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carry on then posted:can't wait to be unable to use my ide if i don't have a net connection. one of the IDEs I work with already does this the schematic capture tools do this too i'm almost certain the cad software that the mechanical guys use also refuses to start if it can't phone home welcome to the world of the future
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Apr 25, 2018 18:46
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Imagine if Microsoft Word was your GUI toolkit and programs could only be written in VBA What we got was only slightly better than that
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Apr 25, 2018 18:47
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Blotto Skorzany posted:one of the IDEs I work with already does this Swr (stallman was right)
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Apr 25, 2018 18:48
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Sapozhnik posted:Imagine if Microsoft Word was your GUI toolkit and programs could only be written in VBA vba is unequivocally better than javascript.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:52
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still true if vba stands for "very brutal anal" given the nature of javascript
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Apr 25, 2018 18:57
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Sapozhnik posted:Imagine if Microsoft Word was your GUI toolkit and programs could only be written in VBA also all of your programs are actually just really big .doc files, and they have to be run in a full Microsoft Word window
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Apr 25, 2018 19:00
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Blotto Skorzany posted:one of the IDEs I work with already does this Im familiar with a line of business windows app for use in property management that has required a net connection since it came out 20 years ago It's stupid
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Apr 25, 2018 19:08
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Shaggar posted:vba is unequivocally better than javascript. explain
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Apr 25, 2018 19:13
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vba has a real type system
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Apr 25, 2018 20:05
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Shaggar posted:vba has a real type system no it doesn't
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Apr 25, 2018 20:15
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Sapozhnik posted:Imagine if Microsoft Word was your GUI toolkit and programs could only be written in VBA does vbscript still work in modern versions of ie?
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Apr 25, 2018 20:15
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:no it doesn't yes it does.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:30
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Dim Shaggar
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Apr 25, 2018 21:19
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On Error Resume Next (actually this has been ported to javascript https://github.com/mattdiamond/fuckitjs )
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Apr 25, 2018 21:26
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HappyHippo posted:javascript sucks but being able to just go to a website and use the application is so much nicer than having to download and install poo poo agreed, it's pretty sweet. for example why would you want to install a dedicated rss app when you can just use google reader
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Apr 25, 2018 21:38
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DELETE CASCADE posted:Dim Shaggar
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Apr 25, 2018 21:45
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Sapozhnik posted:On Error Resume Next you joke, but https://github.com/ReactiveX/rxjs/blob/master/src/internal/operators/onErrorResumeNext.ts
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Apr 25, 2018 21:47
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Thermopyle posted:Also, each of my most used web apps has its own window without an address bar and it's own icon don’t worry, it probably did this by including an entire browser stack in its installation rather than use the operating system’s browser stack, so it doesn’t get any of the OS security fixes, exploit mitigations, power/battery enhancements, etc. at the same time as the OS (and may never get them) also it doesn’t get to take advantage of shared library caches or even VM page sharing so enjoy your higher memory use and enjoy your lovely non-native UI that doesn’t quite fit in with or work like anything else
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Apr 25, 2018 22:00
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Sapozhnik posted:Imagine if Microsoft Word was your GUI toolkit and programs could only be written in VBA it might even be arguable that what we got is worse than that VBA’s semantics might suck but they might suck less than LiveScript’s delenda est JavaScript
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Apr 25, 2018 22:03
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Sapozhnik posted:Imagine if Microsoft Word was your GUI toolkit and programs could only be written in VBA oh, you've used some of our internal enterprise tools?
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Apr 25, 2018 22:05
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eschaton posted:don’t worry, it probably did this by including an entire browser stack in its installation rather than use the operating system’s browser stack, so it doesn’t get any of the OS security fixes, exploit mitigations, power/battery enhancements, etc. at the same time as the OS (and may never get them) Chrome > More Tools > Add to desktop I already addressed your other points
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Apr 25, 2018 22:36
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Thermopyle posted:Chrome > More Tools > Add to desktop lol no you didn't you just hand waved them away with your opinion
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Apr 25, 2018 22:37
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Soricidus posted:agreed, it's pretty sweet. for example why would you want to install a dedicated rss app when you can just use google reader this is definitely an irritating downside of web apps
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Apr 25, 2018 22:38
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carry on then posted:lol no you didn't you just hand waved them away with your opinion yes, "addressed" does not mean "proved you wrong" me: this and this doesn't bother me other person: the downside is this and this me: yes, i addrssed that
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Apr 25, 2018 22:39
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Thermopyle posted:Chrome > More Tools > Add to desktop Thermopyle posted:I already addressed your other points
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Apr 25, 2018 23:15
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DELETE CASCADE posted:what is the point of this non sequitur, it has nothing to do with eschaton's post Does it not directly address the following? eschaton posted:don’t worry, it probably did this by including an entire browser stack in its installation rather than use the operating system’s browser stack, so it doesn’t get any of the OS security fixes, exploit mitigations, power/battery enhancements, etc. at the same time as the OS (and may never get them) DELETE CASCADE posted:also saying "yes this is a problem but i don't care" is not really useful in discussions on the quality of things im discussing why a person may continue to use something that is less than ideal
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Apr 25, 2018 23:21
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Thermopyle posted:Does it not directly address the following? not if this is true Thermopyle posted:each of my most used web apps has its own window without an address bar and it's own icon like if you download the slack app and you run it from its icon you are getting slack's embedded browser
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Apr 25, 2018 23:24
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DELETE CASCADE posted:not if this is true Try doing what I said. It creates a desktop icon with the sites favicon that opens a chromless, address-bar-less window and it uses your installed version of Chrome...which, on Windows at least, is going to be updated way more frequently then the OS-provided browser.  The reason I brought it up is because I knew eschaton was thinking of Electron apps like Slack which are exactly as he describes.
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Apr 25, 2018 23:33
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oh wow i'm sorry i read your post as saying "add chrome to your windows desktop" rather than "use this feature of chrome to generate an icon for your web app on your windows desktop" never mind i'm an idiot carry on javascript is still bad tho
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Apr 26, 2018 00:14
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i am a foremost expert in trying to do push the boundaries and do things in browsers. the amount of walls, barriers, bugs i hit in core web apis is over the top ridiculous. things are broken and busted and far from fixed. often times there will be issues on the browser trackers with no momentum to even start fixing. a lot of the time there is a "oh wow this is completely busted" comment from a browser dev. yet no fix. browsers are, uh, getting but i still run into compatibility issues between chrome and firefox every few weeks. to give a recent example, you would think that one of the things that would probably be hashed out by now would be entering text in a textfield, since that's like 90% of complex interactions on the web. hahahaha nope, editing is so screwed up and hosed that there's NO standard for any sort of editing support and every browser does it differently. there's a spec but there seems to be absolutely no momentum. here's a bug i ran into: https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/160 and that's just inserting text. keyboard events, for a start, are completely hosed between different browsers. they have a "key" property and a "code" property but there is not even remotely any consistency between what's mapped to what. just take a look at this mess: https://github.com/novnc/noVNC/blob/master/core/input/util.js this isn't even getting into apis that are broken by design, like the web audio stuff
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Apr 26, 2018 02:07
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javascript is a terrible foundation for an application platform and i have absolutely no expectation that anything will work in a browser.
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Apr 26, 2018 02:08
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i'd be ok with the web platform if it WORKED. unfortunately, all of the major players seem to throw their hands up and not care and instead are spending their efforts solving problems everybody stopped caring about 5 years ago, like adding HTML Components and Shadow DOM and Service Workers
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Apr 26, 2018 02:09
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Thermopyle posted:Chrome > More Tools > Add to desktop Thermopyle posted:Try doing what I said.
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Apr 26, 2018 03:01
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Suspicious Dish posted:i'd be ok with the web platform if it WORKED. unfortunately, all of the major players seem to throw their hands up and not care and instead are spending their efforts solving problems everybody stopped caring about 5 years ago, like adding HTML Components and Shadow DOM and Service Workers If you're operating with the assumption "any or many imperfections in the web platform mean that it is complete poo poo" I've got some bad news for you re imperfections in other platforms, shades of grey, and things that are not always joys to work with but are nonetheless needs-suiting
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Apr 26, 2018 03:06
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Choosing between VBA and JavaScript is like picking between MRSA and genital herpes.
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Apr 26, 2018 04:11
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I mean back in the day things were equally hosed in the balkanized world of Unix. Then Linux wiped everybody else out so now there is a happy consensus of one. There are upsides and downsides to a platform's spec being a 10,000 page document instead of 16 million lines of C++. That being said browser devs are a bunch of juvenile fuckups and so are the people who manage them.
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Apr 26, 2018 04:46
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Soricidus posted:agreed, it's pretty sweet. for example why would you want to install a dedicated rss app when you can just use google reader thanks for reminding me about google's most infuriating decision
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Apr 26, 2018 04:47
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Suspicious Dish posted:the amount of walls, barriers, bugs i hit in core web apis is over the top ridiculous. things are broken and busted and far from fixed. often times there will be issues on the browser trackers with no momentum to even start fixing. a lot of the time there is a "oh wow this is completely busted" comment from a browser dev. yet no fix. this is because running code in web pages is deprecated delenda est JavaScript
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Apr 26, 2018 05:17
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Suspicious Dish posted:i'd be ok with the web platform if it WORKED. unfortunately, all of the major players seem to throw their hands up and not care and instead are spending their efforts solving problems everybody stopped caring about 5 years ago, like adding HTML Components and Shadow DOM and Service Workers perhaps they’re throwing us their hands because they care, and understand that web pages don’t need to run code HTML Components sounds like some sort of “composing web pages together” thing so it probably makes sense to spend time on but browser vendors should stop worrying about poo poo like Shadow DOM and Service Workers, web pages don’t need either of those things because web pages are for presenting hierarchical text documents, not for running code
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Apr 26, 2018 05:21
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eschaton posted:this is because running code in web pages is deprecated april first was nearly a month ago
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Apr 26, 2018 06:53
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