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Regardless of theology the impression I always get is that he generally acts from a position of genuine love and regard for others.
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Apr 17, 2018 02:56
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TOOT BOOT posted:Plus he doesn't look like Emperor Palpatine.
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Apr 17, 2018 03:17
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his opinions on trans people are Really Bad, which is ironic cause he's a jesuit and the jesuits in rome did a funeral for a murdered homeless trans girl and used the correct pronouns for her EDIT: i'll give francis this over benedict; frank has a better track record with promoting social justice
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Apr 17, 2018 03:18
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Senju Kannon posted:his opinions on trans people are Really Bad, which is ironic cause he's a jesuit and the jesuits in rome did a funeral for a murdered homeless trans girl and used the correct pronouns for her
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Apr 17, 2018 03:19
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i mean they also like a guy saying "hey help the poor you stupid fucks, don't just talk about the unborn" except for the ones who don't but they reaaaaally like quoting "who am i to judge," but i also like doing that but in a subversive way
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Apr 17, 2018 03:33
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mods change my name posted:i mean the printing press did have a bit of a smaller audience at the time and was probably the biggest impact on human literacy but no maybe only digital advertising is the only real mass media EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:
EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:You're a 35 year old monk. The hair they didn't shave off your head has all turned grey. Your nose barely brushes the paper as strain-induced myopia slows your work to a crawl. Your spine twisted into a permanent hunch from 25 years of writing after your parents sold you to the abbey. Two painstaking months go by and you produce your life's masterpiece: a full vellum illuminated page, your finest work yet. Your eyes are wide with pride as the noble picks up his order. "Thanks bruh", he says, hastily scribbling "end nudes" on the vellum. With a cry of "HEY WENCH!" he crumples the culmination of the monk's life and throws it at a large breasted milkmaid nearby.
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Apr 17, 2018 03:57
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end nudes
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Senju Kannon posted:i mean they also like a guy saying "hey help the poor you stupid fucks, don't just talk about the unborn"
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Apr 17, 2018 04:09
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HEY GUNS posted:my point is benedict did that as well. very similar policies. one gets demonized and one gets lionized because benedict isn't good looking and lol emperor palpatine anyone From the beginning of this thread as “I’m Catholic Ask Me” to its current iteration, I have pretty much 180’d on my feelings about Pope Benedict.
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Apr 17, 2018 04:25
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Different faces and personalities, but the same spirit of holiness. The same mortally imperfect nature, too, for which there will be a full accounting, and the same redemption. It's unfortunate that a)people are cruel and b)Joseph Ratzinger did not age well. Pope Francis's warmth, though, has been more exemplary to me of the day-to-day holiness that everyday people can see and taste. Pope Benedict may be the more gifted instructor for the life of the mind, but Francis is the better teacher for the life of the heart. And both men are easily misunderstood.
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Apr 17, 2018 04:26
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Caufman posted:a)people are cruel and b)Joseph Ratzinger did not age well.
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Apr 17, 2018 04:42
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monks; well known for their illuminated copies of the simalrillion HEY GUNS posted:my point is benedict did that as well. very similar policies. one gets demonized and one gets lionized because benedict isn't good looking and lol emperor palpatine anyone yeah but benedict said the greatest threat to christianity in the 20th century was buddhism so like i feel like he's got different, albeit similar, baggage also frank got us st oscar romero and i gotta give him rpops for that even tho i'm an imperialist nuclear weapon
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Apr 17, 2018 04:44
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HEY GUNS posted:my point is benedict did that as well. very similar policies. one gets demonized and one gets lionized because benedict isn't good looking and lol emperor palpatine anyone I don't actually know all that much about either of them, its just Francis has a bunch of fluff pieces in the news every so often and it's easy to get a sense he genuinely loves people.
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Apr 17, 2018 06:15
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Senju Kannon posted:monks; well known for their illuminated copies of the simalrillion I was kinda surprised by that statement, so I looked it up: the whole thing seems to come down to an interview Ratzinger gave to a French magazine in 1997 as a cardinal, from which his answers reached the anglosphere after a series of mistranslations and antagonistic readings. For one, he didn’t say that Buddhism was Christianity’s great enemy, but instead said that „in 1950 somebody said that Buddhism will be Christianity’s greatest challenge (défis)“. His usage of autoérotisme in describing the allure Buddhism has for many Christians also would be more properly translated as „self-absorption“. The French original: quote:[U]n vrai dialogue n'est pas un mouvement dans le vide. Il a un but: la recherche commune de la vérité. Un chrétien ne peut pas renoncer à sa connaissance de la vérité, révélée pour lui en Jésus-Christ, fils unique de Dieu. Si le bouddhisme séduit, c'est parce qu'il apparaît comme une possibilité de toucher à l'infini, à la félicité sans avoir d'obligations religieuses concrètes. Un autoérotisme spirituel, en quelque sorte. Quelqu'un avait justement prédit, dans les années 1950, que le défi de l'Eglise au XXe siècle serait non pas le marxisme, mais le bouddhisme. A translation I lifted from a blog which seems good to my had-three-years-of-French-half-a-lifetime-ago eyes: quote:[A] true dialogue does not happen in a vacuum. It has as its goal a common search for the truth. A Christian cannot give up his revealed truth, that Jesus Christ is the only son of God. If they are attracted to Buddhism, this is because it offers a possibility of happiness by touching the infinite, without having concrete religious obligations. It is, to some extent, a spiritual self-absorption. Somebody predicted in 1950, that the challenge to the Church in the 20th century would not be Marxism, but Buddhism. which seems mainly concerned with some westerners taking up Buddhism as a lifestyle of sorts. So yeah, as so often much of what Benedict said got lost in translation or was skewed by somebody who had preconceived notions of what evil ol’ Ratzinger was up to. Not to say that all of his opinions suddenly are great, but it’s imo mainly what Hay gal said: one pope looks like a cool uncle from Argentina and has a way with words, whereas the other didn’t age all that well, used to be head of the ~inquisition~ (so spooky!) and loves debating christological minutiae, so people adore the one and at best ignore/at worst openly despise the other even though outside of some externalities their theology and mission were super similar. System Metternich fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 07:25
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aloysius pieris was not a fan of ratzinger, no
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Apr 17, 2018 07:44
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HEY GUNS posted:my point is benedict did that as well. very similar policies. one gets demonized and one gets lionized because benedict isn't good looking and lol emperor palpatine anyone nobody even reads benedict's encyclicals. like I can't even remember the last time I heard anyone quote from them
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Apr 17, 2018 14:53
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The Phlegmatist posted:nobody even reads benedict's encyclicals. Deus Caritas Est was pretty popular at the time, and I still hear references to it pretty regularly. The other two are generally overlooked.
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Apr 17, 2018 14:56
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The Phlegmatist posted:nobody even reads benedict's encyclicals.
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Apr 17, 2018 14:57
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System Metternich posted:one pope looks like a cool uncle from Argentina and has a way with words, whereas the other didn’t age all that well, used to be head of the ~inquisition~ (so spooky!) and loves debating christological minutiae, so people adore the one and at best ignore/at worst openly despise the other even though outside of some externalities their theology and mission were super similar.
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Apr 17, 2018 14:58
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I mean, given how much value you place on trappings and tradition, is it really a surprise that people respond to the trappings and external visuals of a religious figure?
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Apr 17, 2018 15:01
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Senju Kannon posted:
I mean, if one was a Buddhist, one could take this as a compliment, as an implicit/tacit admission that Buddhism as an intellectual force has a sufficient power to threaten Christianity.
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Apr 17, 2018 15:32
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Night10194 posted:I mean, given how much value you place on trappings and tradition, is it really a surprise that people respond to the trappings and external visuals of a religious figure?
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Apr 17, 2018 15:36
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System Metternich posted:mainly concerned with some westerners taking up Buddhism as a lifestyle of sorts.
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Apr 17, 2018 15:38
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I just read all 229 pages of part 2 of this megathread, plus all 122 pages of this iteration. (I haven't been on SA since early January 2017.) I did so in...4 days. Pardon me while I say "hi I'm back", and fall over in exhaustion. (Is it a bad thing, etiquette-wise, if I just...read the last 3 pages of a megathread on A/T or D&D....?) I missed you nerds. Also, on topic: Benedict...I always wonder what he would have looked like if he hadn't been a smoker, as Hegel noted. I'm pretty sure, if he had not looked as he did, the popular impression of him would have at least given him a fighting chance. It's not his fault in that regard so much as it is the fact that the modern Papacy doesn't just have the historical requirements of the job, but almost requires a good headshot as well, like an actor or performer, and yet nobody outright admits that. It's a global role, and you really do seem to need to "look the part", for better or worse. If a Pope doesn't, they won't really have a chance to compete against the inevitable commentary against them, whereas if they do, they at least don't have more to fight against. What this means is: Media coverage of religion is so terrible it defies description. (Side point: docbeard, do you have any recommendations on books I could read (preferably on kindle) about the Amish/Old Order Mennonites as they are today? Donald Kraybill's stuff is all from decades ago, I thought...And I am fairly aware cellphones (at the least) have changed things dramatically.) (Edited to fix grammar) Spacewolf fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 16:04
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Spacewolf posted:
wanna hear a joke? a reporter goes into a church.
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Apr 17, 2018 16:06
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 Obviously they were about to say
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Apr 17, 2018 16:49
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Spacewolf posted:(Side point: docbeard, do you have any recommendations on books I could read (preferably on kindle) about the Amish/Old Order Mennonites as they are today? Donald Kraybill's stuff is all from decades ago, I thought...And I am fairly aware cellphones (at the least) have changed things dramatically.) I'm a bit out of touch with Amish/Old Order Mennonite stuff, but I'll do a little digging and see what I can come up with. It does look like Kraybill co-wrote a book called The Amish (as a companion to a PBS series of the same name) that came out in 2013. And yeah, my general understanding is that things have always been more complex than TECHNOLOGY BAD (and there's a lot of variation between individual communities as to what is and is not permitted).
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Apr 17, 2018 16:53
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Spacewolf posted:What this means is: Media coverage of religion is so terrible it defies description. this is kind of darkly why I want to see cardinal sarah be the next pope "The Roman Catholic Church elects its first black pope as Pope Pius XII. Is this a sign of the Catholic Church moving in a new inclusive, forward-thinking direction?"
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Apr 17, 2018 16:56
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docbeard posted:I'm a bit out of touch with Amish/Old Order Mennonite stuff, but I'll do a little digging and see what I can come up with. It does look like Kraybill co-wrote a book called The Amish (as a companion to a PBS series of the same name) that came out in 2013. isn't their schtick basically less 'tech is bad' and more 'not being in a pre-industrial farming village is bad' and thus any tech which doesn't further the latter is unnecessary?
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Apr 17, 2018 16:58
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I like Cardinal Robert Sarah. Don't @ me.
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Apr 17, 2018 16:59
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StashAugustine posted:isn't their schtick basically less 'tech is bad' and more 'not being in a pre-industrial farming village is bad' and thus any tech which doesn't further the latter is unnecessary? Yeah, it's not tech itself it's the modern lifestyle it brings. They do use propane and compressed air to run all sorts of appliances and machinery. Explanation I got was "well if you could make a TV run on gas, then we'd have to ban it just like electricity."
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Apr 17, 2018 17:03
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docbeard posted:I'm a bit out of touch with Amish/Old Order Mennonite stuff, but I'll do a little digging and see what I can come up with. It does look like Kraybill co-wrote a book called The Amish (as a companion to a PBS series of the same name) that came out in 2013. This is entirely anecdotal, but there are a ton of Mennonite and Hutterite colonies in the Dakotas and it seems like their attitude toward technology is somewhere along the lines of "as long as it doesn't intrude into home/community life." My uncle works as an electrician and a lot of his jobs the last few years have been wiring factories and processing plants at colonies. They're big on being self-sufficient and have no issue using modern farm and manufacturing equipment to support themselves economically. Almost every time I end up at a Wal-Mart or Target, there's a family in traditional clothing speaking German and shopping there. They drive cars, shop at big box stores, and use technology where it's pragmatic for their (mostly agricultural) livelihoods. I would guess they have cellphones to communicate with workers in the field and for emergencies, but would not use them for socializing or in the home. They're big on maintaining independent self-supporting colonies and a traditional family/community life and are happy to use modern technology where it doesn't interfere with the latter.
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Apr 17, 2018 17:08
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StashAugustine posted:isn't their schtick basically less 'tech is bad' and more 'not being in a pre-industrial farming village is bad' and thus any tech which doesn't further the latter is unnecessary? It's more generally about "having ties to the modern world is bad", but yeah.
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Apr 17, 2018 17:09
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Pellisworth posted:This is entirely anecdotal, but there are a ton of Mennonite and Hutterite colonies in the Dakotas and it seems like their attitude toward technology is somewhere along the lines of "as long as it doesn't intrude into home/community life." Yeah, this absolutely matches with my experience growing up in northeastern Ohio. The Amish there didn't have cars, but often paid others to drive them places; my cousin made a decent amount of pocket money in high school driving Amish folks around in a van he nicked the Yoder Toter. The phone situation I was most familiar with was one where they could have a telephone (mobile or otherwise) in an outbuilding or a barn or something, but not in the house. It's very much about independence from the world.
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Apr 17, 2018 17:14
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HEY GUNS posted:they are liking the bad ones though, instead of the good ones I think you are confusing "things I like" with "objective moral good" though.
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Apr 17, 2018 17:57
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Josef bugman posted:I think you are confusing "things I like" with "objective moral good" though. orthodoxy is an aesthetic movement that also worships god
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Apr 17, 2018 18:00
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Josef bugman posted:I think you are confusing "things I like" with "objective moral good" though. I'm pretty sure she's not serious about that statement. HEY GUNS posted:orthodoxy is an aesthetic movement that also worships god Or that one..... I'm preeeeeeeety sure.....
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Apr 17, 2018 18:02
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Spacewolf posted:I just read all 229 pages of part 2 of this megathread, plus all 122 pages of this iteration. (I haven't been on SA since early January 2017.) I did so in...4 days. Welcome back! 
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Apr 17, 2018 18:15
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So I got to participate in a smaller-scale heathen ritual this sunday, which may interest some of you: a member of my blót guild had moved into a new apartment, and held a housewarming - she charged me to bind a big stick of cleansing incense because of my vølvic experience, and so I did, interested to see what was going to happen with it. She said it was to clean and guard the apartment, and so it was. She lit it up (I made one from garden wormwood, white sage and red pine), then took it to each window and doorsill in the apartment, waving it in a circle and making a cross in the circle (this is essentially the sun/season wheel which is our primary religious symbol, and is always done clockwise in accordance with tradition), saying "Sun and Sun's Son, Moon and Moon's Daughter, I draw you down and ask you to protect this home". After that we held a traditional blot as I have described them before, only inside around a table, calling on Brage (she and her husband are mandolinists), Sun, Moon and Frigg (Odin's wife, aesir, protector of the home), where we had four rounds of beseechment and sacrifice, and the traditional blessing of items below the guild ring. I was channeling Moon, and so stood in the west, holding the guild ring along with the other corners as the runic prayer - involving such boss elements as naming the lords of the dwarves and dark elves in order to gain their magic - was said. Then we ate lots of cake and I played with some fat chilluns who threw licorice into my mouth. 10/10 would heathen housewarm again! Tias fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 18:48
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The Phlegmatist posted:this is kind of darkly why I want to see cardinal sarah be the next pope Oh good god, I was looking at this guys wiki page and one of the photos he's in, there's a guy that looks like Mike Stoksla from redlettermedia if he had become a priest instead of a youtube personality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rober...F1an_Palace.jpg)
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Apr 17, 2018 19:19
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docbeard posted:It's more generally about "having ties to the modern world is bad", but yeah. Since we're on this topic do the non-plain Anabaptist (I don't know what the right term is) have any low-key restrictions on or resistance to technology? Are there any churches which wear modern dress and use laptops and everything, but have a cultural aversion to overuse of iphones?
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Apr 17, 2018 20:50
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