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Tony Gonzalez: Antonio Gates: 
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May 3, 2018 16:51
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a neat cape posted:Do you actually think he isn't? Have there been any 1st ballot tight ends? If Tony G doesnt get 1st ballot then theres no way Gates will
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May 3, 2018 16:51
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Grittybeard posted:I was slightly annoyed that the Dallas tweets were talking about how no tight end had been a first ballot hall of famer then talking about how Witten should be the first the year before Tony Gonzalez was eligible, so I'm not going to hate on you at the moment. Tony G will be, and Gates will be as well. As they should be
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May 3, 2018 16:52
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CyberPingu posted:Have there been any 1st ballot tight ends? Not yet, but Tony isn't eligible yet
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May 3, 2018 16:53
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I miss Tony Gonzalez 
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May 3, 2018 16:54
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:That's a stretch. It really isn't. All the "bad" blocking TE's can still hit block a guy on a running play most of the time, they just don't win or hit next level blocks. For example, here's some blocks by an old, bad at blocking TE on running plays: http://www.chargers.com/video/2016/11/11/melvin-gordon-evaluates-antonio-gates-blocking Is Gronk or a great blocking TE like Daniel Graham giving you that much more on these plays as to be worth that much?
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May 3, 2018 16:54
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Huh, I didnt realise that Gates had overtaken Tony G on a lot of stats... I think this is more of a its super hard to be a 1st ballot, especially for a TE.
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May 3, 2018 16:55
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Blocking TE no longer meaningfully exist
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May 3, 2018 16:55
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It's also just loving weird to see a 37 year old TE lumbering around out there and yet both Gates and Gonzo managed it. Like, look at how old and creeky Witten's been the last couple of years and he was 35 last year.
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May 3, 2018 16:56
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I do think all three are no doubt hall of famers even if they don't get in first ballot because of the backlog. Which is pretty cool, we've seen some good tight ends in the last decade or two.
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May 3, 2018 16:57
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CyberPingu posted:Huh, I didnt realise that Gates had overtaken Tony G on a lot of stats... I honestly feel it would be harder as an offensive lineman to make it in on the first ballot, usually because they're largely "invisible", in that they're usually mentioned in negative context if their names do come up regularly (at least in my experience). I mean, Joe Thomas is one of the exceptions, among others.
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May 3, 2018 16:57
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45 new posts?? Did a trade go down???? Oh...we're just arguing about TEs. iospace posted:Tony Gonzalez: Lmaoooooooooo Speaking of TEs...did you guys hear the news? https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/992012099571380224
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May 3, 2018 16:57
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Blocking TE no longer meaningfully exist Chiefs just traded for one like two days ago and the fans rejoiced
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May 3, 2018 16:57
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Blocking TE no longer meaningfully exist They do, they're just guys like Michael Hoomanawanui who catch 10 passes a year so nobody knows who they are unless they have a funny name hehe, Jake Butt.
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May 3, 2018 16:58
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iospace posted:I honestly feel it would be harder as an offensive lineman to make it in on the first ballot, usually because they're largely "invisible", in that they're usually mentioned in negative context if their names do come up regularly (at least in my experience). I mean, Joe Thomas is one of the exceptions, among others. Left tackles usually get their shine, but lol if you're a right tackle or interior lineman
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May 3, 2018 16:58
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Kalli posted:It really isn't. All the "bad" blocking TE's can still hit block a guy on a running play most of the time, they just don't win or hit next level blocks. You cited the example of Brown throwing a fade, which is something he will be called on to do, like every other season. TE's are supposed to block routinely every game even if they're not great at it. So your comparison was very poor. quote:Is Gronk or a great blocking TE like Daniel Graham giving you that much more on these plays as to be worth that much? Emphatically yes. When that TE is capable of blocking as well as a 6th lineman, the offense gains an immense tactical advantage at not tipping it's hand. And that's not even considering how much of a difference in the effectiveness of a play a great downfield blocking TE can make.
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May 3, 2018 16:59
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Also I just wanted an excise earlier to say Brandon Manumaleanu
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May 3, 2018 16:59
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Blocking TE no longer meaningfully exist I know. Witten retired.
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May 3, 2018 17:00
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Kalli posted:It really isn't. All the "bad" blocking TE's can still hit block a guy on a running play most of the time, they just don't win or hit next level blocks. For Kalli and Ross: "Ertz has spoken for years about trying to become a complete tight end. We know he can run and catch, but so far this year, he's shown how far he's come as a blocker. It was Ertz who sprung LeGarrette Blount on his record-setting 68-yard run that set up a critical fourth-quarter touchdown in the Eagles' 26-24 win over the Chargers Sunday."
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May 3, 2018 17:03
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That was actually just the Chargers having a real bad defense
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May 3, 2018 17:06
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gates won't be a 1st ballot because nobody gives a poo poo about the chargers
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May 3, 2018 17:17
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Honestly I'm upset that Michael Hoomanawanui and Brandon Manumaleuna weren't on the Rams roster at the same time
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May 3, 2018 17:19
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:You cited the example of Brown throwing a fade, which is something he will be called on to do, like every other season. TE's are supposed to block routinely every game even if they're not great at it. So your comparison was very poor. I said receiving a fade, and you can sub in any other pass type which requires a tall receiver getting up in a tight window to catch a pass you wouldn't throw to a 5'10 guy. Yes Gronk is a great, game dominating weapon like Antonio Brown, but if he was a worse blocker, little would change. Hell, the Patriots have run the ball more effectively when Gronk has been out then when healthy*. Downfield blocking is also a minimal part of the game that any player not Deion Sanders level of cowardly can do (like look at how often Amendola or Edelman have just slowed a guy down for the needed half second). * slightly cheating, because they run for a higher YPA because defenses don't expect the run, and the Pats probably spend a lot more time running out the clock when Gronk has been healthy. Gumbel2Gumbel posted:For Kalli and Ross: That kind of speaks to my point though. Ertz, a bad blocker, but good receiver worked on his game a little bit and added a small amount of value. Hooray, a nice bonus, not an intrinsically important part of his game. If Ertz suddenly morphed into young Jimmy Graham you'd still take that over Ertz in a millisecond.
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May 3, 2018 17:20
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incompetent posted:gates won't be a 1st ballot because nobody gives a poo poo about the chargers Yeah Tomlinson was a 1st ballot guy because of his time with the jets
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May 3, 2018 17:23
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I miss when Kleinsasser would catch a pass like twice a season.
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May 3, 2018 17:25
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nerve posted:1. Gonzo fixed
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May 3, 2018 17:32
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Kalli posted:I said receiving a fade, and you can sub in any other pass type which requires a tall receiver getting up in a tight window to catch a pass you wouldn't throw to a 5'10 guy. Ertz is a good blocker now
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May 3, 2018 17:33
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a neat cape posted:Yeah Tomlinson was a 1st ballot guy because of his time with the jets Additionally, Brees will be a 1st ballot guy strictly from his time with San Diego imho
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May 3, 2018 17:33
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I will never forget longtime Hall of Fame Patriot Reggie Wayne.
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May 3, 2018 17:35
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weird Asian candy posted:Additionally, Brees will be a 1st ballot guy strictly from his time with San Diego imho His time in San Diego should disqualify him from the hall of fame because of getting benched for a literal dwarf in 2003
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May 3, 2018 17:38
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Blocking TE no longer meaningfully exist Phins just drafted one
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May 3, 2018 17:39
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i don’t think Gates has enjoyed nearly the same reputation throughout his career like Gonzo did to consider him a definite first ballot Hall of Famer. His peak was almost 15 years ago and hasn’t made a Pro Bowl since 2011. coincidentally that was the same year Shannon Sharpe was inducted into the HOF, 8 years after he retired. And he’s the only TE in the hall who started his career after 1979. So there’s already an uphill battle. We are in some new terrority when it comes to elite TEs, so more of them will get consideration than in the past, but, like, the chances of Gates going in on his first ballot is unlikely.
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May 3, 2018 17:39
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I routinely forget that Antonio Gates exists.
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May 3, 2018 17:41
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WHOOPS posted:i don’t think Gates has enjoyed nearly the same reputation throughout his career like Gonzo did to consider him a definite first ballot Hall of Famer. His peak was almost 15 years ago and hasn’t made a Pro Bowl since 2011. Counterpoint...DID YOU KNOW ANTONIO GATES PLAYED BASKETBALL?! a neat cape posted:His time in San Diego should disqualify him from the hall of fame because of getting benched for a literal dwarf in 2003 I'm good with this.
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May 3, 2018 17:42
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I think, like safeties in the mid-late 2000's, we just finally hit an era where a bunch of great TE's all were playing at once. Polamalu / Reed / Earl Thomas will all be hof'ers despite the HoF not inducting any for a long stretch beforehand, and Gronk / Gonzo / Gates / Witten will be HoF'ers as well. Some may wait some years, but that's because of backlogs and the voters huffing ether in some cases.
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May 3, 2018 17:42
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Eifert Posting posted:I routinely forget that Antonio Gates exists. Did you know he played basketball in college?
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May 3, 2018 17:43
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Tight ends who can do both are useful because it keeps defenses guessing about what type of play might be called. It also allows them to get more snaps and thus more yards, and makes it easier to set a faster pace on offense. The position is changing for sure, but putting no value in a tight end being able to block is just silly. Teams still use and value them so I'm not sure why anyone would think they're useless. You can be a great tight end without blocking but if you can block as well that makes you even better and even more valuable to your team. This is all pretty obvious I think
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May 3, 2018 17:44
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Remember when the Broncos hired the Chargers TE coach and started signing former basketball players in a desperate bid to get the next Antonio Gates?
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May 3, 2018 17:45
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Kalli posted:
especially now that there are roughly two linemen per team that can actually block what I'm saying is, move gronk to tackle where he can be an all pro then run a ton of tackle eligible formations mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 17:50 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 17:48
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Hack survives another day. https://twitter.com/MMehtaNYDN/status/992082400489426945
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May 3, 2018 17:50
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