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People keep talking about tonnage cap missions. But the pay would either end up not even enough to keep the lights on once you hit the stage of the game you want to discourage people from fielding all heavies or using any assaults. "Because it's a low ton mission why would we pay as much as when we vomit heavy mechs at you?". Even if they made them reasonably balanced to survive with three spiders and a firestarter. Or it WOULD pay well enough to bother with instead of taking the closest heavy combat contract, but not even the opportunity cost of taking up mechbay space with a light lance would dissuade people screaming it's too forgiving unless you are charged extra to drop with your good robots. Which is probably why 90% of the people suggesting such things are also suggesting adding 18 different taxes on the player, with the occasional "We'll, Maybe we'll pay them an extra fifty bucks for using light mechs. But if they don't? How about we spawn rival mech units for a surprise unwinnable fight! " nessin posted:I think the devs just need to port over the multiplayer system to single player. Give each single player mission a recommended a recommended cost and then reward the player for staying under the limit. Sort of represents the fact that if you go heavy and powerful you're poaching easy missions and getting paid less for it. Like, wow. Do I want to drop with a locust for the chance to get help by a poo poo tier APC. Or do I want to use my real mechs and steal some of that sweet overtonnage rival merc units are throwing at me? Because they got five more Orions than I do on the field, and baiting out salty merc units to steal sounds like some real risk vs reward. Just probably not the kind intended. Section Z fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 20:30
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Control Volume posted:This game definitely could use more hit and run missions. I dont think Ive even had a chance to evacuate since the enemy likes to spawn right on top of the evac zone.
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May 8, 2018 20:32
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I think the relative slowing down of faster units has also affected the long-term viability of lighter units in the game.
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May 8, 2018 20:33
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Like have a mission where you have to kill a base and then 3 heavy lances drop down on first contact in a way where theyll intercept you if you take too long duking it out, but if youre fast you can kill the buildings before getting the gently caress out. Want to take the risk and get salvage? fine bring 4 assaults against 12 enemies plus some turrets. Want the money? Get the hell out. There are a million ways you can make a running battle and this game has none of them yet
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May 8, 2018 20:33
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Gwaihir posted:For minor adjustments across the board, I would suggest: Can't change weights or sizes. You can change damage and heat values, hand out free built-in ammo or add/tweak new mechanics like recoil, but you can't change weight or size, because it breaks stock designs and that's what 99% of the campaign and large parts of skirmish are made out of. Also as a sidenote, buffing the AC5 is ridiculous, that thing is a monster for it's weight and heat. And it's on every other mech. It's probably the one perfectly balanced gun that everything else should revolve around balance wise, because it's the default main gun of 3025. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 20:37 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 20:34
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That's the other thing, if you could actually separate the enemy more mobility would be really helpful on those 'Hey gently caress you the reinforcements were already in the building' missions.
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May 8, 2018 20:36
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There are options here for adding attack penalties by mech size for moving before shooting. I believe TT had those, but these are all set to zero. I'm trying to imagine how these could help light balance.
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May 8, 2018 20:36
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I like this game a bunch but Princess Wasserface's storyline bores me to tears, and I don't like that I seem so restricted in where I can go. Last story mission I've played was the Panzyr one, but I've been tooling around in the same regions because it doesn't make sense paying travel cost to go somewhere far when I know I'll have to return to the Aurigan space if I want to advance the storyline/difficulty/salvage opportunity. My ideal, sandbox version of this game would be for there to be a defined victory condition, and a series of related missions you need to play to beat the game, but between the start and end you can take jobs anywhere within the Periphary for money and salvage. On top of the generic, RNG mission types there would be various mini-campaigns for the different factions; if anyone remembers Escape Velocity then I'm thinking something like that.
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May 8, 2018 20:36
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Mordja posted:I like this game a bunch but Princess Wasserface's storyline bores me to tears, and I don't like that I seem so restricted in where I can go. Last story mission I've played was the Panzyr one, but I've been tooling around in the same regions because it doesn't make sense paying travel cost to go somewhere far when I know I'll have to return to the Aurigan space if I want to advance the storyline/difficulty/salvage opportunity. You are not actually that restricted in where you can go. You can't get into Great House, Canopus, or Directorate territory until you complete the campaign, but all of Taurian space is open to you despite certain plot events. It's a good way to get some rep with Davion and Liao. But yeah, I would love mini-campaigns for the various factions, like there was in MW2: Mercs
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May 8, 2018 20:40
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Given HBS' track record, I'm sure we'll be in for a some good poo poo down the line. If it ends up being like Shadowrun was, at least. The first game, Shadowrun Returns, was pretty okay. More a demonstration of what could be done, than anything. But the followups, Dragonfall & Hong Kong were loving amazing.
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May 8, 2018 20:48
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I don't know why we can't just opt for 4 tanks in lieu of a light mech. Also infantry.
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May 8, 2018 20:50
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Glenn Quebec posted:I don't know why we can't just opt for 4 tanks in lieu of a light mech. Also infantry. Because tanks would be always the best choice forever. Lol have you seen the bullshit amount of missiles they can launch?
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May 8, 2018 20:53
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Where do they store all that ammo?
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May 8, 2018 20:54
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Glenn Quebec posted:I don't know why we can't just opt for 4 tanks in lieu of a light mech. Also infantry. Frankly once you get rifles for all your guys it judy gets boring and the game should incentivize keeping some muskets around.
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May 8, 2018 20:55
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Mordja posted:Where do they store all that ammo? same place where they cram all that graham into golden grahams
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May 8, 2018 20:56
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I have long felt that M Lasers should be 1.5t or 2t and AC/2 should be 1t lighter - but that would require altering a lot of the existing mech loadouts.
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May 8, 2018 20:56
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:There are options here for adding attack penalties by mech size for moving before shooting. I believe TT had those, but these are all set to zero. I'm trying to imagine how these could help light balance. They would make it worse. Assaults don't need to move and fire to do their job. They could just give lights a free yellow move at initiative 1 which doesn't affect evasion. They can still only shoot once per turn, but now they can sprint and then shoot after everybody else has moved, or move and shoot then move again afterwards to get back into cover and avoid some of the return fire. That or add an extra drop slot so you've got your main lance plus a scout which can only be a light (that way there's no opportunity cost for taking one). I don't think there's any way to make a sensible system by just changing up the numbers here and there. At the end of the day a 35 ton mech has so much less firepower than a 90 ton one that you need a LOT of utility to make up the difference when you're already outnumbered.
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May 8, 2018 20:57
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Zore posted:Because tanks would be always the best choice forever. My stubborn choice of taking convoy missions is making my Firestarter jealous of Manticores from a combination of circumstances and location rolls. "You just cored out the back of one of the mech reinforcments with your lasers and MG spam, you don't even have Ace pilot yet. You are the only light mech we keep in the mechbay for a reason" "But my 190 alpha I can't even kill a loving tank  "
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May 8, 2018 20:57
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 I'd just like to remind everyone discussing how we'd like this game to succeed to step back and appreciate how goofy Battletech is and keep that irreverance in your heart. 
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May 8, 2018 20:57
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I want more reason for more diverse drops because it gets really tiring to fight nothing but heavies and assaults at the end.
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May 8, 2018 21:03
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Yardbomb posted:I want more reason for more diverse drops because it gets really tiring to fight nothing but heavies and assaults at the end. So do the mod that changes the mission ratings and go drop 1 and 2 skull missions with a light Lance all day long. Quit trying to force me to live by your weird rear end self mutilating rules vs enjoying myself stomping around and blowing poo poo up with my assaults. Edit: that came out much harsher than it's intended. I just mean some of us don't want to deal with tonnage limits or other self imposed restrictions. I'm enjoying taking 4 and 5 skull missions for a 400 ton slugfest. Riot Carol Danvers fucked around with this message at 21:09 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 21:04
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Can someone give me a good fit for a centurion because I am fed up watching it blowing up and being repaired for days on end all the time.
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May 8, 2018 21:05
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WMain00 posted:Can someone give me a good fit for a centurion because I am fed up watching it blowing up and being repaired for days on end all the time. Put lots of armor on it so it's hard to blow up. Then if you want to fight in close, put an AC20 on it. If you want to snipe, put 30 LRMs on it.
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May 8, 2018 21:06
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WMain00 posted:Can someone give me a good fit for a centurion because I am fed up watching it blowing up and being repaired for days on end all the time. An AC20 with support MLs / SRMS, or just load up the LRMs and stay a mile away. It's only a 50 ton medium so it's not going to be tanking all day, but both builds are effective.
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May 8, 2018 21:06
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WMain00 posted:Can someone give me a good fit for a centurion because I am fed up watching it blowing up and being repaired for days on end all the time. I had some good luck with an AC/10 and 2 SRM4s with as much armor as I could fit on it.
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May 8, 2018 21:10
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Pikey posted:How is the performance for this overall? Want to pick it up but wondering if I should wait for more patches. I've heard a lot of complaints about inconsistent/poor performance even in nice rigs. Did they also add any options or mods to speed things up? It seems like the slow rear end action cam really bogs it down as well Loving the game even though I don't know much about Battletech beyond robotmans and feudalism. Pretty solid turn based tactical combat combined with optimizing robot builds plus Paradox-type events and RPG-lite dialogue choices just works so well. And you can knock down the robotmans and curbstomp them!
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May 8, 2018 21:11
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Zore posted:Because tanks would be always the best choice forever. Me before running into an SLM carrier: "pfft how scary can tanks be" Me after running into an SLM carrier: "jesus christ, ignore the mechs, alpha strike these fuckers on sight"
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May 8, 2018 21:14
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I ran my cent with the Yen-lo-Wang build, it's pretty tanky and great for drawing the enemies attention because the entire left side of the mech is a big shield you can just point at the enemy.
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May 8, 2018 21:15
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It's a shame you can't actually get a hatchet.
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May 8, 2018 21:18
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Astroniomix posted:I ran my cent with the Yen-lo-Wang build, it's pretty tanky and great for drawing the enemies attention because the entire left side of the mech is a big shield you can just point at the enemy. For somewhat similar reasons, I like running 2xML 3xSRM6. All your firepower is in the CT and LT, and you've got a hell of an alpha strike, especially with ++ damage SRMs and called shot
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May 8, 2018 21:18
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Honestly, even outside the Lights issue, something that feels the need to be tweaked to me is the accuracy of indirect fire. As in it needs to be pushed down - Tactics 9 or no, I shouldn't be getting ~50% accuracy on mechs that have full evasion stacks from behind a mountain. Lights would obviously heavily benefit from this, but it'd make the free campaign as a whole far more pleasant. Or, for illustration, a 3.5 star mission spawned a dual Heavy lance (might have been 1-2 heavy Mediums), and 7 of them were carrying LRM racks - pretty sure they were all 10s or higher as well. When the reinforcement lance just sits out of sight pelting whoever you had taking point with missiles it gets incredibly stupid - even in cover or Guarded their armor gets absolutely shredded in a round or two, and it's not like you can hide (given Sensor Lock). And that's not even getting into the massive amounts of stability damage.
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May 8, 2018 21:19
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This game has a lot of issues I'm on my 5 skull mssion with 3 locusts with large lasers and machine guns please help
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May 8, 2018 21:19
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Lord Koth posted:Honestly, even outside the Lights issue, something that feels the need to be tweaked to me is the accuracy of indirect fire. As in it needs to be pushed down - Tactics 9 or no, I shouldn't be getting ~50% accuracy on mechs that have full evasion stacks from behind a mountain. Though nerfing it would hurt you more than the enemy, because lowered accuracy would still leave the enemy with twice as many LRMs to hurl at you in the given scenario. The sort of thing that makes me nervous about prospects of buffing stability because even if you manage to knock down two enemy assaults through buffed stability, they would still have a full assault lance or more upright. Section Z fucked around with this message at 21:28 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 21:21
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Apparently there was some random tiny patch earlier and a dev posted on the forums that they were "preparing Steam for things to come" so it sounds like we might be in for a full patch soon, maybe this week?
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May 8, 2018 21:22
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What I was thinking about for when they go to company scale is that the company has a couple drop ships, but there's multiple missions going on at the same time. Do you really want to put your Highlander in that "Destroy the radar dome" mission when there's also a mission going on to take over the factory guarded by heavy/assaults.
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May 8, 2018 21:28
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Section Z posted:This nerf fit my stupid early playstyle of "I made my Missile Cent a 25 LRM+2 Mlas with Jump jets and high armor" build just so my low skill pilots wouldn't be stuck with 60-70% indirect fire chances after sensor lock, and JJ their way to a direct line with 80-90%. Stripping off parts for more missiles didn't cross my mind again until I was finally ramping up tactics to higher numbers. It really wouldn't, because you're theoretically engaged in direct fire with one of the enemy lances (possibly including your LRM boat), rather than indirect fire. After all the enemy is hurling twice as many LRMs at you regardless, so at most you're taking a nerf to a single mech (and possibly not even then) as opposed to 4+. It would potentially encourage more aggressive play with LRM boats as well, instead of just sitting them behind a mountain, and that's honestly probably a positive thing.
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May 8, 2018 21:32
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Lord Koth posted:Honestly, even outside the Lights issue, something that feels the need to be tweaked to me is the accuracy of indirect fire. As in it needs to be pushed down - Tactics 9 or no, I shouldn't be getting ~50% accuracy on mechs that have full evasion stacks from behind a mountain. There is an easily editable setting in combatgameconstants for indirect accuracy. It's currently at 3
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May 8, 2018 21:33
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Perhaps make evasion pips worth more, but require longer distances of movement to earn them? This is possible to do in the .jsons That could work. Basically anything to make lights harder to hit. Night10194 posted:The other problem, of course, is that they have to balance campaign play against the AI and multiplayer play and I'm pretty sure making well-played Lights almost impossible to hit would be immensely frustrating to play against with a human opponent. Personally I don't think balancing single player and MP is necessary. MP is already balanced through tonnage limits, so if this was just a SP-only thing that would work. OTOH lights running around acting crazy would be hilarious and likely encourage punching and machine guns. Ravenfood posted:Right. In theory, there are mission types that look like they're supposed to be quick-in, then rapid evac missions. Given how valuable salvage is, how the game is set-up, and how you get bonuses for killing off the enemy anyway, there's no reason to do anything but drop with everything and just treat it like a "battle" type instead of a really quick in-and-out. Evacuation missions that give plenty of money but no salvage or bonuses for killing stuff could work. "You get paid to get her out. I don't care what's left when you do, all I care about is getting her out."
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May 8, 2018 21:38
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WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:So do the mod that changes the mission ratings and go drop 1 and 2 skull missions with a light Lance all day long. I genuinely agree. Incidentally I enjoy having a dedicated low-tonnage lance I can bring out to speed up lighter missions in a Global Difficulty modded campaign, whenever I'm feeling tired out by big chunk lumber town. I'm going to keep posting this here for people who keep wishing there were a version of Battletech where lights and mediums were relevant forever. Removed Story Difficulty Boosts and [Added] Planetary Difficult Variety  The only caveat is that you need to go to SimGameConstants.json and change the Faction Reputation effects on Max Contract Difficulty. The vanilla values were designed assuming you have global difficulty boosts ramping things up. So you need to change it so that at all levels of faction reputation are positive boosts, even if you're loathed (so you can accept any contracts at all at that level). Note this is a major oversight that isn't mentioned in the mod page, though the other tweaks to SimGameConstant.json mentioned on the page are also recommended. pre:"LoathedMaxContractDifficulty" : 1, "HatedMaxContractDifficulty" : 2, "DislikedMaxContractDifficulty" : 3, "IndifferentMaxContractDifficulty" : 4, "LikedMaxContractDifficulty" : 6, "FriendlyMaxContractDifficulty" : 8, "AlliedMaxContractDifficulty" : 10, If Lights were 50 tons, Mediums 60, Heavies 70, and Assaults 80 we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. Runa fucked around with this message at 21:45 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 21:40
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Evacuation missions that give plenty of money but no salvage or bonuses for killing stuff could work. "You get paid to get her out. I don't care what's left when you do, all I care about is getting her out." And maybe they start spawning more vehicles or heavy turrets come online after X turns or something. I don't know I can see it both ways, I like lights being weaker in general but yeah it would be nice if they had more of a role without silly recon "run here" missions or whatever.
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