Irish Politics Thread: an aristocracy of incompetence

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happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

crispix posted:

Tbh I have very mixed feelings about the language.

I'm the same as you, but from the catholic side.
Christian Brothers school in the 90s, all catholic, and Irish and French was drummed into us from 11 until 13.
And its a loving mess imo. Languages should be taught to us from an earlier age, like everywhere else in the EU and other parts of the world.
Expecting us to learn two new languages at once, especially a useless one like Irish, it's no wonder the main hook to learn it is political.
At 13 we could select our GCSEs (lol Im old), and holy poo poo no one wanted Irish. They had to force us to take it, and most failed it. I did.

Now I am working in the Republic, surrounded by Germans, Swedish, Polish, Russians, Spanish, and I can't understand what they say when they talk to each other, or when their customers talk to me that I could help with.
But gently caress that, I can understand a few of the smaller words of badly dubbed Super Ted on TG4!

# ? Apr 22, 2018 13:26

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# ? May 15, 2024 07:31

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

It sure is a hosed up old island, all right.

# ? Apr 22, 2018 14:51

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

WeAreTheRomans posted:

Also, heartened by the very pro-choice tenor of the 1992 referendums, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_constitutional_referendums,_November_1992

I wouldn't read too much of a pro choice attitude from the 92 referendums, though people read the 12th as restricting suicide as a grounds for termination it also importantly would have inserted permission for termination on other grounds. The full text was:

quote:

It shall be unlawful to terminate the life of an unborn unless such termination is necessary to save the life, as distinct from the health, of the mother where there is an illness or disorder of the mother giving rise to a real and substantial risk to her life, not being a risk of self-destruction.

If I remember correctly the pro life crowd opposed it on the grounds that it would insert a constitutional permission for abortion and they still refused to accept even limited abortion.

The 13th was a bit more clear cut cause a lot of people found the treatment of X to be a bit heavy handed.

And the 14th was p much forced by Ireland losing Open Door and Dublin Well Women v Ireland at the ECHR

Looking at the 25th vote might be more reflective but who knows:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2002_(Ireland)

# ? Apr 22, 2018 14:54

WeAreTheRomans: Feb 23, 2010; by R. Guyovich

kustomkarkommando posted:

Looking at the 25th vote might be more reflective but who knows:

Fair enough, I was being uncharacteristically cheery, must be the nice weather.

I agree, the 25th is probably a better reflection of trends, still encouraging though.

# ? Apr 22, 2018 15:02

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

I'm still a bit loving tetchy about sub-50% yes results and repeated assurances undecideds will break yes considering the mess that was the SSM referendum polling and even the Lisbon polling that were out by over 10% at times.

# ? Apr 22, 2018 15:25

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Those 25th amendment details are horrifying. It came scarily close to passing. And it wasn't even that long ago, it was this century... Rural Ireland really is still dangerously stuck in the 1950s.

# ? Apr 22, 2018 22:12

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

The 25th ammendment was a clusterfuck of attempted compromise to try to finally create some kind of framework off the back of the X case after decades of prevarication - so the ProLife crowd where given risk of suicide being dropped as grounds for termination while the ProChoice crowd where offered a legislative definition on the beginning of protection for the unborn being after implantation which would clarify the legality of the morning after pill (which was a fuzzy area). Some prolife groups, youth defence, where against it because "life begins at conception" etc etc

There was some lukewarm acceptance from doctors, midwifes etc backing a Yes vote to finally create a workable legislative framework but then Deirdre Conroy (of D v Ireland) had a letter published in the Irish Times detailing her experience with her FFA and pointing out the changes to the laws would do nothing to help women in her position - which forced some of the weak Yes supporters to admit their where significant flaws in the proposal.

Probably worth pointing out that since then the Supreme Court ruled in R v R in 2009 that constitutional protection for the unborn in fact does only begin at implantation (in a case dealing with frozen embryos) so the olive branch being offered in 2002 was p lovely

# ? Apr 22, 2018 22:42

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

It was v much pitched to voters as the reasonable middle ground solution between the two "extremes" and lord we do know how tiger-era voters lapped that shite up (that still do)

# ? Apr 22, 2018 22:49

irlZaphod: Mar 26, 2004; Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

crispix posted:

Tbh I have very mixed feelings about the language. I have no problem with it - it seems like a lovely language, but it is hugely political here in NI and I cannot be outside of that. I went to school at an extremely working class (second worse in NI at the time - I was there thanks to selective education, i developed late - seriously, my voice did not break until i was almost 16 years old) protestant school so there was no possibility of teaching there. There was one guy in my year who was catholic and he was "the catholic guy". Anyway, I mean I missed out on learning it at school and since leaving school I have a lot of poo poo to do by way of surviving. I will be honest, if I had the time to invest in achieving fluency in a language I would learn German because it'd make me more indispensable at work.

I mean, I have done the Duolingo stuff and have picked up enough from friends to be able to pronounce Irish and recognise stuff, but I would have no idea how to string together a sentence in the language. I think the point I wanted to make is that there are a lot of people here in the north who are ready to embrace their Irish citizenship but are alienated from the language not by choice but because of circumstance, and up here that actually contributes to divisions and that really is the last loving thing we need :/

You can be Irish without speaking the language.

My Dad is from Belfast and moved to Dublin in the 70s. Probably only spoke about 5 words of Irish. In recent years, he and my mother have joined local Gaeilgeoir groups and have begun speaking it quite regularly.

If you want more resources, there are the Pop-Up Gaeltacht groups also.