--it will be horrible, but at least quicker than our continual intervention keeping the war going on forever. Obama already let them cross the redline, so we don't even look weaker by doing nothing at this point. realpolitik-wise the US would actually prefer if we could extend this out as long as possible as cheaply as possible, because it is bleeding Russia of money and military units.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:45
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Grapplejack posted:realpolitik-wise the US would actually prefer if we could extend this out as long as possible as cheaply as possible, because it is bleeding Russia of money and military units. That's a deeply cynical view which some realists have advanced, but I don't buy that it's actually been what's motivated the US, both because I don't think Barack Obama was that evil (even if being President of the United States means he has blood on his hands, I think he needed better reasons than 'let's get a shitload of people killed just to marginally weaken an adversary I don't take seriously anyway, in a way that will make them look stronger to many observers.') Besides, I think the cynical view is wrong that it would be a good thing to desire even from a purely amoral perspective, since the second order effects the refugee crisis at least contributed to have been so disastrous for the liberal order in the West. A lot of realists are really obsessed with stability above all else, especially since they view the US as the dominant power in the world, and one that has too much to risk from pushing an aggressive foreign policy that risks upsetting the international order we created. It's also a somewhat amoral perspective, but more passively so. It doesn't really have many adherents though, outside of some academics everyone ignores and maybe second term Obama. Democrats tend to be liberal internationalists, while Republicans tend to either be outright hegemonists or foreign policy liberals depending on how cynical they are. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 23:52
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Sinteres posted:I don't think Barack Obama was that evil
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Apr 14, 2018 00:24
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Rent-A-Cop posted:He definitely was, as evidenced by all the dead kids. Huh, it's almost like I addressed that if you didn't snip out the rest of the comment. Unless you mean the dead Syrian kids he allowed Assad to kill, in which case that's different from the point I'm making, which is that he wasn't actively trying to make that happen.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:25
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I think Obama genuinely believed that drone strikes in Punjab reduce net dead kids overall
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Apr 14, 2018 00:26
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Flavahbeast posted:I think Obama genuinely believed that drone strikes in Punjab reduce net dead kids overall 
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Apr 14, 2018 00:27
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https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/984930794778095617?s=19 Leaking doesn't really seem like sufficient recourse under the given circumstances but what do I know I'm just some nobody who doesn't want to die in WWIII.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:29
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Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/984930794778095617?s=19 What else can he do? Congress is a loving joke and let the presidency assume more and more power over the last few decades, so nobody's in a position to do poo poo about Trump ordering whatever the gently caress he wants. I mean I guess he could resign, but then we don't even have him in the room offering less insane options anymore.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:30
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Flavahbeast posted:I think Obama genuinely believed that drone strikes in Punjab reduce net dead kids overall
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Apr 14, 2018 00:34
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I suspect that Donald J Trump should not have been made president of the United States of America.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:38
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Thump! posted:He hates being called that btw, his call sign was Chaos. Chaos Mattis the sensible moderate is also p. funny patter khwarezm posted:I suspect that Donald J Trump should not have been made president of the United States of America. 
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Apr 14, 2018 00:41
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Think of all those Bhopal children who would have grown up in poverty!
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Apr 14, 2018 00:41
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Eh, at least Clinton probably wouldn't have jumped from opposing position to opposing position so arbitrarily which undoubtedly makes things much more unstable. Also wasn't this regarding last year's attack?
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Apr 14, 2018 00:53
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khwarezm posted:Eh, at least Clinton probably wouldn't have jumped from opposing position to opposing position so arbitrarily which undoubtedly makes things much more unstable. It was. IMO we'd probably be having the "robust response" conversation in a hypothetical Clinton administration but its dumb of me to even mention that because we'll never know and as you point out the voices in Clinton's head probably couldn't form a barbershop chorus as seems to be the case IRL presently. DC politicians just freakin' love war
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Apr 14, 2018 00:57
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War with Russia then?
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Apr 14, 2018 01:20
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TRUMP!!!! Grouchio posted:War with Russia then? Not necessarily. The Ukraine conflict hasn't exploded into full-blown NATO vs Russia war outside Ukraine despite both NATO and Russian troops being on opposite sides. Shear Modulus fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 01:24
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finally https://twitter.com/AndrewBeatty/status/984950288191762433
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Apr 14, 2018 01:29
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Grouchio posted:War with Russia then? No, of course not.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:29
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More evidence: https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/984951187261808640
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Apr 14, 2018 01:40
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Shear Modulus posted:TRUMP!!!! Uh, if there's any NATO troops in Ukraine somebody should tell NATO about it.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:41
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https://twitter.com/JoeRTabet/status/984953458485809152quote:Just-in: US administration official confirmed to me that a decision to strike #Syria has been taken.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:41
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Here we gooo!!!!!
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Apr 14, 2018 01:55
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Trump expected to address nation on Syria We're going to war boys! 
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Apr 14, 2018 01:55
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More civilians are going to die because of this than in the chemical attack.
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Apr 14, 2018 01:58
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