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Tias posted:Mate of mine just said Jordan Peterson isn't a nazi when I told him. Am I getting names wrong, or didn't he encourage that mosque shooter? Tia thread that's Shapiro who encouraged the mosque shooter Peterson is just a willing collaborator
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Apr 30, 2018 20:37
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Azathoth posted:To bring this around to incels, they're a subset of those who get stuck on this treadmill where nearly all of their income on maintaining their current status and instead of doing something about it, such as adjusting spending, pursuing education, other self improvement, etc., they just stew in their own resentment. I think incel beliefs mostly form around high school, before income is a direct concern. They definitely demonstrate very stereotypical high school-ish social dynamics, at least. Anyway, Elliot Rodger had rich parents and dropped out of college, not for financial reasons presumably.
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Apr 30, 2018 20:39
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peterson is not a nazi, clearly, as he only wants the gays genocided
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Apr 30, 2018 20:40
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not a nazi, just a fascist
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Apr 30, 2018 20:41
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Tias posted:Mate of mine just said Jordan Peterson isn't a nazi when I told him. Am I getting names wrong, or didn't he encourage that mosque shooter? Tia thread not a nazi. more just a conservative.
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Apr 30, 2018 20:50
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jordan peterson is just a 21st century version of 19th century british social darwinist professors who wrote eight books on the Hibernian Skull Shape in between shots of liquid cocaine
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Apr 30, 2018 20:53
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I don't get the weird need to make a distinction between Nazi and fascists I've encountered in the wild from otherwise seemingly normal people and it's retrospectively terrifying because it's a distinction without difference and I really hope it's not wide spread.
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Apr 30, 2018 20:55
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Yeah, my friends freaked the gently caress out and now hate me because I called Peterson a nazi. I guess not hurting conservative feelings is a lot more important than whether they encourage racial hatred, who knew?
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Apr 30, 2018 21:16
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FaustianQ posted:I don't get the weird need to make a distinction between Nazi and fascists I've encountered in the wild from otherwise seemingly normal people and it's retrospectively terrifying because it's a distinction without difference and I really hope it's not wide spread. Branding. They want to replicate the conditions that caused the Holocaust without the baggage of the history of it.
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Apr 30, 2018 21:22
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Nazi's? How gauche! No, we are nationalists that seek ethnostates through violent means, not Nazi's.
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Apr 30, 2018 21:24
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just remembered that one of my high school flames ended up with the autistic large son who wore crocs and sweat pants all the time. they have a daughter  .these incel guys really loving suck
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Apr 30, 2018 21:29
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I think it's important to distinguish (Nazis, Fascists, and White Nationalists) and (White Supremacists and garden variety racists) not because of hurt shitheel feelings, but because recognizing the difference gives some predictive power to which tactics they will employ and so helps determine the best ways to fight them. The former are more or less uninterested in the political process (notable exceptions like Steve King aside) and are going to be far more likely to use outright violence. Shows of force and intimidation work well against them, as their primary fear is looking weak or foolish. The latter are more content to work within the system, because the system already largely enforces their goals. They have no desire to kick out or genocide any group, because those groups serve an economic purpose to them. That is to say, the former view themselves as the vanguard of a revolution, while the latter are very invested in the status quo. They'll gladly work together on areas of common ground, but it is a mistake to lump them together.
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Apr 30, 2018 21:45
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Dr. Killjoy posted:just remembered that one of my high school flames ended up with the autistic large son who wore crocs and sweat pants all the time. they have a daughter holy poo poo, you went to school with matt's wife??
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Apr 30, 2018 21:50
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Even if it's not accurate in terms of what a particular fascist believes their historical tradition is, "Nazi" as a descriptor serves to remind of what fascism accomplishes.
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Apr 30, 2018 21:54
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Dr. Killjoy posted:just remembered that one of my high school flames ended up with the autistic large son who wore crocs and sweat pants all the time. they have a daughter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcAsad-E9CQ
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Apr 30, 2018 22:09
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Does anyone have the clip about Jordan Peterson discussing the "Jewish question" because that's a good argument in favor of him being an actual nazi
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Apr 30, 2018 22:19
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Epic High Five posted:that's Shapiro who encouraged the mosque shooter Yeah. Peterson is what the Nazis referred to as a "romantic nationalist," an older school of reactionary thought emerging from nostalgia toward 19th century nationalism and empire building. EDIT: jerry seinfel posted:Does anyone have the clip about Jordan Peterson discussing the "Jewish question" because that's a good argument in favor of him being an actual nazi Which is not to say that he's not a fellow traveler to many aspect of Nazism, just that I don't think he ticks quuuuuite enough boxes (and is certainly enough of a priggish intellectual that he'd sneer at them as thuggish parvenus). Captain_Maclaine has issued a correction as of 22:35 on Apr 30, 2018 |
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Apr 30, 2018 22:33
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Branding. They want to replicate the conditions that caused the Holocaust without the baggage of the history of it. I get why Nazis are interested in making the distinction, I'm talking about average people thinking it's important, are they just internalizing facist propaganda? Should I intervene or is it already too late? EmpyreanFlux has issued a correction as of 23:15 on Apr 30, 2018 |
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Apr 30, 2018 22:46
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FaustianQ posted:I get why Nazis are interested in making the distinction, I'm talking about average people thinking it's important, are they just internalizing facust propaganda? Should I intervene or is it already too late? To co-op the old saying about geeks and nerds, "Anyone who defines a difference between fashies and Nazis is a fashie and a Nazi."
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Apr 30, 2018 23:03
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Azathoth posted:I think it's important to distinguish (Nazis, Fascists, and White Nationalists) and (White Supremacists and garden variety racists) not because of hurt shitheel feelings, but because recognizing the difference gives some predictive power to which tactics they will employ and so helps determine the best ways to fight them. 
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Apr 30, 2018 23:05
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Tias posted:Yeah, my friends freaked the gently caress out and now hate me because I called Peterson a nazi. I guess not hurting conservative feelings is a lot more important than whether they encourage racial hatred, who knew? Ask them to explain the difference between a race realist and a Nazi.
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Apr 30, 2018 23:05
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Call them snowflakes
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Apr 30, 2018 23:08
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DreamShipWrecked posted:To co-op the old saying about geeks and nerds, "Anyone who defines a difference between fashies and Nazis is a fashie and a Nazi." I mean that's the easy answer, I just don't know if this is the early stage where you can still reach them or if it's too late and they're terminal. Like what's a good sign someone isn't a lost cause?
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Apr 30, 2018 23:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The cyclical revolution of American politics already operates as a release valve for those reactionary tendencies. The Trump administration already represents a blacker reaction to what came before it. They don't need the Black 100s patrolling the streets when they've got ICE. The primary road-block to confronting the crisis of capitalism is the politics of respectability, and the deferment to institutional power as being legitimized by virtue of being official. People think the defining crisis of our time is that the dignity of the oval office is destroyed. Anyway, Trump got in over migrant panic, but there's still room for things to get worse, and the next big thing may be gender poo poo.
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Apr 30, 2018 23:30
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You can analyze the distinctions as long as you acknowledge their shared fate
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Apr 30, 2018 23:30
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FaustianQ posted:I mean that's the easy answer, I just don't know if this is the early stage where you can still reach them or if it's too late and they're terminal. Like what's a good sign someone isn't a lost cause? Speaking seriously, there isn't such a thing as a "lost cause" when it comes to this. The thing to remember that textbook facism is not a specific ideology, it is a form of government that favors centralized power and believes that using the military to bolster the economy is legitimate. Everything else is ideology, in the same way that Stalinism isn't the same as communism. In that sense, facism is a pretty common thing. Arguably most of what the US does already is a soft facism, given how we use our bloated military to secure natural resource rights. What you are more asking is whether someone can be permanently indoctrinated into ideological facism, with the marching and the xenophobia and whatnot. And like all things, of course not. That kind of hatred, by its nature, cannot stand to be challenged because it has no actual leg to stand on. The mere existence of someone who does not fulfill their broken stereotypes is a threat to the stability of their ideas. That is why they rely so heavily on the concept of the "other", so that what they focus on is something that cannot be changed, ie race/gender/sexual orientation/religion. You might have someone who is an absolute saint, but because they are black that makes them lesser. Etc etc. Most of these chuds will grow out of this, just because it cannot coexist with living in the real world. In that sense they just need time and a solid kick in the rear end occasionally. For the others that are hard into it, you can't really stop them because they get off on people trying to stop them. It's their hobby. So basically treat them like you would a bully, ignore them unless they start something, and then correct their action with extreme prejudice. TL;DR: Punch nazis until they grow up
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Apr 30, 2018 23:46
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Most of these chuds will grow out of this, just because it cannot coexist with living in the real world. In that sense they just need time and a solid kick in the rear end occasionally.
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May 1, 2018 00:02
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May 1, 2018 00:06
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:We live in a weird-rear end cultural moment because it doesn't seem like the purple-haired androgynes -- that the alt-right spends so much time wrapped up into knots about -- are going away or becoming smaller in number, right? It's not like gay people went anywhere. Sure, but that person never really existed to begin with. Yes, people like that exist, but the "Ten thousand gendered, cat-eye glasses dragon" that they imagine is a fantasy. In that sense it will never go away because it never existed. I'm an optimist so I would like the believe that them meeting queer people irl will help kill that fantasy, because I have seen it happen before. But, of course, it will never go away totally. A lot of people just don't care, they just want to be angry.
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May 1, 2018 00:10
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https://twitter.com/egavactip/status/991029160461131776
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May 1, 2018 00:11
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i was just making a joke with the 'nazi v fascist' shitpost, i didn't think that was a line anyone still spat out in all seriousness killl all patriots
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May 1, 2018 00:14
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look at the kid's name. i wonder if that's the same name he gave to his jew-hating buddies?
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May 1, 2018 00:17
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Yeah. Peterson is what the Nazis referred to as a "romantic nationalist," an older school of reactionary thought emerging from nostalgia toward 19th century nationalism and empire building. I don't care enough to do a deep dive into his ideology, but is he just drifting towards monarchism/dictatorship like Pat Buchanan? It seems like the logical conclusion to failed paleoconservatism and that's what it sounds like Peterson is pushing.
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May 1, 2018 00:35
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Bot? Troll? Sincere brokebrain? I don't even know anymore.
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May 1, 2018 00:58
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Tias posted:Yeah, my friends freaked the gently caress out and now hate me because I called Peterson a nazi. I guess not hurting conservative feelings is a lot more important than whether they encourage racial hatred, who knew? I thought your friends were like antifascist skinheads or something.
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May 1, 2018 01:04
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dA NYMPHO z0ne
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May 1, 2018 01:06
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im the groyper recommends
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May 1, 2018 01:07
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rudatron posted:The politics of respectability absolutely is not the biggest hurdle, are you insane. The only people who believe it are libs, and libs have historically preferred fascism to socialism. If anything, decorum politics is keepibg then occupied with something other than ledt bashing. Libs are the biggest hurdle, ya dingus.
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May 1, 2018 01:09
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sleeptalker posted:I think incel beliefs mostly form around high school, before income is a direct concern. They definitely demonstrate very stereotypical high school-ish social dynamics, at least. Rodgers Dad blew a big chunk of money on a failed movie. Elliot Rodger did believe money would solve his problems (or it was another entitlement thing). His grand moneymaking schemes included buying a lottery ticket and hoping really hard that he wins and pressuring his mom to marry a rich guy.
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May 1, 2018 01:14
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Azathoth posted:I don't care enough to do a deep dive into his ideology, but is he just drifting towards monarchism/dictatorship like Pat Buchanan? It seems like the logical conclusion to failed paleoconservatism and that's what it sounds like Peterson is pushing. I don't see a ton of indications that that's what he's headed toward, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
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May 1, 2018 01:20
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