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Dallan Invictus posted:Can someone clear up how evasion works now? I'm used to tabletop where the number of hexes you move determines how much of a penalty exists to hit you, but I get the impression that evasion is subtly different? Certain terrain and pilot abilities give you actual damage reduction against attacks, which tends to be better than evasion. This is also because evasion modifiers are actually stacking pips and every time you're shot at, you lose one pip. That Spider with the +5 to hit can be taken out with focused fire since after a couple of half hearted pot shots his way he actually only has a +3 to hit, etc. The Sensor Lock ability also plain takes two evasion charges off its target. Movement is still very important, but as you said - subtly different.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:53
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Dallan Invictus posted:Can someone clear up how evasion works now? I'm used to tabletop where the number of hexes you move determines how much of a penalty exists to hit you, but I get the impression that evasion is subtly different? As you move you'll accumulate evasion charges (-10% to hit per), more with more distance, jumping builds them faster and they only last until your next activation. So far, so Tabletop. The differences are that you are limited to 4 max by default and you lose 1 charge every time you are attacked (even if the attack misses, number of weapons fired at you doesn't matter). But evasion also stacks with the damage reduction kind of defense - there's cover (25%), which is entirely terrain based, and guarded (50% damage reduction) which you can get either by giving up your shooting action or having a certain pilot skill and not moving (they don't stack). What a lot of people seem to not grasp is that 50% damage reduction is going to help you a lot more than one or two evasion charges. There's also no penalty to your own accuracy if you've moved unlike TT - so unless you have Bulwark, you always want to move as far as you can without breaking your optimal distance/cover/Line of Sight. Standing still without Bulwark is....kind of like standing still in Tabletop, but worse because you don't even get the benefit of being more accurate that way. You can also get rid of and ignore the various defenses in various ways, which helps a lot with making fights more dynamic. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 23:11
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Bulwark seems rediculously good, especially on the larger mechs which have a fairly limited ability to generate evasion unless you're jumping your max range every turn, which is a significant heat investment. You can still rotate while bulwarked so you can casually shield your damaged components and tank a huge amount of fire. The disparity in usefulness between bulwark's 50% straight up damage reduction with a few caveats vs. evasive movement adding just 10% more evasion (which can be stripped) is quite significant.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:14
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I think Piloting compensates by having an equally ridiculous 2nd tier ability (move after shooting) and fantastic passives (more evasion charges max?!), while Guts gets...melee pushes the target back one initiative.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:24
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Kiva/Isulder has said that she is considering having Juggernaut and Bulwark swapped.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:29
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Yeah, guts seems like a great initial skill to invest in if only for the incredible survivability increase of bulwark and +1hp. After that gunnery seems to be a great investment for a short range brawler such as an Orion or Atlas while grabbing piloting and finishing guts is great for a melee oriented mech.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:34
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Kiva/Isulder has said that she is considering having Juggernaut and Bulwark swapped. That would make me very sad because I'd have to get a useless bad skill to get the best skill, but I guess it's more balanced. I'd still probably get it for most mechwarriors but it does make it more appealing to have a dedicated breaching shot LRM pilot.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:41
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Something Beagle mentioned that I would like to see implemented in the future / in a following game is seeing a (even procgen) portrait&name for opforce Mechwarriors. Even better if the procgen pilots that survive can be faced again when fighting against the same enemy faction. I feel like this would add a lot of character / emerging gameplay potentials with little additional effort (as the procgen pilots system is already there for the potential hires and even existing enemies have a "role" assigned to them based on their strong point). At the moment the opfor is a bit impersonal, unless it's a main plot mission. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 23:43
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That'd be neat. A mini-Nemesis system. One of the best things in MechAssault 2 were the occasional OpForce banter where the Wobbies would be:  "Don't worry, the captain will get 'em!" "The captain's dead!"
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Apr 22, 2018 23:46
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How long will we have to wait from release to Battletech: Dragonfall, which I presume is a Kuritan campaign during the clan invasion through to about the fall of Luthien? So many more shiny robots to come. I'm not sure what the Hong Kong analogue would be, but by that point maybe the balance issue for larger player forces (it being tedious juggling the enemy so they don't trickle in and instantly die OR needing to turn everything into assaults) will have been figured out, even if it just means we can occasionally negotiate additional support as part of some contracts rather than getting full additional deployment slots. Several of the story missions streamed already have allied, even controllable, NPCs, so it seems rather doable once the heat is off from the initial release.
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Apr 23, 2018 00:00
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MilkmanLuke posted:It's pretty much what you think. Going further is more evasion. Evasion pips are cumulative penalties to hit. Jumping adds evasion as well. Each shot at you (hit or miss) strips one pip. Further to this, you are capped at 4 Evasion max with low skill pilots, which equates to roughly 20% difficulty to hit. A forest provides 25% damage reduction to ALL attacks coming from the front and sides. So if you are in a slower mech and already in a forest, sometimes it is better to sit still. (Also some streamers have been misinformed by twitch chat that moving penalises your own shooting. This is totally incorrect.) That said, the ShadowHawk in the starter lance can move fast enough to build 4 stacks of evasion and still shoot really easily. Once you level up your piloting skill, you can pick up Evasive Pilot as your first ability, which gives you a free evasion stack just for moving, right after that you can increase the amount of stacks you can hold. A high skille pilot can have 6 stacks of evasion.
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Apr 23, 2018 00:05
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PoptartsNinja posted:That'd be neat. A mini-Nemesis system. It totally works if you take the 'futuristic knights jousting' element of the setting and play that up. Most of the time mechwarriors survive having their ride shot out from under them. You can totally play it that combatants regularly face each other.
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Apr 23, 2018 00:06
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Alchenar posted:It totally works if you take the 'futuristic knights jousting' element of the setting and play that up. Most of the time mechwarriors survive having their ride shot out from under them. You can totally play it that combatants regularly face each other. I mean, it would be weird to face a dispossessed pirate or bandit in a new ride, even if they're a leader; and I assume we'll be running into returning bad guys in the main story missions. But even just a memorable pilot portrait or name, especially if mixed up with some :thatsbattletech: happening, could go a long way into giving procgen enemies a lot of character.
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Apr 23, 2018 00:18
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PoptartsNinja posted:That'd be neat. A mini-Nemesis system. Seriously, Ace Combat style banter from the other side responding to what you're doing is amazing and always on my desperate wishlist for games like this Fighting EXALT in xcom 2012 you got those lines sometimes and even as limited as they were it made them way more fun to fight than otherwise
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Apr 23, 2018 00:21
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 Something Awful Battletech Launch Tournament! Seeing as the game is about to launch, and everyone is hype as gently caress for it. We want to run a friendly multiplayer tournament to set the foundation for a fun pvp scene in the game. HBS are really keen for a competitive scene for the game, with Solaris Arena still on the cards and their recent hiring of network engineers to help them make sure that their multiplayer is cheatproof. In preparation, lets smash some mechs into each other and learn the game. Tournament Rules 1. Stock Mechs Only 2. 25 Million C-Bill Limit 3. This is a quickfire tournament, so you have 48 hours from the pairings being posted to organise and play your round. 4. Winner gets bragging rights Signup sheet is here. Signups are open until Tuesday 24th of April. I will post the pairings when the game is released.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:12
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Phrosphor posted:
I'll be ready to cheer you noble goons up - I'm travelling and I won't be able to guarantee my presence. Do we know if there is a spectator mode for MP?
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Apr 23, 2018 01:17
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PoptartsNinja posted:That'd be neat. A mini-Nemesis system. Remember that one pirate in Crimson Skies who you kept shooting down over several missions and he kept getting more and more mad at you, until all his banter devolved into angry shouting? Recreating something like that would be neat.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:25
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evilmiera posted:Remember that one pirate in Crimson Skies who you kept shooting down over several missions and he kept getting more and more mad at you, until all his banter devolved into angry shouting? Ace Motherfucking Dixon  :"And don't you bother bailing out, cause I'll pop that chute like a belt buckle!  " "Not again! NOT BLOODY AGAAAAAIIIINNN. "*
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Apr 23, 2018 01:29
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Ace Motherfucking Dixon Or Burrs Black Cobras in MW4:M, who only reappear if you explicitly wipe out the first Lance you engage. And they let you know they've taken jobs just to get at you
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Apr 23, 2018 01:36
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Phrosphor posted:
aww yiss, i am getting right in on this poo poo we are gonna have a good time tuesday cannot come soon enough
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Apr 23, 2018 01:37
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Ace Motherfucking Dixon Yep, looked up the name just now. The VA nailed it and it just worked so perfectly, building your own little story arc of him starting out somewhat threatening... And then you just dunk on him over and over.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:39
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Kiva/Isulder has said that she is considering having Juggernaut and Bulwark swapped. RabidWeasel posted:That would make me very sad because I'd have to get a useless bad skill to get the best skill, but I guess it's more balanced. I'd still probably get it for most mechwarriors but it does make it more appealing to have a dedicated breaching shot LRM pilot. Something I was reminded of with what partial hunks of Beagle's streams I've sat down and watched so far. Not his Orion soaking fire in that big brawl against a ton of 1/4 armor mechs. The overall multi mission trend of Beaglerush forgetting/having to be reminded of that enemies had guarded status. A big deal towards trying and failing to crack open a seemingly vulnerable section with precision shots. If early low skull mission enemies couldn't ever get bulwark, would the benefits to your killing efficiency balance out the loss of using one of your pilots to bulwark tank in the early game? Or would the raw volume of enemies still make it a net loss rather than a sidegrade meta shake up? Enemy skills seem to be a big loving deal, even their passive gains. But since so many people know literally 1,000 times more about Battletech than me? I just sort of naively assume nobody should be surprised by the results. Like when blowing all your moral to absolutely gently caress up heavy mech's pilot and then turn their ride weaponless Popsicle still doesn't kill the pilot 
Section Z fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 02:07
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Phrosphor posted:
I haven't played any of the beta at all, so I'm 100% ready to get my poo poo kicked in. I've got an unavoidable commitment coming up in a few (four) weeks, will this be wrapped up by then?
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Apr 23, 2018 02:07
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Strobe posted:I haven't played any of the beta at all, so I'm 100% ready to get my poo poo kicked in. I've got an unavoidable commitment coming up in a few (four) weeks, will this be wrapped up by then? Should be easily over, we want it to be a quick tournament for fun while no-one really knows what they are doing.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:10
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Phrosphor posted:Further to this, you are capped at 4 Evasion max with low skill pilots, which equates to roughly 20% difficulty to hit.evasion. It's 40% which is quite a lot better (+2 difficulty per pip, each + or - difficulty is 5%) - and it stacks with light mechs "I am small" bonus. 4 Pips is already a coin-toss four anyone shooting you (at least it is if the target is a light mech), which is very good. But taking 20% off the top for 2 pips? That's still pretty good odds you're gonna eat big damage. Better Brace that up. Or at the very least only take a shot at 2 pips if you also have cover. On the potential Juggernaut and Bulwark swap - it sort of make sense because Bulwark is so strong, but it would probably have huge impact on the early game balance in ways you'd need a lot of play time or be a lead designer to anticipate. vvv At 6 Pips you are basically Phantom Meching this poo poo. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 02:43
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Phrosphor posted:Further to this, you are capped at 4 Evasion max with low skill pilots, which equates to roughly 20% difficulty to hit. ^^^^^ edit: beaten on evasion I thought each evasion pip was a 10% malus to hit, not 5%? Also, even with the Evasive Movement and good Piloting, evasion buildup is restricted to the speed of the mech, so it becomes progressively worse compared to Bulwark as you use heavier mechs. Then again, Mult-Shot and Breaching Shot may become more of a thing, if the AI can use it right.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:43
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I'm like Kai Allard Liao levels of thirsty for this poo poo
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Apr 23, 2018 02:45
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Tournament info added to the 2nd post Phrosphor. Thanks for going to the trouble.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:57
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That Italian Guy posted:Yeah I think atm there's a bug where you can just stack all the armor you want front/back without limitation. Galaga Galaxian posted:Yeah it's a known bug but the fix won't be in for launch unfortunately. sebmojo posted:People are going to hate it when that gets fixed, won't it be a big difficulty increase? Is there an easy way to tell what the limit should be so that we can stay inside it? It’ll irk me if I build cool mechs and then the day 1/2/whenever patch invalidates my designs.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:08
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DatonKallandor posted:On the potential Juggernaut and Bulwark swap - it sort of make sense because Bulwark is so strong, but it would probably have huge impact on the early game balance in ways you'd need a lot of play time or be a lead designer to anticipate. Don't forget to give yourself 20 lashes if all your lance injuries in a mission are pure chance headshots you suffer while at 4 and up evasive pips, that's playing like a streamer after all. Section Z fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 03:10
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Right above the armor section, it will say Max X.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:10
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This is just fan theorycrafting, but something I'd like to see about the OpFor MechWarriors is something akin to a Nemesis System that generates mercenary opponent outfits. So let's say at the start of the game it will generate you five other mercenary outfits: for an example, let's say one is Goon Company. Their leader is a real nice guy. And when you're opposing them mid-battle he'll ask for clearance to withdraw. You can either agree, or say no. Because he's a real nice guy he'll be very pleased when you say "sure,  ", and then when you face him on a later contract he'll send a message saying "I'm glad we're facing you, at least I can trust you to be honorable." Likewise, if the shoe is on the other foot he'll let you withdraw with no hesitation, and if he captures some of your MechWarriors he'll even send them back to you with no fuss or ransom (a nicety you can return).On the other hand, you have, say, Sky's Shitheads, whose commander is a real dick. He'll ask you for permission to withdraw then send you a real dickhead message saying "you loving idiot don't think I'll thank you for this prick." And he'll pretty much never let you withdraw without maybe a bribe. Next time you face them, he'll say "you let me withdraw last time and you'll regret it this time, prepare to die." And maybe sometimes when you capture one of his MechWarriors they'll just straight up say "can you hire me, I don't want to go back to him." Sending them back and selling their request to defect out is basically the only thing that he'll like because he wants to get vengeance upon them for even thinking about betraying him. Likewise maybe you'll have contracts where you're working with someone and if the honorable dude really likes you he'll come riding on on a metal babby to save your rear end, and if you're with the dick and something goes wrong with his forces he'll go ballistic on you like "YOU MOTHERFUCKER DIDN'T DO ENOUGH TO HELP ME." Something that would let you build up situations akin to the Wolf's Dragoons/Waco Rangers, where you do something and suddenly you have a nemesis. Or allies.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:14
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Back Hack posted:Right above the armor section, it will say Max X. Cool!
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Apr 23, 2018 03:16
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UberJew posted:Seriously, Ace Combat style banter from the other side responding to what you're doing is amazing and always on my desperate wishlist for games like this I'm losING CONTROL OF THE SITUATION was always a blast
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Apr 23, 2018 03:21
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Sky Shadowing posted:nemesis stuff A whole honor/dishonor/nemesis system, where your behavior towards an enemy changes your relationship with them and their faction, seems like something rather outside this game's design goals. For a Dragonfall-esque Clan Invasion expansion, however...
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Apr 23, 2018 03:23
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Coucho Marx posted:A whole honor/dishonor/nemesis system, where your behavior towards an enemy changes your relationship with them and their faction, seems like something rather outside this game's design goals. Yeah it's HBS's proven track record with sequels and learning from missteps that has me hype for the future of the game. From what I've seen on streams I know it'll be better at the offing than Shadowrun Returns was, equivalently
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Apr 23, 2018 03:26
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Kitfox88 posted:I'm losING CONTROL OF THE SITUATION was always a blast Again, MW4:M managed it and it was great. "Mercenary SCUM, prepare for battle"  Glitch is currently the Best Pilot just for her chatter. Shes so excited 
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Apr 23, 2018 03:27
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Just thinking about the game in the future. We could run a builders league on SA. Start off with four light mechs, then every-week get a sum of money that raises the max value of your lance, so you can buy new mechs or customise your current ones.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:30
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Paingod556 posted:Again, MW4:M managed it and it was great. "Mercenary SCUM, prepare for battle" I really wanna play MW4M but I cannot for the life of me find a control scheme that makes it not miserable to play. 
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Apr 23, 2018 03:32
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Phrosphor posted:Further to this, you are capped at 4 Evasion max with low skill pilots, which equates to roughly 20% difficulty to hit. It seems like a Shadow Hawk would be a good "scout" mech for a much heavier lance. It's strong enough to eat lights, fast enough to keep good evasion and sturdy enough to take punishment while still staying in the "medium" weight for initiative. As well as having a decent melee profile (and some support slots) if you really want to punch someone in the back. Phrosphor posted:Just thinking about the game in the future. We could run a builders league on SA. Start off with four light mechs, then every-week get a sum of money that raises the max value of your lance, so you can buy new mechs or customise your current ones. I wonder if you could run all the battles as AI vs. AI, and let the RNG play your terrible lance comp.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:37
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