|
Cap effectively chooses exile over dethroning Iron Man and the military-industrial complex which he leads as part of a presumed triumvirate (the other two being US Gov as represented by Secretary Ross and the Illuminati dudes). Rather than attempt to set right what went wrong, about half the Avengers distance themselves from Stark personally while remaining "on call" if it's every reeeeaaally important.
Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 18, 2018 |
#
?
May 18, 2018 00:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 23:13 |
|
|
In The Avengers 2012, 'conventional' military forces are represented via SHIELD as well as the police and firemen who respond to the Chitauri attack, along with (IIRC?) National Guard units. By Age of Ultron these 'normal' elements have been reduced to playing cavalry when needed and otherwise keeping a respectful distance from the Avengers' dustups in Seoul, Sokovia, etc. By Infinity War, there is literally no mention of what the US Military, police or SHIELD might be doing in response to Thanos' attack. The US Government has gone from being an important ally/potential threat to a nonentity. The only glimpse we get of what "the normal world" is doing is a shot of a TV Report telling everyone that (gasp) Tony Stark has gone missing.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 00:42
|
|
|
Why did you post an image of an empty background?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 00:48
|
|
|
Harime Nui posted:In The Avengers 2012, 'conventional' military forces are represented via SHIELD as well as the police and firemen who respond to the Chitauri attack, along with (IIRC?) National Guard units. By Age of Ultron these 'normal' elements have been reduced to playing cavalry when needed and otherwise keeping a respectful distance from the Avengers' dustups in Seoul, Sokovia, etc. By Infinity War, there is literally no mention of what the US Military, police or SHIELD might be doing in response to Thanos' attack. The US Government has gone from being an important ally/potential threat to a nonentity. The only glimpse we get of what "the normal world" is doing is a shot of a TV Report telling everyone that (gasp) Tony Stark has gone missing. Wasn't governmental oversight the whole driving conflict in Civil War? That said, actual military capability seems to have completely fallen by the wayside as the power of both the heroes and the villains has increasingly outstripped anything conventional. Could you imagine the US military being able to do anything to Thanos' army, even if they'd attacked its territory? SHIELD seems to have collapsed after Winter Soldier for turning out to be full of nazis.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 00:52
|
|
|
Bucky kills a shitload of putties with a SAW from the 1990s, probably chambered for 5.56 (NATO standard) ammunition. The putties in Suicide Squad were literally tougher. Thanos and his mooks cap out at like, knocking over a brownstone if they're angry. That's pretty impressive but like, a tank shell to the chest would probably still send Stonecarver(?) reeling.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 00:59
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:Wasn't governmental oversight the whole driving conflict in Civil War? That said, actual military capability seems to have completely fallen by the wayside as the power of both the heroes and the villains has increasingly outstripped anything conventional. Could you imagine the US military being able to do anything to Thanos' army, even if they'd attacked its territory? Also, Age of Ultron has its conflicts taking place in South Africa, South Korea, and Sokovia, so I'm not sure what the US military is meant to be doing here at all, let alone on mere minutes' notice. In Infinity War, the Wheel in the Sky is only in New York City for a few minutes before it's never seen again on Earth, and the only other conflict on our planet is in Wakanda, which no non-Wakandans outside of Cap even knows how to enter. ricdesi fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:00
|
|
|
A subplot about “our troops” being the real superheros sounds nearly unbareable in a movie that already has like 60 characters. Just assume they shot some aliens offscreen
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:07
|
|
|
You know the USA literally has like a huge military presence in Central Europe and the Sea of Japan/Korean peninsula, right? A US military response could have been effectively over Sokovia or Seoul in minutes. Also if everyone really still thinks Wakanda is a jungle with a few fifth-world villages (although the ending of BP implied T'Challa was going to disabuse everyone of that notion) and it's the place where Thanos sends a bunch of interstellar craft you'd kind of expect a full-on airstrike. But my point isn't tactical realism. It's that the 'conventional' authorities Stark spends a lot of time bandying with and ultimately joins/merges with in Civil War simply no longer matter. NATO's hegemony has been replaced with the privatized forces of Starktech. Nick Fury took his pension and Colby Smoulders is out of a job, RIP. And the people of earths' reaction is that when Iron Man isn't around, everybody's like "where's Iron Man!?" Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 01:10 on May 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:08
|
|
|
Harime Nui posted:Also if everyone really still thinks Wakanda is a jungle with a few fifth-world villages (although the ending of BP implied T'Challa was going to disabuse everyone of that notion) and it's the place where Thanos sends a bunch of interstellar craft you'd kind of expect a full-on airstrike. But where, though? Cap has to point out exactly how to find and enter Wakanda when they head there, and he's a little too occupied to instruct the US government (that he is still a fugitive from) how to do the same. Harime Nui posted:It's that the 'conventional' authorities Stark spends a lot of time bandying with and ultimately joins/merges with in Civil War simply no longer matter. NATO's hegemony has been replaced with the privatized forces of Starktech. Tony Stark wasn't joining the US military, or NATO. He was essentially wrapping executive decisions on Avenger action overseas under the United Nations. In Homecoming, we see him working with the FBI to (attempt to) stop Adrian Toomes's weapons sale to Mac Gargan until Peter gets tangled in it, but as evidenced by Infinity War, some threats are so instantaneous that he's not going to bother waiting for the go-ahead to at least stall for time, if not try and deal with the threat. Harime Nui posted:And the people of earths' reaction is that when Iron Man isn't around, everybody's like "where's Iron Man!?" If your planet's most famous superhero jumped onto a spaceship and the spaceship vanished (with his usual points of contact within and without the US government -- Rhodey, Ross, the Department of Damage Control, Pepper, etc. -- not hearing from him), wouldn't you ask the same thing? ricdesi fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:17
|
|
|
Yeah I mean the whole impetus for the Avenger initiative is Nick Fury’s prescience about a looming threat that Earth’s forces circa 2008 would not be able to handle. That’s kinda the basic premise for the entire franchise...is there more to your point than just that observation that I’m missing?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
Colonel Whitey posted:Yeah I mean the whole impetus for the Avenger initiative is Nick Fury’s prescience about a looming threat that Earth’s forces circa 2008 would not be able to handle. That’s kinda the basic premise for the entire franchise...is there more to your point than just that observation that I’m missing? Actually, come to think of it, I wonder if this will be playing into Captain Marvel's plot at all? Especially with Ronan and Korath running around (and Coulson at Nick Fury's side), I get the feeling whatever goes down there is what gets him to start keeping an eye on any outlying activity that could help in the fight against something that big or bigger.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:28
|
|
|
I don't exactly remember how Thanos' troop carriers full of Cavity Creeps get to Wakanda because at that point I was 2.8 IPAs in and kinda bored but: presumably, they had to pass through the atmosphere in order to land. Presumably, to not crash into the earth and obliterate themselves/everything they had to slow down before doing so. Also presumably after the ringcraft's appearance in New York every available eye would be scanning the skies for a second assault----so once you see where Thanos's forces are inbound you plot a trajectory and you're like, "looks like they're coming down over this particular patch of uninhabited jungle in Wakanda," and General Ripper should be like "cool, drop like a quarter of our IBMs on that sucker, please." Anyway, the point is that those shadowy Illuminati guys from Avengers 2012 were exactly right to try and drop a nuke on Tony Stark's head. They undoubtedly knew it was their one shot at preserving hegemony before it passed from their conventional military force to Tony Stark's candy-colored infinity power generators. As any student of history should be able to tell you, formal hierarchies of power mean jack squat to the hierarchy of actual power. As he can go places and do things conventional military just can't (for no real good reason but let's go with it) Stark effectively becomes the 'protector,' and de facto Commander in Chief of Earth. He may allow the President, the Illuminati and whoever else to continue existing but as with the historical triumvirate of Caesar/Antony/Lepidus, it's kind of a sham when one guy has all the muscle.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:30
|
|
|
Ebony Maw was the best part of the Black Order and the only one who appeared to have a name, competence, or personality. It's a shame he got killed so early.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Ebony Maw was the best part of the Black Order and the only one who appeared to have a name, competence, or personality. It's a shame he got killed so early. Like I said in the BSS thread, I could watch an entire movie of everyone just fighting him. I loved that dude.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:41
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Ebony Maw was the best part of the Black Order and the only one who appeared to have a name, competence, or personality. It's a shame he got killed so early. Couldn't agree more. Would have loved to see everybody survive the trip to Titan and have them duke it out there or something.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 01:49
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:“The avengers” don’t really even seem like much of a thing at this point in the story. Only Spider-Man seems really tied into it as an organization. Very few of the important characters seem to be acting as members of avengers. Stark isn’t drax’s boss or anything. The civil war villain successfully destroyed the avengers.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 02:02
|
|
|
ricdesi posted:Also, Age of Ultron has its conflicts taking place in South Africa, South Korea, and Sokovia, so I'm not sure what the US military is meant to be doing here at all, let alone on mere minutes' notice. In Infinity War, the Wheel in the Sky is only in New York City for a few minutes before it's never seen again on Earth, and the only other conflict on our planet is in Wakanda, which no non-Wakandans outside of Cap even knows how to enter. South Korea and all of Eastern Europe are still occupied by the US military, what world do you live in
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 02:12
|
|
|
Billzasilver posted:The civil war villain successfully destroyed the avengers. Zemo doesn't get much in the way of villain love, but he sure paved the way for the snappening.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 02:33
|
|
|
DeimosRising posted:South Korea and all of Eastern Europe are still occupied by the US military, what world do you live in Twist and bend reality to defend the MCU haha
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 02:52
|
|
|
New York was attacked by the same force as from Avengers 1, and Iron Man went missing. The generals were discussing a lot of things with War Machine, (short hologram general Ross was really funny, by the way) but it’s safe to assume they were prepping the same nukes as before.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 02:55
|
|
|
DeimosRising posted:South Korea and all of Eastern Europe are still occupied by the US military, what world do you live in Of course, but given both conflicts are over in a matter of minutes, with the Seoul situation zipping across highways and through the bus and train system, and the Sokovia one involving its capital city being lifted into the sky, the response on the former may not be fast enough or be able to track the situation correctly, and the response on the latter... well, what is the military gonna do about a city being colony dropped? Maybe nuke it, but there's probably a handful of phone calls that need to be made before the US can just straight up nuke almost-Russia.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 02:56
|
|
|
when I rewatched Civil War the other day I realized how shamelessly they just jammed two movies together and pushed it out the door. both movies are good but it really should have been two movies
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
No, the President doesn’t need to make phone calls to drop a nuke. (We’re doomed)
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
precision posted:when I rewatched Civil War the other day I realized how shamelessly they just jammed two movies together and pushed it out the door. both movies are good but it really should have been two movies I didn't bother watching it until a couple of months ago and yeah this struck me right away. (except the part about both movies being good. They were ok, better than Avengers 1 or 2 but that's not saying much)
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 03:32
|
|
|
sponges posted:No, the President doesn’t need to make phone calls to drop a nuke. He does if he doesn't want actual-Russia to drop nukes back.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 03:33
|
|
|
has anyone mentioned how thanos most assuredly killed waay more than half the people on any given planet?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 03:37
|
|
|
ricdesi posted:He does if he doesn't want actual-Russia to drop nukes back. That is beside the point. The protocol for using nuclear weapons doesn’t reqiure phone calls. In your last few posts you’ve demonstrated an utter lack of understanding of US foreign policy. I know the real world is boring in comparison to Iron Man fighting Thanos, but brush up son!
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 03:46
|
|
|
Alien Invasion movies don't live and die by tactical realism. Battle L.A. is a pretty effective war movie and its posited scenario is absolutely retarded---but that's not important. The point is not that earth's governments are useless but that they are hardly given a mention. They've been pushed out of the picture. Earth's protector is Tony Stark. This fact is universally acknowledged wherever Stark Products are sold, hence the widespread panic when he goes missing. He is, virtually, the dictator of earth. Thanos acknowledges him as such and encourages him to embrace it. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 04:13 on May 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:09
|
|
|
I rewatched Thor Ragnarok today. The movie's super happy tone becomes kind of bittersweet when you consider Infinity War.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:10
|
|
|
Covok posted:I rewatched Thor Ragnarok today. Zero narrative cohesion. Zero consistent tone.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:12
|
|
|
Harime Nui posted:Alien Invasion movies don't live and die by tactical realism. Battle L.A. is a pretty effective war movie and its posited scenario is absolutely retarded---but that's not important. The point is not that earth's governments are useless but that they are hardly given a mention. They've been pushed out of the picture. Absolutely, but that makes recognizing the capacity of the US to deploy enormous man/firepower in SK and the former Soviet Bloc within minutes or hours even more important. Otherwise you’re left like ricdesi, unable to read the scenario because you don’t even realize it’s weird for them to be absent
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:14
|
|
|
Elfgames posted:has anyone mentioned how thanos most assuredly killed waay more than half the people on any given planet? Yeah, if the only real metric is "half the universe" without getting any more granular, odds are good that some planets were entirely wiped out. Now granted, the Mind Stone may have the capacity to get more detailed than that, and make it "half of each world in the universe", but we don't know one way or the other. sponges posted:The protocol for using nuclear weapons doesn’t reqiure phone calls. I didn't say protocol for using nuclear weapons requires phone calls. I'm saying using nuclear weapons in the immediate vicinity of another nuclear power who may have reason to fire back without communicating intent first requires phone calls. To that other country. To, you know, avoid that pesky "mutually assured destruction" thing. So quick to jump on any little thing. Take a breath before you hyperventilate.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:15
|
|
|
Arrhythmia posted:Well, settle it. Does he experience you? Qualia fucked around with this message at 04:32 on May 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:17
|
|
|
ricdesi posted:Yeah, if the only real metric is "half the universe" without getting any more granular, odds are good that some planets were entirely wiped out. Now granted, the Mind Stone may have the capacity to get more detailed than that, and make it "half of each world in the universe", but we don't know one way or the other. What childlike naïveté. Your love of the MCU is revealing a lot about you,chum.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:18
|
|
|
Arrhythmia posted:I'd like it on record that I'm not hatewatching this film, as, God willing, I will never watch another POS marvel film. I lied I watched The Incredible Hulk the other day. It was about the military hunting down a poor dude because he wasn't making them enough profit and hell, I liked it.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:18
|
|
|
sponges posted:Zero narrative cohesion. Zero consistent tone. It was a different movie. They can have different tones. If the entire franchise had the same tone, it would suck balls and be more boring than watching a white heterosexual couple having sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:19
|
|
|
sponges posted:What childlike naïveté. Your love of the MCU is revealing a lot about you,chum. Sick burn, bro.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:19
|
|
|
ricdesi posted:So quick to jump on any little thing. Take a breath before you hyperventilate. This has got to be a clever callback to something someone said about you, right?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:19
|
|
|
Covok posted:It was a different movie. They can have different tones. If the entire franchise had the same tone, it would suck balls and be more boring than watching a white heterosexual couple having sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation. On the other hand, the lighthearted tone of GotG and Ragnorak (which have the same characters as IW) kinda undercuts the drama in the more ‘serious’ Marvel films. You have the same dopey comedic Star Lord awkwardly inserted into IW. It’s a tonal mess.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 23:13 |
|
|
Arrhythmia posted:I lied I watched The Incredible Hulk the other day. It was about the military hunting down a poor dude because he wasn't making them enough profit and hell, I liked it. I might go so far as to say the first five Marvel films (Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, Captain America: The First Avenger, Iron Man II, and Thor) clearly take the larger degree of inspiration from Marvel's Ultimate Universe, the sadly short-lived imprint of a completely rebooted Marvel Universe notable for setting its grimdark levels to "retardered." There are hints that Asgard is being set up as a more menacing, almost ominous otherworldly kind of force. Stark is noticeably more sociopathic. We first see a Captain America-style "super soldier" deployed as a weapon against our hero The Hulk (who's gamma-ray serum, in the Ultimate Universe, was a failed attempt to recreate Dr. Erskine's formula). The ending twist of TFA implies Steve has awakened into a world where the technology he tried to stop has burst loose and corrupted everything. Avengers 2012 is a noticeable pivot point. Ascended Fanboy Man gets martyred and everybody suddenly puts aside their poo poo for The Greater Good.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2018 04:26
|
|