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SpaceDrake posted:BattleTech has always had a certain deliberate pace and I would expect some reviewers to bounce off of it heavily. A few bits of the UI not providing quite as much information as they probably should isn't going to help, either. Yeah, honestly that's the best kind of bad review, in that it's very very specific about what the reviewer didn't like and you can decide whether you care about that pet peeve or not. There's no need to overreact and go all Heretic! Blasphemer! about the author or the site. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 12:46
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Gravy Jones posted:Probaly best to check a couple of gameplay videos on youtube to see for yourself. I'd say it definitely leans more towards the slow plodding than XCOM, but I'm not sure how much slower it really is or how much it just feels slower due to the way 40 tonnes of lumbering metal is animated as opposed to special forces and skittish aliens, which is how it should feel. The UI for movement and combat looks pretty good and snappy though, possibly a bit less fiddly than XCOM. I watched 20 hours of streaming and it didn't seem slow, so I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.
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Apr 24, 2018 12:50
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Drone posted:The indication is that the animations are too slow for many people. Mechwarrior was always way cooler than Gundam.
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Apr 24, 2018 12:59
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linall posted:Don't be silly. It's the car itself that you have to worry about in that scenario. I would totally let them hurt me because I am a monster that callously throws the lives of his troops away while laddering starcraft. 
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Apr 24, 2018 13:01
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sebmojo posted:I watched 20 hours of streaming and it didn't seem slow, so I'm going to take it with a grain of salt. Yeah, I was fine with what I watched. Someone used the word "deliberate" early and that's a good fit. I want my mechs to move like that. It can be hard to be certain based on streams because the thinking-out-loud aspect of them can slow everything down. Fortunately not long until we can see for ourselves. I think the relatively low unit count helps somewhat, especially with out-of-combat movement, that did seem a little tedious (or I've always found a little tedious in a lot of RPG type games).
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Apr 24, 2018 13:02
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i don’t know much about the guy who wrote the review so maybe he has a lot of bad opinions elsewhere but the complaint that the game moves slowly, especially when compared to xcom, does not seem unjustified. whether or not it’s slow enough to make you repeatedly shriek how bored you are often enough to make your spouse put in earplugs, well, i’m not so sure about that
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Apr 24, 2018 13:12
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I just watch someone streaming a game or a quick look from gb
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Apr 24, 2018 13:12
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ZenVulgarity posted:a quick look from gb As much as I love GB I can only imagine one good scenario for their Battletech quicklook: Vinny playing with Alex commenting. Any other possible combo has far too much potential for  when it comes to BT.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:14
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:God forbid people read a review and discuss the validity of the arguments being made instead of dismissing the whole site in a flurry of logical fallacy. The reviewer actively indicated how much he wanted to like it, how the game should have been exactly what he likes to play, and how hard it is to enjoy it because of what he thinks is poor pacing. That seems like a valid criticism to me. Not in this echo-chamber! He didn't like the pacing ergo he's a bad human being, lacks the intelligence to play the game, in fact the whole website he writes for is trash and should be burnt to the ground. They just don't 'get' it, the animations are supposed to be slow!
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Apr 24, 2018 13:15
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Drone posted:As much as I love GB I can only imagine one good scenario for their Battletech quicklook: Vinny playing with Alex commenting. Any other possible combo has far too much potential for :facepalm: I was about to say, given how some people have reacted to streamers taking their time to get their heads around the game or playing poorly due to lacking an encyclopediac knowledge of thirty years of Battletech lore and mechanics the quicklook is probably going to cause some heads to explode (twice if it's Dan, who does actually like turn based strategy, he's just terrible at them). I went back to rewatch Vinny and Alex's quicklook of Factorio (which sold me on the game originally, but I've since put several hundred hours into it) and almost had an anyeurism. They should bring back Austin as a special guest. Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 13:19
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Drone posted:He can't get past the pacing of animations, it seems like. TBH aside from the 1 lance limit this is my number one complaint from watching streams, it's got that classic slow "idle-walk-idle-aim-shoot-idle" crawl and I understand why it's happening, but its dumb when mechs are rocked by attacks, stand up normally, pause briefly, then explode and keel over (I don't always see this one though so maybe it was a beta thing?)
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Apr 24, 2018 13:22
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Gravy Jones posted:I was about to say, given how some people have reacted to streamers taking their time to get their heads around the game or playing poorly due to lacking an encyclopediac knowledge of thirty years of Battletech lore and mechanics the quicklook is probably going to cause some heads to explode. I went back to rewatch Vinny and Alex's quicklook of Factorio (which sold me on the game originally, but I've since put several hundred hours into it) and almost has an anyeurism. They should bring back Austin as a special guest. The problem (which I definitely think has gotten worse in the past year or so) is that they seem like they've been doing less and less prep work for games before sitting down to do a Quick Look of them. Like, I don't expect them to invest 20 hours into a game or anything before making a video, but more often than not they get basic details about games wrong , to such an extent that a lot of the time they actually misrepresent something. It even extends to basic stuff like price and platform -- multiple times recently I've heard them say things like "is this on Steam? I thiiiiink soooo?" or "what's it cost, 29? 39? maybe?", all of which are sorta hard to rationalize. Put that poo poo on a note card beforehand, it's information that people are gonna wanna know.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:24
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I can buy animations being too slow and there being too many little pauses between them. It can lead to hilarious comic timing: But in a lot of circumstances that beat between the punch and the zap will start to annoy me. It's a legit complaint.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:27
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SpaceDrake posted:I've said it before, but the fact that MW5, HBS BTech, and the updated BT box set are all going to be set in 3025 or later has me legitimately going Hmm Good points, op. I'm extremely interested in seeing if they can springboard HBS Btech into a tabletop game. I'd love to at least try out something like that, if only because I'd still get to have my stack of lovingly crafted mech sheets with armor locations, etc., but also with new initiative, terrain, and to-hit systems. Gravy Jones posted:They should bring back Austin as a special guest. Yeah he always did a great job with showing off strategy games and even in a quick look format, was good at highlighting where satisfying strategic depth was to be found. Finster Dexter fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 13:33
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a bit. The people running development of these games aren't dumb and know that people who played in the 90s are going to be very attached to Cool Clan Designs and Their Sick rear end Mad Cats and whatnot, but there is a conscious effort being made across three different products to go back to the time prior to the Fourth Succession War and the advancement of any of the metaplot from the 80s and 90s. And regardless of me bumbling into white savior tropes and whatnot, I bumbled into it because I was trying to make the point that the previous metaplot had a really bad case of Space Is For White Guys and had bad problems with representation and the piling on of a whole goddamn mess of problematic elements (and people somehow still not getting the message that the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguars are THE BAD GUYS even with all the poo poo they do because of wider American cultural memetics doesn't help either).
is that it really would not surprise me at all if Weisman & co. want to perform a reboot of the BTech timeline, both to address a lot of the problems and cruft that built up since the 80s and also to smooth out some of the wilder problems that Star League and Clan tech had rules-wise.
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Drone posted:The problem (which I definitely think has gotten worse in the past year or so) is that they seem like they've been doing less and less prep work for games before sitting down to do a Quick Look of them. Like, I don't expect them to invest 20 hours into a game or anything before making a video, but more often than not they get basic details about games wrong , to such an extent that a lot of the time they actually misrepresent something. It even extends to basic stuff like price and platform -- multiple times recently I've heard them say things like "is this on Steam? I thiiiiink soooo?" or "what's it cost, 29? 39? maybe?", all of which are sorta hard to rationalize. Put that poo poo on a note card beforehand, it's information that people are gonna wanna know. They chastise themselves for doing that regularly, but it's not like anyone is watching in an environment when that information isn't at their fingertips anyway. I can see how the shift could be a problem, but for me it isn't particularly as I'm usually watching for entertainment rather than information (I'm more likely to watch a QL for a game I have no intention of playing). If I want to watch someone play Battletech I'd probably skip the quicklook and go straight to a strategy/tactics streamer. If I want to watch someone playing Giant Machines 2017 (my favourite QL), then Giant Bomb will do.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:36
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As for the shooting through terrain thing I think that's pretty legit as well https://youtu.be/JJNC0xA5XSk?t=1h28m21s starts at 1:28:20 if the time stamping didn't work. It's not like it clipped through the edge of terrain, the locust shoots clean through a building. There's other glitchy animations like mechs falling over on the first shot and the rest of the salvo's impacting on thin air above the fall bot. None of these things will stop me playing and enjoying the game immensely, it's just hilarious to see people trying to play them off as nothing just a few pages after making GBS threads all over  's MechWarrior 5 trailer for swapping damage states.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:36
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The shooting through terrain thing happens in every game like this though. And unlike XCOM, Battletech at least tells you which enemies have vision to any given spot before moving to it.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:45
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nah the animations definitely ought to be speed up across the board, or perhaps just click-skipable. shove a bunch of small lasers on your mechs and grief MP by having all your shoot phases take ten seconds
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Apr 24, 2018 13:46
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RBA Starblade posted:Mechwarrior was always way cooler than Gundam. I mean I'm mostly with you, but are there any mechs in Mechwarrior with a rad mech moustache? Gonna be a long day at work waiting to come home and unlock this game.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:49
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DatonKallandor posted:The shooting through terrain thing happens in every game like this though. And unlike XCOM, Battletech at least tells you which enemies have vision to any given spot before moving to it. XCom tells you that you have cover from the left, right, front etc. Battletech does not. In that clip it would not be unreasonble to think that the if the locust moved to where it did then it wouldn't be able to shoot because there's a building in the way. You're always going to get clipping through terrain but that looks like it just ignores a massive building. Again it's not about the vision you have, it's about trying to guess what vision your opponents will have after they move.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:49
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Gravy Jones posted:Probaly best to check a couple of gameplay videos on youtube to see for yourself. Yea, I guess, but every game looks dull as poo poo to me when watching other people play it, so videos never help me much. But it sounds like the game is going to be easily moddable, so I guess if the action is too slow some nerd will fix it for me. How fussy/detailed is the mech building/combat? Like, if XCOM is a 5 and JA2 is a 10, where does this thing fall?
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Apr 24, 2018 14:02
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i thought xcom just told you whether you had half or full cover and determining whether or not you were flanked was left as an exercise to the user (draw an imaginary line for the cover extending out into infinity, shots from the side of the line the target is on are flanking shots)
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Apr 24, 2018 14:03
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Aramoro posted:XCom tells you that you have cover from the left, right, front etc. Battletech does not. In that clip it would not be unreasonble to think that the if the locust moved to where it did then it wouldn't be able to shoot because there's a building in the way. You're always going to get clipping through terrain but that looks like it just ignores a massive building. Again it's not about the vision you have, it's about trying to guess what vision your opponents will have after they move. As I understand it, in the gameplay I've seen there are LOS lines stretching from your mechs to their targets that correspond to the ability to fire on said targets with your weapons suite. There are also little red eyes on enemy mechs which indicate enemies that have LOS on you (and therefore can fire on you) from your chosen position. I may be wrong though. Those UI elements might mean something else.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:06
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Can I have a mech with just heavy machineguns
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Apr 24, 2018 14:07
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Frank Starman posted:As I understand it, in the gameplay I've seen there are LOS lines stretching from your mechs to their targets that correspond to the ability to fire on said targets with your weapons suite. There are also little red eyes on enemy mechs which indicate enemies that have LOS on you (and therefore can fire on you) from your chosen position. You're totally correct. I honestly think they did a way better job of this than the x-com reboot, or even X-com 2. You can tell at a glance, even with a streamer, whether or not they're going to be able to shoot something from a place before they move.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:09
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The official release-day livestream starts in ~45 minutes: https://twitter.com/BATTLETECH_Game/status/988767275573538818
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Apr 24, 2018 14:13
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Why didn't HBS include these in the Kickstarter??? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Battletech-Command-Kit-Fanny-Hip-Pack-Rare-Unused-FASA/253578385972
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Apr 24, 2018 14:13
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Yeah, the game will tell you exactly whether you have line of sight to enemies (and vice versa) for any given position, and whether it's partially obscured (resulting in lower accuracy). However, that only works for the positions that your enemies are in right now. So it looks like it could be a bit tricky to tell how protective a piece of terrain is from different angles. For example, you might hop behind a hill that gives you perfect cover from where the enemy is right now, but then in his turn it turns out that he only needs to shuffle over two steps to the right to regain LoS.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:14
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I watched a couple of Deagle's streams, and I kinda agree with the boring criticism, I ended up killing it mid-mission. 20 hours in and it just felt so slow. I want to love this, everything about it is Stuff I Love, but I think I'm actually going to hold off till the initial euphoria wears off and some less biased reviews appear.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:14
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Other reviews, a lot more positive all round: Eurogamer (Recommended) PC Gamer (85/100) Very positive Polygon impressions here. 3 hours left and we can all fill our boots.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:15
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Caros posted:You're totally correct. I honestly think they did a way better job of this than the x-com reboot, or even X-com 2. You can tell at a glance, even with a streamer, whether or not they're going to be able to shoot something from a place before they move. Didn't xcom 2 more or less implement the same thing though? It might've been a patch/update after release that I'm thinking of
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Apr 24, 2018 14:16
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Cowcaster posted:Didn't xcom 2 more or less implement the same thing though? Yup: when moving a unit, you'll get little red icons for all the enemies your soldier is able to see from that point, and yellow icons for flanked enemies.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:19
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lofi posted:I watched a couple of Deagle's streams, and I kinda agree with the boring criticism, I ended up killing it mid-mission. 20 hours in and it just felt so slow. I want to love this, everything about it is Stuff I Love, but I think I'm actually going to hold off till the initial euphoria wears off and some less biased reviews appear. I dunno why you have to wait for reviews in this day and age, you can see everything you need to see from umpteen streamers. It's not like waiting is going to change what the game actually is, unless you waited long enough for a patch. The pace of combat is just plain quite slow and it's not biased any way to say that. (You could always increase it by just slamming down moves rapid fire, but it wouldn't be a great gameplay experience because you'd just end up shot to poo poo in harder missions).
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Apr 24, 2018 14:22
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Cowcaster posted:Didn't xcom 2 more or less implement the same thing though? It might've been a patch/update after release that I'm thinking of Xcom 2 was as good when you are getting shot at, but I think the line to target is an easier visual way to see who you can shoot from a given position.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:28
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By and large the overwhelming opinion I've seen is that the game has a few issues (as games do) but it's still an incredibly deep and fun game.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:29
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All games are allowed to have flaws and still be really good 
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Apr 24, 2018 14:30
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Gwaihir posted:I dunno why you have to wait for reviews in this day and age, you can see everything you need to see from umpteen streamers. Because it's a long game. If Deagle's still getting going 20h in, I'm not watching another 20h to find out if it speeds up any. It's not just the combat, the between-mission pacing feels pretty laboured as well, and it's hard to tell how much of that would improve with experience.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:33
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Looking at that mech list made me realize they took the marauder out of the game for that stupid lawsuit. Really hope they get patched in or something now that that isn't a thing anymore. Marauders are the best look at this little guy.   so sad...
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Apr 24, 2018 14:35
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Beagle tends to be laboriously slow in playstyle at tactical games be it XCOM or this. It took him an hour and a half of faffing around in the strategic layer last night before getting to the first mission of the stream.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:36
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Mazreal posted:Looking at that mech list made me realize they took the marauder out of the game for that stupid lawsuit. general scuttlebutt seems to be based on the outcome of the lawsuit against PGI, Harebrained might officially patch them in down the line, but even without waiting for that modders have been hard at work taking care of the issues themselves.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:39
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