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Space Whale posted:Is he a "Nate G"? share with the class
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Apr 29, 2018 08:14
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Fiedler posted:Fun fact: SQL Server on Linux includes a bunch of Windows bits. Like, for example, you can run .NET assemblies in SQL on Linux because the full framework CLR is there (no, not .NET Core). There's a shim layer so that Windows can run in Linux user land and SQL Server runs alongside Windows. So, from a certain point of view, you do need Windows to use SQL Server. I was more referring to using SQL server from Linux. It's unfortunate that SQL server is actually really loving good, because the Unix ODBC driver is a humongous buggy piece of poo poo from what I remember.
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Apr 29, 2018 10:29
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to get non-Windows people to accept it they should call the non-Windows version by a different name maybe something like “Sybase”
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Apr 29, 2018 10:59
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I suspect, for the most part, the pitch for non-Windows people begins and ends with "We're not Oracle."
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Apr 29, 2018 11:13
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Fiedler posted:Fun fact: SQL Server on Linux includes a bunch of Windows bits. Like, for example, you can run .NET assemblies in SQL on Linux because the full framework CLR is there (no, not .NET Core). There's a shim layer so that Windows can run in Linux user land and SQL Server runs alongside Windows. So, from a certain point of view, you do need Windows to use SQL Server. the mainsoft port of Internet Explorer for solaris/hp-ux was even worse about this they basically reimplemented all of win32 on top of motif and unix
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Apr 29, 2018 16:10
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qhat posted:I was more referring to using SQL server from Linux. It's unfortunate that SQL server is actually really loving good, because the Unix ODBC driver is a humongous buggy piece of poo poo from what I remember. unixodbc is really very simple. freetds, the driver specifically for ms sql and sybase, is also fairly simple, and quite robust. but unless you are on perl or something i don't know why you would use either one. there's a native jdbc driver for ms sql, no odbc required
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Apr 29, 2018 16:12
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the mainsoft port of Internet Explorer for solaris/hp-ux was even worse about this wikipedia posted:It was further reported that Steve Ballmer, then executive vice president of Microsoft, had shown an interest earlier in the month for a Microsoft browser to run on Unix as part of the strategy to wage the browser wars should've let balmer keep running the show at microsoft
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Apr 29, 2018 17:45
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in retrospect it was pretty good that the eu kept microsoft from realizing the electron webapp-on-the-desktop vision 15 years earlier. those were 15 good years.
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Apr 29, 2018 17:50
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imagine electron but it’s based on internet explorer
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Apr 29, 2018 17:52
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:in retrospect it was pretty good that the eu kept microsoft from realizing the electron webapp-on-the-desktop vision 15 years earlier. those were 15 good years. microsoft had precisely the inverse vision you keep writing native win32 apps but they are downloaded and executed inside the browser, for ... reasons
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Apr 29, 2018 18:02
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Boiled Water posted:imagine electron but it’s based on internet explorer i don't think that'd make it worse, the biggest issue with that eras ie was that it stopped actually improving with time. tie it into some platform apis and it may actually serve as a better basis for applications than taking a random version of webkit/blink and applying a broad mix of patches to it, repeating the process every few weeks Notorious b.s.d. posted:microsoft had precisely the inverse vision while they had that direction too the (pre-restart) vista stuff was going in very much a mix-and-match direction very reminiscent of electron. to some extent the random native api exposing in electron was intended to be done with activex components instead, but it was not a one-way sort of vision from what i have figured Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Apr 29, 2018 |
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Apr 29, 2018 18:02
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:while they had that direction too the (pre-restart) vista stuff was going in very much a mix-and-match direction very reminiscent of electron. to some extent the random native api exposing in electron was intended to be done with activex components instead, but it was not a one-way sort of vision from what i have figured this was always the vision for activeX, but it sucked turns out writing jscript/activescript/vbscript in the browser is a horrible development environment, and people pushed as much as possible into the activeX side to avoid browser work
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Apr 29, 2018 18:20
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Boiled Water posted:imagine electron but it’s based on internet explorer a faster electron would be better, but it would still not be good
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Apr 29, 2018 18:21
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:unixodbc is really very simple. freetds, the driver specifically for ms sql and sybase, is also fairly simple, and quite robust. Freetds doesn't support the newer features like alwayson etc, so you're basically forced to use the closed source MS driver which is buggy. This was about 4 years ago though, I don't know if it's improved since then.
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Apr 29, 2018 18:25
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qhat posted:Freetds doesn't support the newer features like alwayson etc, so you're basically forced to use the closed source MS driver which is buggy. This was about 4 years ago though, I don't know if it's improved since then. alwayson did not even exist the last time i needed freetds 
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Apr 29, 2018 18:35
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:unixodbc is really very simple. freetds, the driver specifically for ms sql and sybase, is also fairly simple, and quite robust. Microsoft provides an odbc driver for macOS and Linux that includes support for mssql features like Always Encrypted. The community supplied alternative, FreeTDS, of course does not. The best option on unix, though, is .Net Core.
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Apr 29, 2018 18:36
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the mainsoft port of Internet Explorer for solaris/hp-ux was even worse about this at least motif already looked and behaved like Soviet Windows so IE fit in reasonably with other Motif applications
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Apr 29, 2018 18:48
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qhat posted:Freetds doesn't support the newer features like alwayson etc, so you're basically forced to use the closed source MS driver which is buggy. This was about 4 years ago though, I don't know if it's improved since then. They did some work to improve the driver as part of the SQL on Linux effort, so I suspect the situation is a bit better now. I'd doubt that it's rock solid at this point, though. Fiedler fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 29, 2018 |
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Apr 29, 2018 18:48
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the mainsoft port of Internet Explorer for solaris/hp-ux was even worse about this Office for Mac also re-implements a bunch of Windows functionality. Given the tendency, historically, to re-write win32 it's almost refreshing that the SQL Server team decided to just ship the loving Windows binaries directly.
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Apr 29, 2018 18:56
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eschaton posted:at least motif already looked and behaved like Soviet Windows so IE fit in reasonably with other Motif applications it really didn't of course, ie didn't fit in on windows, either ie was even hypothetically portable because all its controls were custom-drawn, it used nothing from win32 for the user interface (mainsoft did have to port all the lovely threading and process creation and filesystem APIs from win32 though)
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Apr 29, 2018 18:57
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Boiled Water posted:imagine electron but it’s based on internet explorer This existed 15 years ago and was really prevalent. Windows Explorer had an embedded web browser, and you could even put one as your wallpaper ("Active Desktop"). AIM and Steam put an mshtml.dll-powered web view in their apps, and it was fast and lightweight as hell because HTML rendering engines weren't the ridiculous insanity they are now, and were used for showing documents with basic scripting. I remember several people working on "app frameworks" not unlike Electron that were powered by mshtml.dll.
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Apr 29, 2018 19:21
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eschaton posted:you’re welcome the insanity of the thing was impressive though -- a graphics abstraction based on a c++ reimagining of an existing framework, no fucks given about hardware acceleration ityool 2018 and no plans for input abstractions or anything that could make it useful for cross-platform ui it really was isocpp.txt
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Apr 29, 2018 20:57
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Sagacity posted:why was the graphics proposal even considered for so long when apparently the general consensus was "we don't need this". it wasn’t so much a “considered proposal” as “some people who were interested in a thing were working on it and presenting their progress every so often” what happened this time is that the right people were in the room (because they learned that this was a thing) when they were presenting their progress that the people working on it could be told to stop some supporters were pretty upset by this as they claimed to want a standard graphics lib as a teaching aid or something like that, and they’re honestly not trying to supplant platform libraries (honest!), but that’s not why standard libraries exist and it’s a transparent bullshit excuse
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Apr 29, 2018 21:38
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i think the main reason it took so long to get a concrete "no, this is an awful idea stop wasting your time on it" is that it was just so obviously a terrible idea that everyone just assumed they could ignore it and it'd either die on its own or mutate towards something actually useful then it turned out that whoops, the proposal authors had actually just spent years polishing a turd and disregarding everyone who had tried to tell them it was the wrong direction
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Apr 29, 2018 21:52
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Boiled Water posted:is image what or whom? do tell If we know the same Nate chem engineer he's currently a terrible data science professor in Denver and a dick to women at that
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Apr 29, 2018 22:01
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Plorkyeran posted:then it turned out that whoops, the proposal authors had actually just spent years polishing a turd and disregarding everyone who had tried to tell them it was the wrong direction
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Apr 30, 2018 09:03
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:this was always the vision for activeX, but it sucked either way we will most likely get to see another round of that, microsoft keeps growing the edge team without really pushing a ton of stuff to the browser itself, so i think it is a fair guess that they are going to intertwine uwp and edge way deeper in a future version which is likely to be unpleasant, but they may not yet be entirely too late on it. electron and friends are still pretty crummy, and being able to leverage their actually good dev tools for it may go some way
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Apr 30, 2018 12:47
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Space Whale posted:If we know the same Nate chem engineer he's currently a terrible data science professor in Denver and a dick to women at that i dont know any chem engineers but thats no reason for you not to tell a story
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May 1, 2018 03:03
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Sagacity posted:it's the right call i think, but it's still a shame that such a proposal needs to exist. if third party libraries were just a little easier to consume... i guess vcpkg will solve all of this until modules eventually arrive, am i right even with a good and working package manager there's some value in being able to just use the standard library's foo rather than figuring out which of the eight foo libraries is most needs-suiting
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May 1, 2018 05:46
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Plorkyeran posted:even with a good and working package manager there's some value in being able to just use the standard library's foo rather than figuring out which of the eight foo libraries is most needs-suiting this is true of things like data structures, common algorithms, io, and in some cases networking etc. I’m not sure it’s true of graphics, where most of the common requirements I can think of are pretty specific (“I need to plot a graph and output to pdf”, rather than “I need to draw circles and lines on an abstract device-independent canvas”)
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May 1, 2018 08:32
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Plorkyeran posted:even with a good and working package manager there's some value in being able to just use the standard library's foo rather than figuring out which of the eight foo libraries is most needs-suiting There's no value in using iostream.
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May 1, 2018 15:39
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there is, it's just that the sign is negative
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May 1, 2018 16:33
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the c++ stdlib is so goddamn bad lol, i'm amazed anybody uses it
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May 1, 2018 17:34
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im also surprised anyone uses c++
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May 1, 2018 17:58
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Thermopyle posted:im also surprised anyone uses c++  but then again what is the alternative?
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May 1, 2018 18:10
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the alternative is challenging bjarne stroustroup to single combat and beheading him
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May 1, 2018 18:15
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Boiled Water posted:
if you're writing a video game right now, nothing credible. all the console vendors' sdks use c++. all the middleware libraries you might want to rely on use c++. embedded stuff and hpc you're probably better off using straight c any sort of data processing which is more io bound than compute bound, lol what the gently caress are you doing use a managed language for god's sake
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May 1, 2018 18:43
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good news! im a high level programmer!!
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May 1, 2018 19:54
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anything short of triple a and you're not going to be loving with engine internals, so something higher level is fine. every unity game is written in c# now.
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May 1, 2018 19:57
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im not a gamedev but unity seems like trash to me like you're not off to the best start when you open up your tools and find something built around MonoDevelop, the internet explorer of ides, looking at you
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May 1, 2018 20:13
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