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Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT

Power of Pecota posted:

Chaos Card for Hush phase 2 is a godsend - I honestly don't remember if that's what did it for me, a lot of the lovely grindy game break accomplishments mushed together in my mind

You can actually kill both phases with one Chaos card. Just run towards Phase 1 from below and throw the card upwards.

Inzombiac posted:

I won't play Keeper unless it is with the swallowed penny.

gently caress Keeper.

With all the extra trinkets and items characters start with, it's weird that Keeper doesn't get Swallowed Penny.

I wonder if there's a mod for that.

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Nighthand
Nov 4, 2009

what horror the gas

I just had a surprisingly awesome synergy I'd never have expected. I had E.Coli, so bumping into things turned them to turds, and I got Taurus, which does that whole gradual speed boost until you turn invulnerable thing... but I had high enough base speed that it triggered immediately upon entering a room, so I just rubbed my face against everything and cleared the room before the invulnerability ran out.

It meant it was pretty easy to get that "It's the key" achievement, too.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Wugga posted:

You can actually kill both phases with one Chaos card. Just run towards Phase 1 from below and throw the card upwards.


With all the extra trinkets and items characters start with, it's weird that Keeper doesn't get Swallowed Penny.

I wonder if there's a mod for that.

He does get Wooden Nickel which is okay. Just use it every time you can and then sweep the level before you move on.

However it is not really viable without a bunch of battery support.

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer
I don't like fighting games that much, but I might buy this Blade Strangers game if it's not $60.

https://twitter.com/nicalis/status/994298523809005568

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Is it just me or is Technology Zero drat near useless unless you already have a broken setup?

END CHEMTRAILS NOW
Apr 16, 2005

Pillbug

dis astranagant posted:

Is it just me or is Technology Zero drat near useless unless you already have a broken setup?
Tech Zero is pretty nice if you've got something that spreads out your tears, like tammy's head, quad shot, tiny planet, the wiz, sprinkler, lachryphagy, rubber cement, etc.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


END CHEMTRAILS NOW posted:

Tech Zero is pretty nice if you've got something that spreads out your tears, like tammy's head, quad shot, tiny planet, the wiz, sprinkler, lachryphagy, rubber cement, etc.

Tech Zero, Wiz, Jacob's Ladder and Soymilk was one of the weirdest but also most fun runs I've had recently.
It was like firing a really weak laser rifle across a whole room.

that ivy guy
May 20, 2015

The easiest synergy to accomplish with Tech Zero is any form of piercing shots. The laser basically just augments your damage at that point.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


The Forgotten synergizes really well with all the laser items.
Some of them give him a laser cloak on swing or a laser tether of throw.

g0lbez
Dec 25, 2004

and then you'll beg
The Forgotten's biggest crime so far is not having a synergy with Death's Touch. Even just sharing the sprite from getting Mom's Knife would've been cool but whatever this is still the best character by far

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer

g0lbez posted:

The Forgotten's biggest crime so far is not having a synergy with Death's Touch. Even just sharing the sprite from getting Mom's Knife would've been cool but whatever this is still the best character by far

It is weird that he doesn't swing a scythe.

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

Wugga posted:

With all the extra trinkets and items characters start with, it's weird that Keeper doesn't get Swallowed Penny.

I wonder if there's a mod for that.

doesn't seem to be one, but I imagine it'd be really quick to make one

Color Printer
May 9, 2011

You get used to it. I don't
even see the code. All I see
is Ipecac, Scapular, Polyphemus...


So I just decided to leave all the Hush/Delirium stuff till after I do all the other poo poo (unless I get a ludicrously good setup) because earlier this morning I had a really great Forgotten run (my first Forgotten run, in fact) and then I decided to ruin it by going to fight Hush and losing. That really sucked a lot

Also Chocolate Milk is really good with The Forgotten (not so much for The Soul, though, unless you like chocolate milk). The bone gets bigger as you charge up. Just go around thwacking everything.

Edit: Also I had a Dr. Fetus Keeper run ended in the depths by black worms that charge. Did you know that in depths there are black worms that leave creep and can suddenly charge forward with little warning? I did not know this, and I paid dearly for it. I was extremely unhappy.

Color Printer fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 10, 2018

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


The Switch version still doesn't have a quick restart button, right?

That's kind of a deal killer for me.

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
I just got 3 Angel Rooms without a single item. First one had six pennies and the last two both just had a single angel heart. I hate this game sometimes.

Malcolm Excellent
May 20, 2007

Buglord
If I ever have something that let's me hold two cards and spawn more cards you better believe I'm about to cheese two chaos cards and wipe out hush and delirium.

g0lbez
Dec 25, 2004

and then you'll beg
Do not pass up on antigravity tears if you're playing as the forgotten holy poo poo

Color Printer
May 9, 2011

You get used to it. I don't
even see the code. All I see
is Ipecac, Scapular, Polyphemus...


Oh man I didn't realize Forgotten could charge his weapon to throw it, you can't do that after you pick up Chocolate Milk. It's okay though because it packs a wallop when you charge it with milk

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Color Printer posted:

Oh man I didn't realize Forgotten could charge his weapon to throw it, you can't do that after you pick up Chocolate Milk. It's okay though because it packs a wallop when you charge it with milk

The throw is weak and awkward enough that you're usually better off popping out the soul when you need a ranged attack.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Color Printer posted:

Oh man I didn't realize Forgotten could charge his weapon to throw it, you can't do that after you pick up Chocolate Milk. It's okay though because it packs a wallop when you charge it with milk

There's a ton of stuff that chages the throw as well.

Color Printer
May 9, 2011

You get used to it. I don't
even see the code. All I see
is Ipecac, Scapular, Polyphemus...


ah yes one of the universal constants of isaac is still in play: if you have low speed and no piercing attacks, the mask of infamy is still one of the worst bosses in the entire loving game

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe
I genuinely find it had to play as anyone other than the Forgotten now, he's so much freaking fun.

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes
I'm genuinely surprised none of the workshop mods seems to be 'make bosses suck less' unless I just completely missed it when I went through a few pages of the most popular mods looking for fun stuff

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Color Printer posted:

ah yes one of the universal constants of isaac is still in play: if you have low speed and no piercing attacks, the mask of infamy is still one of the worst bosses in the entire loving game

It would be a bit better if he swallowed bombs like some of the worm bosses.

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe

flatluigi posted:

I'm genuinely surprised none of the workshop mods seems to be 'make bosses suck less' unless I just completely missed it when I went through a few pages of the most popular mods looking for fun stuff

If I remember right it's not that easy to modify existing bosses. A lot of the more complicated mods have to do some convoluted things to get good results. Here's a tweak for the two most infamous bosses, though:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1376065137

And here's one that rebalances HP values for nearly everything, mostly lowering them:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1328654492

Pigbuster fucked around with this message at 03:43 on May 11, 2018

Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT

Malcolm Excellent posted:

If I ever have something that let's me hold two cards and spawn more cards you better believe I'm about to cheese two chaos cards and wipe out hush and delirium.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but uhh.

Delirium is immune to Chaos.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Does anyone know how to unlock the Forgotten with Cheat Engine? I don't want to go through the hassle.

Psychedelicatessen
Feb 17, 2012

Jedit posted:

Does anyone know how to unlock the Forgotten with Cheat Engine? I don't want to go through the hassle.

Find an item room and force pyromaniac to spawn

END CHEMTRAILS NOW
Apr 16, 2005

Pillbug

Jedit posted:

Does anyone know how to unlock the Forgotten with Cheat Engine? I don't want to go through the hassle.
You don't need cheat engine. Enable mods -> Go to the dark room -> hit ~ to bring down the console -> type "g mom's shovel" (without quotes) -> use mom's shovel on one of the dirt patches.

On a related note, I did some testing recently. If you use mom's shovel on the dirt patches in the dark room after The Forgotten is already unlocked, you get a chest (which automatically contains an item). The interesting thing is that We Need To Go Deeper does the same thing, and I suspect an Ehwaz rune would as well. So, it makes me wonder: If you haven't unlocked The Forgotten, can you unlock him using We Need To Go Deeper or Ehwaz, without having to bother with the whole Mom's Shovel quest?

Malcolm Excellent
May 20, 2007

Buglord

Wugga posted:

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but uhh.

Delirium is immune to Chaos.

Awwww shiiiiiit. I guess I'll just figure out how to cheese him with telepathic brimstone bombs.

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

END CHEMTRAILS NOW posted:

On a related note, I did some testing recently. If you use mom's shovel on the dirt patches in the dark room after The Forgotten is already unlocked, you get a chest (which automatically contains an item). The interesting thing is that We Need To Go Deeper does the same thing, and I suspect an Ehwaz rune would as well. So, it makes me wonder: If you haven't unlocked The Forgotten, can you unlock him using We Need To Go Deeper or Ehwaz, without having to bother with the whole Mom's Shovel quest?
According to the wiki, you specifically have to use Mom's Shovel the first time, but every time after that WNTGD/Ehwaz/Shovel all do the same thing and crap out the guaranteed item chest.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

END CHEMTRAILS NOW posted:

You don't need cheat engine. Enable mods -> Go to the dark room -> hit ~ to bring down the console -> type "g mom's shovel" (without quotes) -> use mom's shovel on one of the dirt patches.

Thanks, but I have mods turned on and I can't use the console.

that ivy guy
May 20, 2015

Jedit posted:

Thanks, but I have mods turned on and I can't use the console.

You need at least one actual mod installed, with mods enabled, to allow the debug console iirc.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

that ivy guy posted:

You need at least one actual mod installed, with mods enabled, to allow the debug console iirc.

I know, and I do. I'm not sure what the problem is or how to fix it.

END CHEMTRAILS NOW
Apr 16, 2005

Pillbug

Jedit posted:

I know, and I do. I'm not sure what the problem is or how to fix it.
Are you trying to open the console during a run or from the menu? You have to be in a run (ie, after choosing a character and seeing the first room) in order for the console to work. If that's not the problem, maybe there's an issue with your keyboard. I can't think of any other reason it wouldn't show up.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

END CHEMTRAILS NOW posted:

Are you trying to open the console during a run or from the menu? You have to be in a run (ie, after choosing a character and seeing the first room) in order for the console to work. If that's not the problem, maybe there's an issue with your keyboard. I can't think of any other reason it wouldn't show up.

In a run. And there's no problem with my keyboard. ````

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

quote:

Game changes
Fixed many missing/outdated features from the Linux version

Fixed the Forgotten's score value fluctuating when switching between forms

Fixed the Forgotten's ranged attack sometimes firing backwards with controllers

Fixed Flat Stone causing Ipecac shots to silently explode with no visible explosion effect

Fixed 3 Dollar Bill not increasing the size of the player's tears when granting the Proptosis effect

Fixed being able to keep the Whore of Babylon state when switching from the Forgotten's soul form to his skeleton form

Fixed being able to go to the Cathedral while holding Mom's Shovel

Fixed Dr. Fetus and Epic Fetus being launched from the wrong position when thrown by the Forgotten right after a pickup animation

Fixed Mega Blast not requiring Mega Satan to be defeated with Apollyon and the Forgotten

Fixed a crash occurring when running the game after subscribing or unsubscribing from a mod

Fixed big attack flies spawned by Duke of Flies orbiting him instead of chasing the player

Fixed first spawned Duke of Flies in a room hogging all the orbital flies spawned by other Dukes in the room

Mom's Shovel now counts towards the Mom transformation

Familiars will now be teleported to the player's position when entering the Mom fight

The Forgotten’s body will now be teleported to the player’s position when entering a fight against Gurdy, Mom or Mom’s Heart as the Forgotten’s soul

Fixed bombs sometimes being thrown up in the air when dropped (could happen after a Forgotten + Dr Fetus run)

Fixed a previous Big Horn fix causing his Delirium form to permanently drop Delirium's HP to a very low amount, making him very easy to kill

Fixed a previous change causing explosions from permanently charmed enemies to damage the player

Fixed pressure plates spawning multiple rewards on top of each other in the exact same position

Fixed Hematemesis removing all red hearts with the Forgotten instead of leaving a single full red heart

Fixed Placebo not triggering Acid Baby and Spewer like using a pill normally would

Fixed Flat Stone not being in any item pool

Fixed the charge bar for Maw of the Void not being positioned properly when the player's size changes

Locust of War will now refrain from targeting or colliding with enemies for 2 seconds after entering a room

The Thing can no longer spawn as a regenerating red champion as that makes it near impossible to kill with some loadouts

Added a charge bar to Lil Spewer

Losing a bone heart to damage will now reduce the Forgotten's devil deal chance

Fixed the Forgotten's charge bar being inaccurate with Monstro's Lung

Fixed Crow Heart causing the player to lose their devil deal chance even if the damaged red hearts were inside a bone heart

Added unique Forgotten costumes for Conjoined, Seraphim, Leviathan, Spider Baby (transformation), Bob (transformation), Capricorn, Ludovico, Toothpicks, Tough Love, Serpent's Kiss, Infestation 2, Spirit of the Night, Epiphora, Epic Fetus, Pupula Duplex

Fixed a previous change causing Error rooms to always use the same layout

Fixed the Coupon being able to drop from Greed and shopkeepers without actually being unlocked

Fixed E. Coli poops not being destructible by lasers

Fixed charmed enemies sometimes getting stuck trying to target invulnerable enemies

Fixed charmed enemies not being able to hit certain enemies (such as portals and Widow)

Fixed portals always being replaced with Greed in Greed Mode before "The Gate is Open" is unlocked

Ministros will now be replaced with Hoppers instead of Leapers in Hard Mode before "The Gate is Open" is unlocked

Added skin color alts to Immaculate Conception

Slightly improved item sprite for the Belt

Added extra animations to the Gemini familiar

Picking up Black Candle under Curse of Darkness will now make the darkness fade away instead of immediately lighting the room up

Fixed coop babies taking more red hearts from the player than intended when the player has bone hearts

Brittle Bones is now a simple minor Tears Up when picked up by Keeper or the Lost and will no longer kill Keeper

Added stage HP to Blisters to make them less tanky when encountered on early floors

Fixed a Black Market layout having the wrong type of buttons

Fixed Krampus sometimes not roaring before an attack

Krampus will now do a short dash towards the player before doing a spinning Brimstone attack (this should act as a clearer tell and prevent him from doing that attack when next to a wall)

Fixed softlock caused by teleporting to the Error room when holding the Broken Shovel in Depths 2

Fixed some glitchy behavior with Delirium's Matriarch form

Fixed being able to get black hearts from Stoneys by touching them while having Virus/Serpent's Kiss

Fixed bomb rock explosions not being symmetrical, causing some nearby rocks to survive the explosion despite being close enough

Fixed a rare crash caused by the Matriarch when transitioning to her second phase

Fixed the Lamb being able to move during its rotating Brimstone attack before the beams have fully disappeared

The Lamb will no longer do its rotating Brimstone attack when close to a wall

Epiphora and Dead Eye now synergize with the Forgotten

Fixed a previous change causing fires from Fire Mind and Hot Bombs to deal much less damage than intended

Fixed several AB+ Double Trouble boss layouts being picked on the wrong floors

Fixed Double Trouble allowing the player to encounter bosses that haven't been unlocked yet

Fixed a softlock caused by catching the Haunt's Lil Haunts with Friendly Ball

Fixed a softlock caused by using Delirious in Mega Satan's room before triggering his boss fight

Fixed bosses spawned by Delirious playing the boss victory jingle on death in some cases

Fixed Ultra Greed getting stuck trying to dash against item pedestals or the player in Gnawed Leaf form

Fixed bone hearts causing ??? to become invulnerable in certain conditions

Fixed Jera, D20 and other similar items affecting pickups that have already been picked up and are playing their disappearing animation

Fixed a previous fix causing Eden's hair to always be the first variant

Eden's Blessings are now limited to a maximum of 10 to prevent potential crashes (please break the game responsibly)

Adjusted the contents of Pandora's Box in Greed Mode

Fixed a bug causing battery charge to be duplicated with the Schoolbag

Fixed Pause not disabling itself when the player loses it or swaps it with another item

Fixed Abaddon and Brittle Bones not removing the Forgotten's red hearts if picked up when in soul form

Fixed a glitch with Glowing Hourglass causing the Forgotten's soul to die upon rewinding

Fixed Polyphemus having a wrong green skin variant

Fixed Number One having an outdated white skin variant

Fixed Seraphim transformation costume not supporting skin variants

Fixed Lilith not starting with Cambion Conception before unlocking it

Fixed Dr. Fetus and Epic Fetus not firing with the Forgotten when held between more than two rooms

Fixed Dr. Fetus with the Forgotten sometimes causing bombs to be invisible

Fixed Jumper Cables not unlocking if AAA Battery or Watch Battery were picked up last

Fixed a previous change causing invisible headless enemies (such as Pacers and Gushers) to spawn from enemies killed during their spawn animation

Debug console changes
Fixed Alt Gr sometimes causing the left Ctrl key to get stuck in the console (Windows fix only for now, need to confirm Linux and OSX have this issue as well)
Modding changes
Added missing sound enums

Fixed a previous change preventing modded tears from changing their sprite scale from a Lua callback

Death's Heads and Stoneys can now be placed alone in rooms with pressure plates

Added a "costumeSuffix" parameter to players.xml to specify a special costumes folder per character (for instance a custom character with costumesSuffix="test" will attempt to load costume spritesheets from resources/gfx/costumes_test instead of resources/gfx/costumes)

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer
Locust of War change is awesome. Wonder if it applies to the red exploding fly spawned by the mini Harbinger also?

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

LifeLynx posted:

Locust of War change is awesome. Wonder if it applies to the red exploding fly spawned by the mini Harbinger also?

What was the problem with it? Did it immediately kill explosive flies next to you when entering the room?

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Jibo
May 22, 2007

Bear Witness
College Slice
The problem was that the red fly would fly right at an enemy if it was close enough so enemies next to the door would get blowed up before you would have a chance to get out of the way.

I feel like they should just get it over with and make it so their explosion doesn't hurt you.

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