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StormDrain posted:Still I think a needle valve at a low pressure would keep the fuel out, right? I’ve had gunk keep mine from closing and it floods the engine in a hurry with a mechanical pump while running. I'm not sure what system etcg was using either but obviously a EFI high pressure pump and too much pressure. Old n/a carbed mazda rotaries all have an electric pump standard which is low pressure (5-7psi), no regulator plus a complete free flowing fuel return line. And as I mentioned before I had a holley blue with my 48IDA weber carb. I think the reg was on the supply line set to 8-10 psi.
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Apr 17, 2018 10:03
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InitialDave posted:Try and get them to do regular oil sampling and analysis? Might mean they catch it earlier next time, even if they won't put the right oil in. Sounds like they continued running the equipment even after it started smoking and they were told the rear fluid already has high metal content in it but won't do an oil replacement. Seems like they are the sort of operator who will ignore everything short of the machine being unable to move when the engine is at full power. That group also has pretty significant overlap with with the sort of operator who thinks oil specifications are a profit making conspiracy by manufacturers. Shifty Pony fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 12:19
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At least it had an interesting way of putting out the fire 
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Apr 17, 2018 12:36
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MegaWeapon, no!  For reference: http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Megaweapon
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Apr 17, 2018 12:43
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Shai-Hulud posted:How do brakes like this work? Do they get pressed together like clutch discs? Yeah, exactly. A big part of the axle oil's job is to cool the brakes. InitialDave posted:Try and get them to do regular oil sampling and analysis? Might mean they catch it earlier next time, even if they won't put the right oil in. They did. On this kind of equipment if you don't have an oil sample history you're not getting warranty service. Trouble is, their oil sample history says "incorrect oil" all over it. It's not like the problem happened overnight, either. The operators had been reporting for months that the brakes weren't working properly and were told by management to just keep using them. We had to twist their arms just to get them to agree to change the oil in the rears, run it for 50 hours or so, and then change it again. They told us that "oil is expensive."
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Apr 17, 2018 14:26
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EKDS5k posted:They told us that "oil is expensive."  Stupid fucks
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Apr 17, 2018 14:45
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EKDS5k posted:We had to twist their arms just to get them to agree to change the oil in the rears, run it for 50 hours or so, and then change it again. They told us that "oil is expensive." If spending $500 for oil is going to break the bank on your $million+ plus heavy equipment you're probably better off folding the business.
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Apr 17, 2018 15:00
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It might depend on budgeting. Like if oil goes into an operations pool of money and repairs are an insurance/warranty thing then maybe the dude who made the decision to skimp on lubrication is not the dude who has to worry about repair costs. I mean it'd still be a stupid decision, but sometimes bureaucracy covers this stuff up.
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Apr 17, 2018 15:28
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Shai-Hulud posted:How do brakes like this work? Do they get pressed together like clutch discs? They're basically clutch packs like in an automatic transmission, yeah. They're all stuck into a bore that's capped over one end, and there's a hydraulic piston on the other end. Typically the steel plates, along with the piston, are splined to the casing, and the friction liners are splined to whatever rotating assembly. When hydraulic pressure is applied and squeezes them, they lock the two together, or in this case slow them down.
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Apr 17, 2018 17:08
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InitialDave posted:Try and get them to do regular oil sampling and analysis? Might mean they catch it earlier next time, even if they won't put the right oil in. Lol predictive maintenance is the absolute lowest tier priority budget item (in government shops)
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Apr 17, 2018 20:42
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Shai-Hulud posted:How do brakes like this work? Do they get pressed together like clutch discs? That's what it looks like, and are immersed in the oil like a motorcycle wet clutch, which would explain why it needs a particular oil Friction modifiers like in a limited-slip differential. Thing is, surely the manufacturer publishes a spec for the oil which can be met by a third party oil provider? edit: EightBit posted:
I have questions. Is that just the hub catching on fire from heat from the brakes, then the tire popping, or what? I mean, the think sparks up and down the tire like a string of explosives going off before it flares up and then ultimately detonates. Seems to be something going on up at the front, too. WTF? Wait - did it wrap a power line around the tire? CommieGIR posted:MegaWeapon, no! Oh, dear God I remember that movie. Darchangel fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 23:47
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The truck's bed contacted power lines and the arcing to the ground blows up the tire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idKnJ9ejToo
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Apr 17, 2018 23:58
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xzzy posted:It might depend on budgeting. Like if oil goes into an operations pool of money and repairs are an insurance/warranty thing then maybe the dude who made the decision to skimp on lubrication is not the dude who has to worry about repair costs. I worked as a breakdown mechanic in a steel rolling mill. Everyone on the floor except for me and the safety officer we paid based on bonuses for production. When an obviously stressed or broken component finally forced a stop to production I could ensure I had a crowd of angry mill workers screaming at me to hurry up and fix the drat thing. They didn't care if the patch up job would inevitably break and cause major damage. It just had to be DONE. RIGHT. NOW! Perverse incentives are the bane of proper equipment maintenance.
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Apr 18, 2018 01:41
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Darchangel posted:surely the manufacturer publishes a spec for the oil Yeah they do It's: "Use our oil or suffer"
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Apr 18, 2018 02:28
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gently caress Set screws 
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Apr 18, 2018 03:54
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Memento posted:Yeah they do There is a spec, and it is possible to go to Chevron or Shell or whatever and say "We need an oil that meets this spec, what do you have?" and get a suitable replacement, probably for cheaper. These guys knew the spec, yet opted to use the wrong oil on purpose. Whether it was purely cost cutting, or just general ignorance ala "Oil is oil, and this is what the haul trucks take," we'll probably never know for sure. xzzy posted:It might depend on budgeting. Like if oil goes into an operations pool of money and repairs are an insurance/warranty thing then maybe the dude who made the decision to skimp on lubrication is not the dude who has to worry about repair costs. Every in-house shop (that is we mainly work on company owned equipment) I've worked in, both repairs and preventative maintenance go against the service department. Oil and filters for a service, parts for a repair, and all associated labour costs (usually a number somewhere between the mechanic's wage and what they might charge an outside customer) are counted against the same department. The problem as I see it is that because in-house shops don't typically earn revenue, any management above local only sees cost, cost, cost. So there's tremendous pressure on local management to keep service costs down any way they can. If that means scrimping on oil, then so be it. After all, what's the worst that could happen. Pending mechanical failures: The rear axles, because I guarantee that even if they flush the oil system and measure the brakes like we advised, they won't take put the machine down for repairs as long as it's "working fine today!" Also they have 4 haul trucks they bought from us, and one of them is due for a 20 000 hr mid-life service, where the engine, transmission, all hydraulic pumps, axles, would all be completely rebuilt, all hydraulic hoses, o rings, seals, would be replaced. They cancelled that service because it's been running good with no issues.
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Apr 18, 2018 04:42
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iwentdoodie posted:gently caress Just grind 'em flush or simply put the new rotors on over the stubs. I hate those things on hondas.
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Apr 18, 2018 13:32
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EKDS5k posted:Pending mechanical failures: The good news is they are technically correct as it’s only going to last for 30k (or fewer) hours so it’s half-life is going to be ~15k hours at which point no service was required. Can’t argue with that logic.
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Apr 18, 2018 13:34
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EKDS5k posted:Also they have 4 haul trucks they bought from us, and one of them is due for a 20 000 hr mid-life service, where the engine, transmission, all hydraulic pumps, axles, would all be completely rebuilt, all hydraulic hoses, o rings, seals, would be replaced. They cancelled that service because it's been running good with no issues. According to the proper maintenance schedule, what's suppose to happen after 40k hours? Full overhaul?
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Apr 18, 2018 13:46
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chrisgt posted:Just grind 'em flush or simply put the new rotors on over the stubs. I hate those things on hondas. Oh, at that point they twisted out by hand. It was the drilling and swearing to get the head broken off so I could get the loving rotors off that pissed me off. Our old CX7 had them as well, and it took a torch, an impact hammer and lots of swearing before they broke loose. Thankfully these were fairly soft, so it just took some heat and a few minutes with my lovely rear end drill. Gonna have to get a new DS caliper either way, though. I pulled it apart and greased the whole thing, but it still won't COMPLETELY retract. So I guess I'm going picking this weekend.
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Apr 18, 2018 14:14
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chrisgt posted:Just grind 'em flush or simply put the new rotors on over the stubs. I hate those things on hondas. Agree. They're only mildly useful on cars that have wheel bolts instead of studs and wheel nuts. If you don't have wheel bolts then gently caress them off forever
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Apr 18, 2018 14:19
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iwentdoodie posted:Gonna have to get a new DS caliper either way, though. I pulled it apart and greased the whole thing, but it still won't COMPLETELY retract. So I guess I'm going picking this weekend. Not sure what you're working on or if you're working on the rear so this may not apply but more and more companies are using the regular rear calipers for the parking brake as well. The one's I've worked on with this you need to rotate the piston as you compress it. Bit of a pain in the rear end but parts stores have kits for rent now.
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Apr 18, 2018 15:27
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EKDS5k posted:Also they have 4 haul trucks they bought from us, and one of them is due for a 20 000 hr mid-life service, where the engine, transmission, all hydraulic pumps, axles, would all be completely rebuilt, all hydraulic hoses, o rings, seals, would be replaced. They cancelled that service because it's been running good with no issues. Kind of surprised 20,000 hours is considered a mid-life service. That's only 2.5 years of 24/7 service. Don't most major mining companies run 24/7?
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Apr 18, 2018 17:10
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glynnenstein posted:The truck's bed contacted power lines and the arcing to the ground blows up the tire. OK, I *thought* that looked like an electrical fire. One hell of a "boom", too. Memento posted:Yeah they do Well, they're not wrong, apparently. Though manufacturers designing for a special snowflake oil (or other maintenance item) rather than designing to use industry standard stuff irritates the hell out of me. That said, the company bought the trucks presumably knowing what they should be... hahahaha who am I kidding?! They never looked at maintenance costs. EKDS5k posted:There is a spec, and it is possible to go to Chevron or Shell or whatever and say "We need an oil that meets this spec, what do you have?" and get a suitable replacement, probably for cheaper. These guys knew the spec, yet opted to use the wrong oil on purpose. Whether it was purely cost cutting, or just general ignorance ala "Oil is oil, and this is what the haul trucks take," we'll probably never know for sure. quote:Every in-house shop (that is we mainly work on company owned equipment) I've worked in, both repairs and preventative maintenance go against the service department. Oil and filters for a service, parts for a repair, and all associated labour costs (usually a number somewhere between the mechanic's wage and what they might charge an outside customer) are counted against the same department. Yeah, that does seem ill considered. Not a lot of thought behind that process. quote:Also they have 4 haul trucks they bought from us, and one of them is due for a 20 000 hr mid-life service, where the engine, transmission, all hydraulic pumps, axles, would all be completely rebuilt, all hydraulic hoses, o rings, seals, would be replaced. They cancelled that service because it's been running good with no issues. Oh, FFS. iwentdoodie posted:gently caress Never seen them with two. That's overkill and amazingly annoying. Even in the best climate, those things still get hosed up, since every one I've ever encountered was made of only the finest cheese.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:32
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chrisgt posted:According to the proper maintenance schedule, what's suppose to happen after 40k hours? Full overhaul? Retirement and replacement, I guess. I think that at that point the frame and welds are considered to be at the end of their life, and the risk of major structural failure goes way up. Disgruntled Bovine posted:Kind of surprised 20,000 hours is considered a mid-life service. That's only 2.5 years of 24/7 service. Don't most major mining companies run 24/7? The one I was at had weekends and holidays off, plus scheduled downtime for maintenance, etc. I think this particular truck is around 4-5 years old. Anyway you slice it, that's a lot of time spent hauling 100 ton loads of rocks, and steel only lasts so long.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:33
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Had a terrible failure I was involved with the past couple of days. Got a call from a client of mine, needed to buy a decent size gearbox... approx $20-$25K+.  Hello! Slidebite here! Hey Slidebite, I need a gearbox. Can you help me out? Sure! Is this a new application or are you replacing something? Ah, replacing something. These Dodge gearboxes (NOT related to Dodge/Chrysler) are pieces of crap! They only last a few hundred hours! (red flag goes up) Really? What was in there before and how long did it last? A Foote-Jones. In there for 10 years and worked great! It died and we ended up getting this Dodge replacement and it's a piece of junk! Well, Dodge is actually a pretty respected manufacturer for a lot of their stuff. Their gearing in particular is actually pretty good and almost the defacto industry standard in many ways. What's the problem exactly? How did it fail? I don't know, just know it was leaking and eventually completely died. did it run out of oil? Well, it's not here. It's in a small town (about 6 hours away). But no, they told me they kept it filled. How big is the motor and what speeds are we talking about? What's the application? What's it doing? (calls the location, get the info which he relays to me) (run the numbers - checks out) Well, it looks like it should be more than adequate for the job, so something is pretty fishy here. Are your guys up there doing any condition monitoring? No No oil analysis, vibration monitoring at all? No. They look at it periodically to ensure it has oil. I see (not surprised). Well something is definitely funny here. Could be installation issues, improper oil, improper oil level, something they told you isn't right, Really, could be almost anything. Can you sell me one of the original gearboxes that lasted 10 years? What kind of warranty do they have? Well, I can, but that isn't going to help us if there is an underlying issue and warranty won't help you either. I don't want you to spend crazy money just to have it die later this year then you'll be mad at me. Besides, those gearboxes are almost 2x as much $$. Yeah I agree. But it's 6 hours away.....So, I drive 6 hours and look at it for the guy. It's a nice potential sale and I've known the guy for years so I know it'll be appreciated. So, I drive up Monday morning. Got a flat halfway in the middle of a rain/snowstorm, but made it unscathed short of getting soaked and filthy changing the tire. Got to the plant and find out it's located at the top of this mixing silo.  Great. Climb up on this miserable, cold windy morning and presented with this.  Oh dear. Can already see what I suspect the issue is, before I even step off the ladder onto the platform.  That's... that's not... good. Basically, the contractor that installed this gearbox last year didn't take the time to do it properly, either didn't know or didn't care. The sheave needs to be as close to the gearbox as possible. it's literally as far out as it could possibly go. If the motor side isn't lining up, you've got to move it so it is as low as possible. The overhang loads become tremendous when it's spaced out that far (literally darn near 6"). Not just the belt tension either, it's 75HP @ 1400RPM working through that lever, just punishing those poor bearings which in turn punishes the gearing as they wear. To top it off, due to its orientation any material wearing off from the bearings/gearing is going right in the oil sump, of which, the low speed gearing is completely submerged in so it's getting all that crud directly into that bearing and gearset. As the high speed side wears, it wears the low speed, and just cascades from there. It's just terrible. A very, very simple mistake is going to cost this company many thousands of dollars. On top of it, it didn't have a proper $25 desiccant breather on this plant critical box which is quite important for these gearboxes, especially when being used outside. The maintenance guy said "Yeah, we ALWAYS got water out of this when we drained the oil!" It's not a lovely gearbox, it's a lovely installation by a lovely contractor that should have known better. We're going to install the new one ourselves and take the old one back and see if we can reman it. Pretty sure I know exactly what the inside of it is going to look like and I'm not optimistic it'll be economical to repair. tl;dr - If something is dying far faster than you expect it to, it's probably not the fault of "it"
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Apr 18, 2018 20:33
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That was an awesome read.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:42
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Why does the sheave even go out so far on the shaft? Did they do something to just make it work?
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Apr 18, 2018 21:10
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Are you asking why is the input shaft so long to begin with? Yeah, that's a good observation. Best guess, they probably use that same input shaft on various gearboxes that might need a much wider sheave to handle the torque. IE: If you're using a 4-6-8 groove sheave the entire sheave will be wider and it wouldn't be as grotesque, but I still think it's longer than it probably need be for that general size of box. slidebite fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 21:24
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slidebite posted:
Good read. I learned some poo poo. If you end up taking that poo poo apart, you must post pics and descriptions etc, or I demand you get a 1 day probe.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:59
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Who would have thought driving a gearbox with a big pulley on the end of a gently caress-off long unsupported input shaft would be bad for it?
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Apr 18, 2018 22:05
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So you're saying that bearings don't like to be torqued off to one side for no reason?
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Apr 18, 2018 22:10
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Gearbox chat: We had to replace the main gear in one of our gearboxes onboard due to some unusual wear. The manufacturer probably hosed up the heat treatment or something as there was a lot of marks where the gear meshes with the other gear.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:32
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So out of curiosity how did you guys identify the problem? Condition monitoring or did you do a physical inspection?
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Apr 18, 2018 22:43
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afen posted:Gearbox chat: "Houston, we have a problem and it's going to need more than some duct tape and a couple of plastic bags to fix."
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Apr 18, 2018 22:45
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Dave Inc. posted:Why does the sheave even go out so far on the shaft? Did they do something to just make it work? slidebite posted:Are you asking why is the input shaft so long to begin with? That was basically my question, but I was going to play devil's advocate and say "well why is the shaft that long if you don't want the pulley there?" This is the embodiment of Murphy's law, the actual one, not "if something can go wrong it will" (that's Finagle's Law) but "if a thing can be done the wrong way someone will do it". It's the reason for polarized and keyed connectors. In other words, if you don't want someone to do a thing, make it extremely difficult, or at least inconvenient, for them to do so, so at least they *know* they're loving up, if not deterred. afen posted:Gearbox chat: That's not a trivial gear replacement. Wow.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:47
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I think in this case, and I'm totally pulling it out of my rear end, is it's just simple economics. They can use that one input shaft over a large range of gear boxes and ratios which can go in various different applications but for that specific one it probably shouldn't need to be more than half that length. The people that usually work on equipment like this are typically Millwrights and should know what they're doing and best practices but of course like you said Murphy's Law and real-world intervenes. e: Thinking about this overnight, I came up with the real reason - later post. slidebite fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Apr 19, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 22:56
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I guess there's always someone who'll ignore instructions and standards.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:26
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Darchangel posted:I guess there's always someone who'll ignore instructions and standards. I'd say the exception is the person who does follow instructions and standards.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:34
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Darchangel posted:I guess there's always someone who'll ignore instructions and standards.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:36
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