|
Phi230 posted:Catalyst is a mess. I'm pretty sure you can't even get copies of the tabletop rules anymore, I looked on Amazon and they don't have the core rules and the expansions are going for 5-10k dollars Pretty much everything is out of stock at the moment, but it's all coming back into print in the next few months in errata-corrected new printings, along with two new main box sets with re-edited rules for clarity, more modern production values, and new minis that don't look like boxes from the 80s, in order to help new players pick up the game. There is a new rulebook available right now though that is just mechs only (as they've acknowledged that that's the reason people play, for the most part) and has been written from the ground up to be as user friendly as the current rules allow while still giving people access to the vast majority of the tech toys that the game has released over the years. Xotl fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Apr 19, 2018 |
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 00:21 |
|
|
Phi230 posted:Is the tabletop really that bad? I've played a few 1v1 games this week and it's pretty normal compared to any other tabletop game fire lb 20-x at target roll 2d6 to see if it hits roll 2d6 to see how many pellets hit (6-20, depending on this result) for each pellet, roll 2d6 for location. if you roll a 2, roll 2d6 to determine if you get 0, 1, 2, or 3 crits for each crit, roll d6 or 2d6 depending on whether it's a leg/head or a arm/torso location if you hit a location that's roll again, roll again if the target took a bunch of damage in the firing phase, or ammo exploded, or had any of a bunch of crits happen, roll to see if the target falls down if the target falls down, roll for damage (including potential crits) if the target falls down, or if there was an ammo explosion, or if there was a hit to the head, apply pilot damage and roll 2d6 to see if they black out you can easily end up rolling 2d6 30 times for a single mech firing a single weapon b0lt fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Apr 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:47
|
|
|
Xotl posted:Pretty much everything is out of stock at the moment, but it's all coming back into print in the next few months in errata-corrected new printings, along with two new main box sets with re-edited rules for clarity, more modern production values, and new minis that don't look like boxes form the 80s, in order to help new players pick up the game. ...he says, conveniently failing to mention that he wrote the aforementioned new rulebook.  It's a good book, highly recommend if you like playing Battletech. It's aesthetically pleasing in addition to being much better laid out than Total Warfare.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:49
|
|
|
b0lt posted:fire lb 20-x at target I thought you grouped damage together with cluster weapons
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:54
|
|
|
I mean, I just went looking and found the products on this page but have no idea of the context in which they exist or the quality of the models. https://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/ EDIT: Ah, right, this is what was just mentioned above. Neat, I guess I'll be owning a robutt. Nickiepoo fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Apr 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:56
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:I thought you grouped damage together with cluster weapons Depends on the weapon's cluster size. LRMs are in groups of 5. But SRMs and LB-Xs are all cluster size 1, which means roll a separate location for every. single. goddamn. round.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:56
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:I thought you grouped damage together with cluster weapons Yep. Except for LB-X autocannons!
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:56
|
|
|
I just waded into the rules and I guess I don't know all the bad parts yet
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:58
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:I thought you grouped damage together with cluster weapons LB-X guns don't cluster because reasons. Fine with an LB-X 2, much slower on a 20. edit: beaten many times over
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:58
|
|
|
What kind of dummy is willingly using an LBX autocannon in the first place though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:00
|
|
|
Prism posted:LB-X guns don't cluster because reasons. Fine with an LB-X 2, Except for the fact that at that point you're using an LBX 2.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:00
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:Catalyst is a mess. I'm pretty sure you can't even get copies of the tabletop rules anymore, I looked on Amazon and they don't have the core rules and the expansions are going for 5-10k dollars Ebay is also your friend on this. 2002 edition classic BT starter set. Note that the minis kind of suck, but they're functional. $10 is a loving steal.. That's your one stop shop. You can find those for $50 now and again without trying too hard. Or you can roll your own. Buy a few maps (ebay) buy a handful of minis (ebay) and either download a pdf of the basic rules (probably  but I think there's a legit set of intro rules out there) or pick up some random orphaned boxed set rulebook off ebay for $5.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:01
|
|
|
Nickiepoo posted:I mean, I just went looking and found the products on this page but have no idea of the context in which they exist or the quality of the models. Ruleswise, it's as follows, in order (stop whenever you want, of course, but the following is the intended path): Buy the 20$ box set. Get two models and a special stripped down for dummies version of the mech rules. Buy the larger box set with eight minis. Get the full version of the mech-only rules, but no advanced tech (aka "3025 tech" only) Buy the BattleMech Manual. Get all the most common advanced rules that people actually use, plus about 95% of the advanced tech. Still mech only. Has some overlap with the next two books, as it came out later. Buy Total Warfare. Get the rules for infantry, battle armour, aerospace fighters, dropships, combat vehicles, protomechs, industrialmechs, zeppelins. Recommend waiting for the new printing, as there's a lot of errata corrected. Buy Tactical Operations. Get 4 jillion optional rules so that you can fight on a low-g worlds in the middle of a sandstorm while being swarmed by locusts, surrounded by lava, and having artillery shells rain down on you. Get a ton of gear for non-mech units. Recommend waiting for the new printing, as there's a lot of errata corrected. After that, it's whatever you actually feel like branching out into (increasingly higher level and abstract mass combat rulesets, running your own mercenary unit, designing your own machines, era-specific niche gear, more aerospace stuff, etc etc etc). But it's all pretty niche from this point on. Xotl fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:02
|
|
|
b0lt posted:fire lb 20-x at target 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:04
|
|
|
Also re: LBX silliness when you're first starting, just roll with the most basic 3025 ruleset. We can argue all day about what the superior era is, but the rules for 3025 equipment are about as simple and streamlined as it gets. You can get a new player into a game with that with minimal fuss.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:04
|
|
|
I should say I found Total Warfare at goodwill and wanna continue on that line
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:04
|
|
|
Zaodai posted:Except for the fact that at that point you're using an LBX 2. I originally had LB-X 5 there but decided to change it at the last minute. Perhaps... too much. Edit: And yeah, the LB-X isn't even used in 3025. Double edit: vvvv the AC/2 doesn't really have much of a use either, but the big thing with the LB-X is that it takes up a bazillion crit slots; an AC/2 takes up just one, but a LB-X 2 takes four despite still being a 2-damage weapon. The things are huge even if they're no heavier than a regular AC/2. Prism fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Apr 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:05
|
|
|
Zaodai posted:Except for the fact that at that point you're using an LBX 2. the smaller lbx’s were great as anti air flak and for taking out battle armors chewing on your rear end in living legends, not sure if that came from the tabletop or was part of Wandering Samurai’s attempts to actually balance most of the mechwarrior weapons
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:07
|
|
|
Don't mind me, I'm just the guy using the mecha equivalent of a shotgun in a universe where concentrated fire is king.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:07
|
|
|
William Henry Hairytaint posted:Don't mind me, I'm just the guy using the mecha equivalent of a shotgun in a universe where concentrated fire is king. They're decent for crit seeking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:09
|
|
|
They're great weapons (as are SRMs) when you've already whittled a guy down, because you normally have a hard time hitting any given spot. If you punched a hole through the armour in a place or two, a widespread cluster attack is likely to find those holes through sheer weight of rolling hit locations, and then you start rolling up the critical hits. Even 1 damage to the internal structure can blow something to pieces.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:09
|
|
|
Also you can carry both shotgun and normal slug ammo. if you've got 2 tons of ammo for an LB20x, for example, you slam him with normal AC rounds until there's a hole, then switch to shotgun for the next one to blow out systems. edit: IIRC they ARE loving nasty ify ou turn them on infantry too
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:10
|
|
|
Yeah, but you'd generally want a 5 or up for that. The 2 is pretty garbage. Speaking of, are any variant ammo types in this game? I think some of the specialty missiles would be in-era. edit: vvvvv eh, they're okay. You can still make it shoot a lot, and rotary ACs only go up to 5 anyway. They're heavy, though! 8 tons. Rotary AC-5s are 10 so you may as well see if you can squeeze the extra couple tons out of somewhere if you're going to use rotaries at all, but those take up a lot of crit space too. Prism fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:10
|
|
|
Prism posted:Yeah, but I'd generally use a 5 or up. The 2 is pretty garbage. Well, yeah. In TT pretty much any variant on the general theme of "AC2" is hot garbage. edit: disclaimer, don't rmeember how good rotary AC/2s were, don't know if they are still trash.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:11
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:I should say I found Total Warfare at goodwill and wanna continue on that line If you have Total Warfare, I like the TechManual (All the rules and methods to build custom mechs/tanks/aeros/protos/battlearmors/CRAZY SILLY LARGE SUPPORT VEHICLES), and Tactical Operations, because I love the silly crazy extra rules for all the things like: Xotl posted:Buy Tactical Operations. Get 4 jillion optional rules so that you can fight on a low-g worlds in the middle of a sandstorm while being swarmed by locusts, surrounded by lava, and having artillery shells rain down on you. Get a ton of gear for non-mech units. The TechManual's examples are really funny though for some of the more extreme stuff- There's a demo of building out a 60,000 ton blue water Battleship, a unit that occupies like 7 hexes on it's own. Naturally, in classic BattleTech fashion, this gigantic ship spends all of.. 290 tons on weapons. Or 537 once you add turrets, fire controls and ammo. Because  (I mean really the reason is if you didn't put 10,000 ton cargo bays on all of these large units then they'd have so many weapons that they'd be untouchable and the combat system would break, but, it makes for really funny reading when you see stats for SLDF warships or blue water BBs like this that have less firepower than two lances of Mechs.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:15
|
|
|
It's the scrunt of the battletech world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:20
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Also you can carry both shotgun and normal slug ammo. if you've got 2 tons of ammo for an LB20x, for example, you slam him with normal AC rounds until there's a hole, then switch to shotgun for the next one to blow out systems. *Turns corner, finds self looking directly at the front of a Demolisher II* FUUUUUU- *Mech explodes* The LB 10-X is a very solid all-rounder.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:21
|
|
|
I never followed that normal LBX rule for obvious reasons. Just used the corresponding missile chart (AC-20 = LRM 20 etc.) then grouped into 5 pt segments. Seemed easier that way.
Major Spag fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:25
|
|
|
Don asked a streamer and apparently the Unit emblems are stored in a 256x256 .dds format. So if you're making your own unit, there you go. Paint.net can save in .dds natively, most other image editors probably can too. 
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Apr 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:31
|
|
|
And if for some reason you don't already have Nvidia's dds plugin for Photoshop, let me save you some googling: https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-texture-tools-adobe-photoshop
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:33
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:Is the tabletop really that bad? I've played a few 1v1 games this week and it's pretty normal compared to any other tabletop game Two problems there: first is that 1v1 is not common. 4v4 is more standard, and I've played in 12v12 games more than a few times. It gets progressively more complicated - not just from the rolling and table-consulting, but because the more units there are on the map, the more you have to think about your moves or get hyper-murdered. Second, well, I have this image saved for a reason. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:38
|
|
|
I would like to organise a tourney for release, something simple while everyone is still working out the game and we can hopefully see some kind of meta evolve. I have two ideas, but I am very open to suggestions: A. Forced lance comp of 1 Light, 1 Medium, 1 Heavy, 1 Assault - Mech Customisation available - Max Cbill limit B. Stock only - no forced lance comp - Cbill limit. Thoughts? Interested? We would run it through the goon Battletech Discord, which is great and available here: SA Battletech
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 00:22
|
|
|
So apparently Dark Age was it's own game system? Was it more streamlined in the ways that posters were discussing that BattleTech is not? Post more Hieronymus Bosch demon mechs plz. Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Apr 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 00:22
|
|
|
An HBS dev made A really good Steam guide for the game, which I think would probably be a pretty good addition to the OP. It's super detailed and includes some fairly obscure mechanics information so I would suggest reading it if you're into that sort of thing even if you played the skirmish beta. Example of poo poo that I did not know: Support weapons ignore evasion, apparently? Level 10 piloting skill gives 25% reduction to DFA self damage 
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 01:23
|
|
|
Galaga Galaxian posted:Don asked a streamer and apparently the Unit emblems are stored in a 256x256 .dds format. So if you're making your own unit, there you go. Quoting for later use
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
Baron Porkface posted:So apparently Dark Age was it's own game system? Was it more streamlined in the ways that posters were discussing that BattleTech is not? Dark Age was poop. It was one of those systems where advancing was punishing and so artillery was king of the battlefield. 99% of the Battlemechs were awful and you avoided them at all costs, while your main armies usually consisted of shitloads of peasant/light infantry building human walls around artillery positions and a couple of fast vehicles/vtols/the one or two good mechs in the game that would try and get past their lines to hit their arty. How about the mech that has a tank on its back. The Goliath.  Also remember that time Shredder was a battlemech. 
kingcom fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Apr 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
In TT or HBS is there a conception of overriding heat-related shutdown and risking injury/destruction like you can in the MechWarrior games?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 01:30
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:In TT or HBS is there a conception of overriding heat-related shutdown and risking injury/destruction like you can in the MechWarrior games? Kinda. There are 2 heat thresholds, the first causes internal damage to your mech, the second shuts your mech down. Your pilots have a Guts skill which increases the 1st threshold to be higher and higher, representing your pilots being able to better ride the heat line.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 01:33
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:In TT or HBS is there a conception of overriding heat-related shutdown and risking injury/destruction like you can in the MechWarrior games? There's no auto shutdown to avoid damage, like in mwo, so yes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 01:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 00:21 |
|
|
So you can't override the shutdown in the name of desperation (or at least wanting to make the enemy victory Pyrrhic), you have to turn off at the second threshold? Rats. Guess that simplifies things though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2018 01:35
|
|